Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

rosends said:

Then you misunderstand what a factual error is. All I did was say that the practice has a place within a belief system so your method of judging based outside of that belief system doesn't work (as clarified in post 74). There is no error in fact.

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playing semantic games is simply a tacit way of admitting that one is wrong. And like it or not my judgement is valid. My statement was correct and stands.

Really? So your statement "It is supposedly done to get rid of the blood from flesh" is factually accurate (though you give no proof)? My objection comes from a study of Judaism (have you learned Gemara Chulin?) So this is not my personal belief but the dictates of the religion whose belief system was the subject of the original post.

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My statement came from the fact that blood is not considered to be kosher, and what I have heard from other Jews. Sadly when one looks into this there appears to be no valid reason why longer, only ritual and superstition.

You have not been able to present a valid reason for this. Nor have I seen anything from any Jewish apologists. Only false claims of anti-Semitism.

Now, again, THIS is projecting as you have started with your personal sense of what is valid and then claimed that the lack of a fact that satisfies YOUR understanding of valid is a truth in the world.

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No, I can justify my beliefs. Apparently you are unable to do so. But you are a master of dodging, ducking, and running.

Shiranui117 said:

Good Lord, that is monstrous.

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Yep. Now at the very start there was a steer stunned with a bolt for traditional western butchery. It went down immediately with no sign of pain. Still not pretty but far better than the torture the others suffered.

Shiranui117 said:

Good Lord, that is monstrous.

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Agreed. Not only should this be banned, the people doing it should be jailed.

David1967 said:

Agreed. Not only should this be banned, the people doing it should be jailed.

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Let's wait until if/when it becomes a crime.

Revoltingest said:

Let's wait until if/when it becomes a crime.

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I agree, ban it and all but a few extremists will drop it.

What bothers me is that both Jews and Muslims appear to have started this as a human approach to butchery. At the time it was the most painless way to accomplish this. Unfortunately for both religions it appears to have picked up needless rituals and an inability to adapt to improvements. I found limited videos of Jewish slaughter houses, but they appear to be almost identical to Muslim practices. It is not painless. It is not as quick as it could be. Both religions have take the idea that animals have to be "perfect" to a ridiculous extent to the point that stunning just before cutting the neck is considered to make the meat "unclean".

Subduction Zone said:

I agree, ban it and all but a few extremists will drop it.

What bothers me is that both Jews and Muslims appear to have started this as a human approach to butchery. At the time it was the most painless way to accomplish this. Unfortunately for both religions it appears to have picked up needless rituals and an inability to adapt to improvements. I found limited videos of Jewish slaughter houses, but they appear to be almost identical to Muslim practices. It is not painless. It is not as quick as it could be. Both religions have take the idea that animals have to be "perfect" to a ridiculous extent to the point that stunning just before cutting the neck is considered to make the meat "unclean".

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I started to post a bunch of thoughts.
But then I realized that it's simple.....
Religion can supersede reason & empathy.

Revoltingest said:

Let's wait until if/when it becomes a crime.

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That would be useful.

shmogie said:

Santeria, an alleged religion,

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I think this sums up christianity pretty nicely.

Ellen Brown said:

LOL, there are places where the honored guest at a dinner is given the brains to eat. Yum.

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Really? I haven't run into that.

Woberts said:

I think this sums up christianity pretty nicely.

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Do you know anything about santeria ?

Revoltingest said:

I started to post a bunch of thoughts.
But then I realized that it's simple.....
Religion can supersede reason & empathy.

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Repulsion caused by emotions and inexperience can cloud judgement.

Just a reflection on my experience. All of this is pretty tame compared to what farmers with livestock have to do.

sooda said:

Really? I haven't run into that.

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A nurse friend of mine who went to Bosnia with NW Medical Teams during the war told me about it.

viole said:

In order to avoid that, I suggest you guys stop practicing barbaric procedures that might have been applicable in the bronze age, but have no place in a modern and secular society.

Suppose I make up, like everybody did, a religion that requires animals to be badly tortured before being eating, and that they should be eaten alive because my made up God says so; do you think I would be justified to accuse people to impinge on my religious rights and accuse them of racism or some other ism?

