osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I have never seen such diagrams. If it aint too much trouble, sure, im interested!
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Is death the end of it all?
- Thread starter natasha levchenko
- Start date
I have never seen such diagrams. If it aint too much trouble, sure, im interested!
dingdao
The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching
I DIDN'T SAY THAT. I did not propose any theories to explain the quirkiness of QM.
I said that QM may prove interesting in the future.
I do trust empirical evidence base on personal experience...but I also know when I ought to consider distrusting it (just for example, when I'm coming out from under a general anaesthetic). I think it is extremely important to consider the work of endless numbers of neuroscientists (like Dr. Oliver Sacks, "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat") who have all provided a tremendous body of work that shows how the human brain can deceive itself. Just look up the word anosognosia, for example, hemispatial neglect. Or (meaning no disrespect) any number of mental disorders.
I'm trying to say, delicately, that "empirical evidence based on personal experience" is not always reliable, and sometimes quite remarkably unreliable.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
I cherish the notion my atoms will continue to benefit life; I'm an organ donor.
Well here some evidence suggesting consciousness can exist without a functioning brain: Afterlife Evidence
We are actually interpenetrating physical, etheric, astral and mental bodies (unique for each person). These bodies our animated by an individual soul (in humans) on the Causal plane. As thought originates on the mental plane in the mental body unique to each person (like the physical body is unique to each person) there is generally no sharing of thoughts except that some telepathy between individuals can occur through the mental-thought plane.
Yet, the simple question remains: "what does any of this have to do with the fact that you are conscious...that if your wife slaps you upside the head, you'll feel it and get pretty danged miffed?)
You have made zero connection between the consciousness that you enjoy, and any other dimensions, plans, turnips or mystic bupkiss.
siti
Well-Known Member
You said:
On what logic do you base this conclusion? If such additional dimensions exist, "where" do they exist? Are they part of physical reality or not? Is there any reason to assume that because additional dimensions are involved/required to properly explain some aspects of reality, that they are not still dependent on what happens in the 4-dimensions of space-time that we already know about?
You said:
So how - without "next-to-useless" space-time-limited physics - do you propose we might be able to 'prove' that there really are more than 4 dimensions? Or prove any of the string theory mythologies to be "the reality"? Notwithstanding those problems, even if you prove there are indeed 11 or 26 or how ever many dimensions are required even to make the math - let alone anything in a real world experiment - work, you still have to answer the question of whether there is any reason to assume that the consciousness that you may (perhaps) then have proven to be something that requires several additional dimensions to function is not still critically dependent on what happens in our space-time-limited bodies.
So you might not be saying "I'm inserting woo-woo", but that is what you are doing. As far as we can possibly tell, consciousness is something that arises in physical reality where there is a functional biological organism with a functional brain. There is zero verifiable evidence in favour of the idea that consciousness (still less personal consciousness) can or ever has existed where there was no living body involved.
When they can replicate one, not more than one, only a single one, just one more than zero of the episodes, I will pay some attention.
It is something of a tautology to suggest that anything that happens exactly once, no matter how seemingly miraculous or inexplicable, may yet be of natural cause...but because it only happened the once, that can never be demonstrated.
One of the things that those who seem to long for supernatural or mystical notions to be true is that they cling tenaciously to the, really quite incredibly, few examples that they can dig up. For all of the natural things that science believes, however, these things can be replicated at bloody nauseum, thousands, millions, trillions of times.
It's an interesting question to me, why some people are so much more fascinated (and willing to believe) unexplained (but possibly explainable) single events, while ignoring the perfectly mundane multiplicity of events and evidence that really suggest those events are more than likely to be explicable, if we could just have another look.
Just give me one demonstration of any of that, please. Otherwise, I must assume you've made a statement which not only cannot be demonstrated, but is also very apparently false. Just for example, could you provide evidence of some differentiation between the "physical, etheric, astral and mental bodies (unique for each person)." And having done so, some evidence for a differentiation between a "causal plane" and a "mental plane." So far as I am aware, these are constructs not supported by any science whatever.
It’s hard for me to think you really looked at the link from those comments. There is a wide variety of topics covered each with many cases. In the human history it is reasonable to extrapolate thousands/millions/billions of events suggesting consciousness beyond the physical brain. And they all dovetail to an explanatory model.
These things exist in dimensions (4th, 5th, 6th...) not directly detectable by the physical senses and instruments (like 95% of the matter in the universe). The impact on the physical is what we call 'paranormal' events. In addition those with gifted sensitivities to the higher planes can tell us more of the constitution of these higher dimensions.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Death is no more than a Change.
When times are good, we sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we have to think, study, analyze, plan,etc, and learn so much on the path to resolution. People take adversity personally. After enough of it, learning becomes impossible. This is one of the reasons death exists in the first place. Another reason is the variety different lives supply.
