Bibliolatry

Skwim · May 17, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
There are a subset of Evangelical in my opinion. Not all Evangelical are Fundamentalist in regard to the Bible.

You know, I looked for a break-down of beliefs of both fundamentalists and evangelists, but didn't find any. In fact, it seems "evangelist" is now the more popular term for "fundamentalist"; although, I've traditionally considered evangelists to be those fundamentalists who evangelized; a subset of fundamentalists, as it were.

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Jeremiah Ames · May 17, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
How prevalent do you think Bibliolatry is in the United States, using this definition:

"In Christianity, bibliolatry is used to describe extreme devotion to the Bible or to biblical inerrancy.[3] Supporters of biblical inerrancy point to passages (such as 2 Timothy 3:16–17) interpreted to say that the Bible, as received, is a complete source of what must be known about God."

Bibliolatry - Wikipedia

Much more prevalent than it should be and growing, unfortunately.

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
How prevalent do you think Bibliolatry is in the United States, using this definition:

"In Christianity, bibliolatry is used to describe extreme devotion to the Bible or to biblical inerrancy.[3] Supporters of biblical inerrancy point to passages (such as 2 Timothy 3:16–17) interpreted to say that the Bible, as received, is a complete source of what must be known about God."

Bibliolatry - Wikipedia

It's a poor definition

Idolatry is replacing God with something else.

God said through Moses, quoted by Jesus 'man does not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God' That sort of devotion is Godward and not away from God

Jesus also said 'Sanctify them in the true. Thy word is truth"

If you mean wooden literacy that's a different issue

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

KenS said:
And its not God's words as He moved on people because you say so?

If the authority making a claim is used as the authority to establish that claim as fact, then it is a circular argument. We are not arguing over the truth of the Bible being the word of God, but the means that many use to claim that it is.

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
How prevalent do you think Bibliolatry is in the United States, using this definition:

"In Christianity, bibliolatry is used to describe extreme devotion to the Bible or to biblical inerrancy.[3] Supporters of biblical inerrancy point to passages (such as 2 Timothy 3:16–17) interpreted to say that the Bible, as received, is a complete source of what must be known about God."

Bibliolatry - Wikipedia

I see no proscription in the Bible that says that the Bible is immune from becoming the object through which people break the 1st Commandment. The Bible can be elevated to the status of false idol. I think that demanding that it be considered infallible is the first step.

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
I see no proscription in the Bible that says that the Bible is immune from becoming the object through which people break the 1st Commandment. The Bible can be elevated to the status of false idol. I think that demanding that it be considered infallible is the first step.

If one worshiped or prayed to the Bible that would be true

Jesus and the apostles appear to have believed in plenary inspiration and so being disciplined to studying the bible would even be commanded by God as the Bible is God breathed as per 2 Tim 3:16 "theo pnuestos" God breathed

I take it you don't really see eye to eye with Jesus or the apostles? or am I getting it wrong and you give them all thumbs up?

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
I see no proscription in the Bible that says that the Bible is immune from becoming the object through which people break the 1st Commandment. The Bible can be elevated to the status of false idol. I think that demanding that it be considered infallible is the first step.

"I now commit you to God and to the word of His grace which is able to build you up and give you the inheritance among those who are sanctified" Acts 20:28

Kenny · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
If the authority making a claim is used as the authority to establish that claim as fact, then it is a circular argument. We are not arguing over the truth of the Bible being the word of God, but the means that many use to claim that it is.

OK... but I haven't used circular arguments.

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

KenS said:
OK... but I haven't used circular arguments.

I do not think it was claimed that you had. It is the argument that the Bible claims that the Bible is infallible that is circular. The Bible is cited as the authority establishing its authority. Did you make that argument?

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
"I now commit you to God and to the word of His grace which is able to build you up and give you the inheritance among those who are sanctified" Acts 20:28

You will have to explain how you are using this passage.

