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Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
After the heart has pumped out as much as possible, the animal is hung so that most of the rest drains by gravity. Even after it is all cut and packaged, it is still treated in the home to remove as much blood as possible.
And cattle that are butchered using modern methods are hung so that the blood drains as well. My point was the claim that the heart pumps the blood out does not hold water since that is not necessary. It will drain regardless of method of hung properly.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
In what way. The animal passes out and dies. This is less cruel than having a spike driven into its head.

Kosher slaughtering knives are sharpened after nearly every slaughter. The blade has be be sharp enough and without nicks so that when it is drawn across a fingernail

If you want to read up on kosher slaughter and some of the controversy, here:

Shechita - Wikipedia
I would suggest watching some of the videos on YouTube. Granted, a bolt might not hit home. But when both are done properly the bolt method is more humane.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I am seriously interested, how does one justify that a person must eat meat? I am not saying that those are your beliefs, but I am curious.

If I had to guess, it is connected with the rituals of the Temple in which the offerer was required to eat a portion of the sacrifice. Priests had to eat meat as well because certain portions were theirs by law and had to be eaten within a certain time period.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
I would suggest watching some of the videos on YouTube. Granted, a bolt might not hit home. But when both are done properly the bolt method is more humane.

I have seen some videos of "kosher" slaughtering houses where the esophagus was ripped out of a living animal. That would not be acceptable and was decried by the Jewish community as animal cruelty.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Correct, the evidence proves it beyond a reasonable doubt.
If you decide on the standard of proof, then no doubt, you feel that what you consider evidence proves something and any contrary set of standards is unreasonable. Self serving, but internally consistent.

Now that is a non sequitur. And I am sorry, but it is a DIR. You appear to be very literal in aspects of your interpretation.
Only a non sequitur if you can't follow basic logic and if you don't know the rules of the DIR.


And that of any rational thinker.
Well, at least the way YOU define it -- complying with your system of understanding and reaching the conclusion which you have decided is necessary.

No, we could leave it up for judgement. You have to go with your literal interpretation and I will base mine on rational thought.
I like how you slip in "literal interpretation" there as if it doesn't introduce two fatal flaws to your statement. But whatever works for you.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you decide on the standard of proof, then no doubt, you feel that what you consider evidence proves something and any contrary set of standards is unreasonable. Self serving, but internally consistent.


Only a non sequitur if you can't follow basic logic and if you don't know the rules of the DIR.



Well, at least the way YOU define it -- complying with your system of understanding and reaching the conclusion which you have decided is necessary.


I like how you slip in "literal interpretation" there as if it doesn't introduce two fatal flaws to your statement. But whatever works for you.

So much projection. You should not play coy. One can only draw reasonable conclusions about your beliefs that you appear to be ashamed of. If you want to make claims and try to support them then fine. Otherwise you have no valid complaint if people judge you by what you post.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
So much projection. You should not play coy. One can only draw reasonable conclusions about your beliefs that you appear to be ashamed of. If you want to make claims and try to support them then fine. Otherwise you have no valid complaint if people judge you by what you post.
I'm happy to have people judge me by what I post. I have not come here and made erroneous claims about Judaism or made statements about some phantom morality which needs be superior. If you are comfortable with your errors, factual and logical then so be it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm happy to have people judge me by what I post. I have not come here and made erroneous claims about Judaism or made statements about some phantom morality which needs be superior. If you are comfortable with your errors, factual and logical then so be it.
Nor have I. But then you are projecting again.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Nor have I. But then you are projecting again.
You keep on using that word. I do not think that that word means what you think it means.
Just as a single, easy to point out example, you argued from a false premise (post 41) which constituted both an error in logic and factual knowledge. Now, if you claim that I am projecting, show me my error in fact; it should be simple.

As a side note, the proper example of "projecting" would be your use of the phrase "false religious value" in post 64. You are projecting your opinion onto an act and starting with the premise that your vision of true and false is the proper one.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You keep on using that word. I do not think that that word means what you think it means.
Just as a single, easy to point out example, you argued from a false premise (post 41) which constituted both an error in logic and factual knowledge. Now, if you claim that I am projecting, show me my error in fact; it should be simple.
Of course I do.

The problem is that you have tried to support an outdated method of butchery with all sorts of detours instead of handling the problem rationally.

And there was no false premise in post 41. You objected to it for your own personal belief, but you could never give a valid reason. If you have problems understanding it I can help you to understand. The simple fact is that there is no valid reason to use the methods set out in your religion.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Of course I do.

The problem is that you have tried to support an outdated method of butchery with all sorts of detours instead of handling the problem rationally.
Then you misunderstand what a factual error is. All I did was say that the practice has a place within a belief system so your method of judging based outside of that belief system doesn't work (as clarified in post 74). There is no error in fact.
And there was no false premise in post 41. You objected to it for your own personal belief, but you could never give a valid reason.
Really? So your statement "It is supposedly done to get rid of the blood from flesh" is factually accurate (though you give no proof)? My objection comes from a study of Judaism (have you learned Gemara Chulin?) So this is not my personal belief but the dictates of the religion whose belief system was the subject of the original post.
The simple fact is that there is no valid reason to use the methods set out in your religion.
Now, again, THIS is projecting as you have started with your personal sense of what is valid and then claimed that the lack of a fact that satisfies YOUR understanding of valid is a truth in the world.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Christians are not allowed to legally pursue their misgivings regarding witches. Mormons are unable to practice polygamy. American Hindus have all but had to abandon holy symbols of theirs that resemble swastikas too closely. Pagans are unable to make animal sacrifices. Voudonists often encounter the same, and are unable to sacrifice and prepare food as their faith outlines.

I am sure there are many more, those are merely off the top of my head. Judaism is not special among them, and this issue of how animals are slaughtered is a belief, nothing more. They can do without it.
Santeria, an alleged religion, continues animal sacrifices.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
This might need to be taken down. The video shows what happens to a cow when it is stunned, the results are instantaneous, and what happens in halal butchery. I have seen other videos and they are not much better:


I am sorry, but we can do much better than that today. There is no need for such suffering.

EDIT: I am thinking now that I have to agree with @viole
Good Lord, that is monstrous.
 
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