When one dies one goes to God to experience God's Unconditional Love. It is a Love that feels so good,so complete one would do anything for it. This shows us that it has never ever been about punishment. This Love wipes all the hurt, possible anger and hate that existed. We are open again.
Being with God, we want to be just like God. We see where we are and where we need to be. We judge ourselves.
Who knows how long one basks in God's Unconditional Love? At some point kiddies must go back to school so one is born into a new physical body.
If you want to get a glimpse of God, visit the very young for they have just left God's arms. See the reflection.
Worry not. Everyone already knows God. The experience will be Glorious. God is at a Higher Level. There is no wrath, anger, blame,intimidation, coercion, controlling or hate of any kind. There is only Unconditional Love. A funny thing: Names will not be needed or used. Everyone already knows who everyone is.
So many religions picture a God who demands from us, but they do not have a clue. Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. This physical world and universe is not for God. It exists for us. The time-based causality of the universe is perfect for learning.
The Fear of Death exists for a very good reason. If the fear did not exist, too many would exit their lesson when things got tough. Resolution not running brings the answers.
We are Spiritual Beings in our true nature. I won't go into details but I have direct experience to this. Our physical bodies are no more than our transportation.
Hope this Helps.
Jollybear
Hey
Just like it takes effort to give birth to a baby in this world and a careful process must take place to deliver the baby safe and sound so it comes into this world alive, then sever its umbilical cord, likewise, the soul or conciousness after it leaves the dead body and gets delivered to the spirit world, also has a silver cord, it also must go through a transitional phase and survive safe and sound.
dingdao
The eternal Tao cannot be told - Tao Te Ching
Here we are arguing about an afterlife, try statistically significant similarities, when we have not even proved consciousness. Or for that matter thought.
Right now, the only proof is to yourself. If you have an NDE, ask about something you don't know and where to find the proof. So, it's a meta-proof.
@siti consider this your answer.
Whatever it is, I'm quite sure it doesn't involve a "plane."
Dan Mellis
Thorsredballs
Except that we can damage our brain in such a way that we can have two seperate consciousnesses.
I also like the water's wetness analogy to explain consciousness. One water molecule is not wet, but a whole bunch of them acting together gains that quality. A similar thing can be said about brain cells and conscious thought.
Dan Mellis
Thorsredballs
I'd only trust evidence available to all, personally. Personal experience is unreliable because even if you honestly believe you have experienced something, you could be mistaken. For example, I had issues with sleep paralysis for some time. One of the things that can happen is vivid hallucinations that are entirely convincing. I used to see a figure stood at the end of the bed and knew that it was holding me down with its mind.
At the time, I could have sworn up and down it was real. When I woke up properly, I understood that I had been suffering from sleep paralysis and the hallucinations that sometimes accompany it.
However, had I not known about the symptoms of sleep paralysis, I could have quite easily thought there was an entity in the room. I could have told everyone about it, described the figure in detail, roughly how long it stayed etc. However, although I may have honestly believed this to be the case, if I had set up a camera I'd have seen nothing.
That example isnt great because it doesnt really allow for corroborating accounts, but multiple people can see the same thing and come to the same wrong conclusion about the cause, especially if they have preconcieved ideas about what supernatural cause to be on the lookout for.
The important thing to note is that these people would be entirely honest in their recounting of that event. They 100% believe what they saw and why it happened. That doesnt make them correct.
That leaves the only reliable evidence to be that of a good scientific standard - the observed events that have been thoroughly investigated to identify the cause and the empirical, objectively verifiably evidence.
Dan Mellis
Thorsredballs
If this were the case, how would you define a soul?
When the term soul was originally coined it literally meant person. Later, it was narrowed down to generally mean that person's sense of self. Can we get past that? Is there another step we an even take?
I've had this belief since about 1970. There are many who speak and write about this from a few Christians to Hindus and to those holding no particular religious belief. It for example gives a framework to "as ye sow, so shall ye reap" from the Bible but that's only one such source.
I came to it as part of my awakening to the question of something beyond the material. My thoughts went something like "If there is a merciful and just God, then there has to be mercy and justice". Eternal damnation is not merciful. Escaping the consequences of one's deeds is not justice.
What satisfied me intellectually is a past life review when the deeds of a past life are reviewed. Positive lives result in intense happiness which is called by some heaven. Negatives lives result in intense unhappiness which is called hell. But neither are really eternal but subjectively seem so.
One the lessons of the life just lived are absorbed, the soul takes another birth to try to put those lessons into action. And the balancing in the body can come in many ways. If I kill someone, I don't necessarily have to be killed in a future life; I could save the life of the person I killed, for example.