Ciao

- viole

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There is nothing barbaric in practicing a slaughtering technique that is just as painfree as the common forms used today. Getting knocked on the head is not pain free you know. Study sheching before you put it down. Unconsiousness is within seconds and is practically pain free. It's very purpose is to treat animals kindly.

charlie sc said:

Good. I’m glad they’re banning it.

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So you have no problem with Jews being expelled from these countries?

Shad said:

Slanted article.

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Whatever else may be in the article, these points stand:
1. Jews who are observant must eat only kosher meat, which means (among other things) properly sheched. This method is practically pain free and unconsciousness occurs within seconds. It is designed for its kindness.
2. These countries are in fact outlawing kosher slaughtering.
3. That means that all Jews who are observant are force (once again in history) to leave.

Those three points are without dispute.

IndigoChild5559 said:

So you have no problem with Jews being expelled from these countries?

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No one is expelling Jews.

Subduction Zone said:

playing semantic games is simply a tacit way of admitting that one is wrong. And like it or not my judgement is valid. My statement was correct and stands.

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Labeling something a semantic game is a way of avoiding what was said when one doesn't like that one is shown to be wrong. What you said was factually wrong.

Subduction Zone said:

My statement came from the fact that blood is not considered to be kosher, and what I have heard from other Jews. Sadly when one looks into this there appears to be no valid reason why longer, only ritual and superstition.

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The fact that blood is not kosher is immaterial. Certain fats are also not kosher. That doesn't mean that the method of slaughter is driven by the need to remove the fats.

Subduction Zone said:

You have not been able to present a valid reason for this. Nor have I seen anything from any Jewish apologists. Only false claims of anti-Semitism.

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The question is whether one can provide a valid reason and I guess you are going to ignore your projecting of your own definition of "valid" and then expecting the world to live up to that definition. The reason for what? For the existence of any Jewish law? Simply put, Judaism exists as do its laws. Some have stated reasons, some do not. What you don't like is that the religion has rules that don't make sense to you. This doesn't automatically make them invalid and following them is not irrational. You can try to rename and relabel things to insulate your position but that doesn't make your position any more correct.

Subduction Zone said:

No, I can justify my beliefs. Apparently you are unable to do so. But you are a master of dodging, ducking, and running.

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You have actually not justified any belief, nor is there any cause to justify a belief. This is another phrase which you seem unclear on. Then you descend into more projection (used accurately) -- because you don't like the answer, you decide that it is evasion. This doesn't change the fact that answers were given.

IndigoChild5559 said:

Whatever else may be in the article, these points stand:
1. Jews who are observant must eat only kosher meat, which means (among other things) properly sheched. This method is practically pain free and unconsciousness occurs within seconds. It is designed for its kindness.
2. These countries are in fact outlawing kosher slaughtering.
3. That means that all Jews who are observant are force (once again in history) to leave.

Those three points are without dispute.

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Point three is wrong. They can go without meat. They can realize that their practice was largely superstitious and eat humanely butchered meat instead. They could limit their meat to poultry. It appears that it is mammals that are stunned before butchering.

Subduction Zone said:

I agree, ban it and all but a few extremists will drop it.

What bothers me is that both Jews and Muslims appear to have started this as a human approach to butchery. At the time it was the most painless way to accomplish this. Unfortunately for both religions it appears to have picked up needless rituals and an inability to adapt to improvements. I found limited videos of Jewish slaughter houses, but they appear to be almost identical to Muslim practices. It is not painless. It is not as quick as it could be. Both religions have take the idea that animals have to be "perfect" to a ridiculous extent to the point that stunning just before cutting the neck is considered to make the meat "unclean".

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Again, you are starting in ignorance and making claims without actually knowing. Can you point to "needless rituals" that have been "picked up"? Can you explain what you think "perfect" and "unclean" mean as they relate to Jewish ritual slaughter? You use the words in quotes as if you are quoting something. What?

The Ragin Pagan said:

A stupid attempt at table-turning. Others have given up many things, as outlined in Post #12. Are you (or rather, the government) going to mind your own business over animal sacrifice? What about genital mutilation? Polygamy? Witch hunts? How about when your neighbor starts displaying swastikas?

Thought not.

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To put a humanitarian form of animal slaughter on par of those things above is just a despicable form of moral equivocation.