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
"I now commit you to God and to the word of His grace which is able to build you up and give you the inheritance among those who are sanctified" Acts 20:28

Are you saying that the Bible cannot be worshiped as a false idol?

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
If one worshiped or prayed to the Bible that would be true

Jesus and the apostles appear to have believed in plenary inspiration and so being disciplined to studying the bible would even be commanded by God as the Bible is God breathed as per 2 Tim 3:16 "theo pnuestos" God breathed

I take it you don't really see eye to eye with Jesus or the apostles? or am I getting it wrong and you give them all thumbs up?

Does worship and prayer only take on one form? People are said to worship money, but I have never seen a group of people circled around a pile of cash, sacrificing lambs to it or calling upon it directly for salvation.

I believe in Christ. I believe I was given an intellect with the intent that I use it. I believe that some people have views that would lead me to have to lie to myself. I do not see what my personal belief has to do with turning the Bible into a false idol. This is done when you consider it to be infallible in total. Not just certain aspects of it, though I suppose that could be taken to worship as well if someone had the desire or ignorance to do it.

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
Are you saying that the Bible cannot be worshiped as a false idol?

I don't know anyone who I would say 'worships the Bible'

It appears Jesus sets a very high bar for the Bible's trustworthiness (in the original manuscripts)
"The scriptures cannot be broken'

Kenny · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
I do not think it was claimed that you had. It is the argument that the Bible claims that the Bible is infallible that is circular. The Bible is cited as the authority establishing its authority. Did you make that argument?

No... I said that I believe in its authority by the veracity of its prophetic statements.

Kenny · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
Are you saying that the Bible cannot be worshiped as a false idol?

i think anything can be used in worship. I remember the rod of Moses that was used to heal those who were bitten by serpents which later had to be destroyed because it was worshipped.

However, since it does have the words that were recorded that God said, it does help build relationships as much as my letters to and fro from my wife to be (years ago) were used to build relationship.

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
I don't know anyone who I would say 'worships the Bible'

I see anyone that claims the Bible is infallible as taking the first step to doing that. The Bible is a book written by men. Men are not infallible. There are many on here that routinely trash the work of men in the form of science, claiming that it is not infallible.

There are numerous inconsistencies and errors in the Bible that are well established, though many have sought various means to deny that, they remain. Anyone that has the courage to point this out is often persecuted and labeled as not a true Christian, though I would say they are honoring their belief by recognizing those flaws. And they are clearly not making a false idol of the Bible.

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
I don't know anyone who I would say 'worships the Bible'

Dan From Smithville said:
You will have to explain how you are using this passage.

I am using it in context. Paul tells them there will be false teachers and the way to protect themselves is being built up in the word

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

KenS said:
No... I said that I believe in its authority by the veracity of its prophetic statements.

I accept that you believe and the reason you believe. Personally, I have doubts about the validity and accuracy of some of the prophetic claims of the Bible, but their validity has no impact on my belief.

whirlingmerc · May 17, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
I see anyone that claims the Bible is infallible as taking the first step to doing that. The Bible is a book written by men. Men are not infallible. There are many on here that routinely trash the work of men in the form of science, claiming that it is not infallible.

There are numerous inconsistencies and errors in the Bible that are well established, though many have sought various means to deny that, they remain. Anyone that has the courage to point this out is often persecuted and labeled as not a true Christian, though I would say they are honoring their belief by recognizing those flaws. And they are clearly not making a false idol of the Bible.

There are many apparent contradictions that when examined have explanations.
There are also many cases of a superficial first look appears there is a problem and on closer examination there is no problem.

There is also a matter of the gospels not being written in the style of photographic American journalism but by writers moved by God with a main points to make where sometimes details are left off because it doesn't serve the point at hand. That is not a contradiction but a literary style

Dan From Smithville · May 17, 2019

whirlingmerc said:
I am using it in context. Paul tells them there will be false teachers and the way to protect themselves is being built up in the word

OK. I see. I do not see how this means that the Bible cannot be raised to a false idol though.

Bibliolatry

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