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Before god

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

My understanding is man was always man and religion has always existed if not in this world then another. There is a hell of a lot we don’t know yet so I’m going with the belief that man always existed either or on another planet. I don’t believe we are the only beings in creation capable of believing in God.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Well since you are clueless about nature good or yourself other than what you have read somewhere ......no.
No im clueless about what you wrote, since you merely made a series of claims without any explanations with the assumption that you are correct. And since you did not explain what you meant, I wanted to give you the possibility to elaborate. Which you clearly can't or wont. Which is fine, if that is how you "argue" your case.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?
To me, all religion is an attempt to try and explain how we may have gotten here and what we should do and, generally speaking, I tend to believe most of the time it's been an honest attempt. And if you read "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts, you'll see where I'm coming from on that.
 

Dan Mellis

Thorsredballs
My understanding is man was always man and religion has always existed if not in this world then another. There is a hell of a lot we don’t know yet so I’m going with the belief that man always existed either or on another planet. I don’t believe we are the only beings in creation capable of believing in God.[/QUOTE

Well... I don't know if I should even start to unpack that! Good luck to you!
 

Dan Mellis

Thorsredballs
To me, all religion is an attempt to try and explain how we may have gotten here and what we should do and, generally speaking, I tend to believe most of the time it's been an honest attempt. And if you read "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts, you'll see where I'm coming from on that.

I think I agree :)
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?
What would be the point of God revealing himself earlier?
Even ancient Israel had great difficulty obeying God -and he also stopped dealing directly with them until there is again reason to do so.

The reason God wants to be obeyed must be considered.
His goal is reproduction of his perfect nature in many "gods" -the children of God -of which Christ is "the firstborn of many brethren". The purpose for that is to eventually give them the entire creation -including "the heavens" which were "formed to be inhabited" -so that love and creativity will increase forever.

Before that can happen, we must gain experience and be purified -and before that, God needed to bring us to the point of benefitting from such.

Very little is written about God's history before the earth, but working backward logically, there was a time when all of this developed in his imagination -followed by step-by-step creation.

It would also be more likely that God (I AM THAT AM) developed rather than simply always existing as a complex creator (though still eternal as he would essentially always have been the sum of that which exists).
Until he was specifically able to create beings who consider things as he does -to plan and design us -explaining them would make little sense, etc., etc.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

I believe that I and others have had an experience of like kind to that described as the experience of Abram/Abraham and that in line with your OP this sort of experience is one basis of the modern Abrahamic monotheism. I understand such experiences as having objective value at the level of human psychology.

Prior to this I believe that we humans projected our fear of and respect for the powers of the world into imaginal animals and other living beings. In doing so we could individually and as a group relate to these consequential dimensions of our human experience in ways as personal and intimate as we do with each other socially. To relate socially to the great power(s) is to be able to accommodate to them in a way that brings us some measure of peace and satisfaction.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
This is more directed towards theists who accept that humans evolved from apes etc - the answer from creationists seems obvious.

There was a time where religion hadn't really been formed as we recognise it today - especially monotheism.

My question is, in those ancient times as homosapiens were taking their first steps as a species the notion of a god hadn't necessarily been concieved. If thats the case, how would you reconcile this with your faith?

Millenia passed without reference to judaism or a singular god. Its most likely we worshipped the sun and moon. We can see similar (not the same) things in native american/amazonian tribalism which is a reasonable analogy to human prehistoric society.

If god is omnipresent and eternal, how could it be that there was a time that people didn't subscribe to the god of abraham?

Modern humans have two centers of consciousness; the inner self and the ego. The inner self is much older. The inner self is connected to DNA, biology, human nature and natural selection.

The ego center is relatively new and consolidated in recent times. My guess is the ego is only about 10,000 years old and finally consolidate around the time of the first civilizations. The question of before God, addresses the time when humans only had the inner self; one center. The formation of the secondary or the ego center coincides with conscious awareness of God.

When humans only had the inner self, they were not self aware, but rather acted on instinct. The inner self is not about choice and free will. It is optimized to long standing instinctive compulsions. To these humans, God was not conscious, in the ego sense, since there was no distinction between their choices and the will of God, since God and instinct, overlapped; paradise.

The formation of the ego, created a secondary POV, that was different from the inner self. This new ego or secondary center had choice and will power. This allowed choices that could violate instinct. This created an unconscious repression of the inner self, leading to an awareness of the inner self, through it's balancing output, needed to compensate for ego choices. This repression and compensation is when awareness of God appears.

In the story of Adam and Eve, they lived in paradise until they were able to make the choice to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of God and evil. The initially had only the inner self. They acted on natural impulses. Their instinct or God said to avoid the tree of knowledge, but the ego, as the secondary center, had the ability to make an alternate choice.

After they eat, they now feel self conscious in an ego sense; naked. They had always been naked, but since this had been natural; inner self, they were never aware they were naked; one center. The ego choice causes a repression, that induced the inner self to compensate, but in a way that is different from pure instinct. This makes them aware of this unusual choice by the inner self, that is different from their ego choice and from natural instinct.

Before the ego consolidated, human consciousness had a metastable ego state; 10,000 year ago and somewhat earlier. This metastable ego would come and go; loss of soul. The ego is a offshoot of the inner self, and the inner self initially formed prototype egos and then aborted them; R&D type process of natural selection. This transition state would be conscious as periodic hallucinations and visions. These would create awareness of things that are not part of sensory reality and instinct; imagination and periodic self awareness.

The formation of the universe in Genesis, appears to be connected to the ego consolidation, when ego consciousness become aware of the world, based on its secondary POV, that is different from the needs of the inner self. The inner self does not need a theory for cosmology, since it is immersed in creation as a living extension. Theory is more needed by the ego, who is trying to find his way back home; tree of life.
 
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