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Why Predudices are so dangerous?

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Is the point you wish to make that predudices can fuel very wrong choices?

I personally see to bring Nazi into the conversation, it also brings in some of the most destructive predudices we can have. Thus for this OP it would be used only to show how destructive predudices are.

Regards Tony
The question is the cost of a Type One Error vs. the cost of a Type Two Error, recognizing that the costs of both have not been constant over the history of the human species and are almost never equal.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The question is the cost of a Type One Error vs. the cost of a Type Two Error, recognizing that the costs of both have not been constant over the history of the human species and are almost never equal.

How about we mitigate cost by trying to make no type 1 or 2 errors. :)

Lets be constant in virtues and it starts with each of us.

Regards Tony
 

siti

Well-Known Member
It is worth considering, that if you have Faith in God, that you may also not be free of prejudice
Seems to me that if you have faith in God you are, by definition, holding a prejudiced view...a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience... unless you happen to have met him in person of course. You haven't, have you? Anyway, since you have posted this topic in a religious debate forum, and since you have quoted one of your founders as highlighting theological prejudices, perhaps we should think about how we might overcome one of the most obvious theological prejudices - the assumption of monotheism - i.e. that there exists a supernatural and personal creator of the universe. That is definitely a prejudice because there is no objective evidence available to support it. And it has certainly been the cause of millennia of divisiveness among the human family.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
You are confused.

The statement you made that I disagreed with was: "Fairness is a positive bias." That's not possible. Biases are unfair.

Earlier, I agreed with you that biases can be positive or negative. I gave you an example of the mother of the rapist (positive bias) and the father of the victim (negative bias). Both are biased therefore we ignore them if justice is what we want in sentencing.

Biases send good judgments off course. I'm not biased in favor of killing in lawful self-defense unless I, and most humans who agree are wrong. The pacifist has created his own moral rule to conflict with conscience and the judgment of most humans. That rule caused a bias in his judgment and sent it off course. He's wrong.

I get it now. Sorry that I missed it.
Okay, here it is. Yes, fairness is a bias, but neither a positive nor a negative one. Let me explain with an example from education, two positions:

All children in the same class should get the same teaching at the same time and in the same manner.
Versus
We should differentiate between them.

Which is fair and which is unfair? It depends on the given bias of an person and no, you can't decide it with evidence, because the 2 sides can't decide on what evidence is and they can't decide on what reason tells them
This is a cut to the bone example, but that overall problem runs through modern western education literature. In the end, how ought we teach the children and what is fair to do?
One person's fairness in another person unfairness.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
First, since the word “prejudice” seems to be distracting people from the issue that concerns me, I want to say what the issue is for me. The issue for me is alienation between people, and people hardening their hearts against other people, across various lines they draw in their minds between themselves and other people, and people making excuses for themselves, for doing that. The only way that I think it will ever change, and I think it is already happening and will continue happening, is for more and more people to presume that they are doing that themselves, whether they see themselves doing it or not, and to work continually to free themselves from it, never imagining that their work on that is finished.

Stereotyping can have harmful effects even when it is not associated with alienation and people hardening their hearts. I think that will change the same way.

Science in a sense back you up. https://www.simplypsychology.org/kohlberg.html
In essence ethics is to find general principles but also recognize that we are all different and all our "rules" are arbitrary, so look out for a general rule, who works for most, but still hurt some.
Most people are social and think in a "we" and the rest, "them" don't matter. That is group psychology; in- and out-groups.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Seems to me that if you have faith in God you are, by definition, holding a prejudiced view...a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

I see the opposite is required to find Faith in God, no preconceived ideas or prejudices.

Regards Tony
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Very much so. The Message of Christ, to me, was to show us that love is all encompasing. The only way to know how great is this love, is to be immersed in a matrix that develops the understanding. God knows all our thoughts and what we will choose, thus there is nothing we face that can not help us grow the required spiritual limbs.

It could very well be that nothing can happen to us, that an individual as part of humanity has in the past inflicted upon a Messenger from God. We are never teates beyond our capacity.

Now it gets complicated, how much are we willing to let go of what is this material world, to give all we can back to our fellow human family? To do this we require what is Godly and that is all the virtues, our spiritual limbs required to progress in all the worlds of God.

One would be a fool to say they have grasped any idea of what is to come and I see NDE events as a gift for all to consider, as long as we underatand that any explanation of those events will be clouded in material thought.

It is a topic that can not be exhausted and has many facets, I always wish you well and happy in this journey of life. Regards Tony
You have given me a convoluted piece of advice that I am still trying to grapple with as to what you are trying to convey. If God loves me, why does He see me suffer physically and mentally in what I see as State-organised persecution especially through the manipulation of the mental health services of the State. If He still loves me He cannot at the same time love my persecutors can He? Perhaps it is a different God to what Baha'u'llah found and is certainly a different God to what the Christians believe in as Love incarnate. Are you sure you know God? what spiritual limbs are required to connect with your God. And why bring in NDE into the argument. It seems to me that you have given me what I describe as word salad because you are not able to address the issue of who God loves, when and why.
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I see the opposite is required to find Faith in God, no preconceived ideas or prejudices.
OK then - without any preconceived ideas or prejudices, how did you reach the conclusion that there exists a monotheistic supernatural and personal God? What unprejudiced evidence (i.e. evidence arising from logical reason and objective evidence) led you to that conclusion? Examining an example of how someone has genuinely risen above prejudice to reach such an important conclusion will surely help us to answer the question of why prejudices are so dangerous - clearly, if you are right, it is prejudice that prevents so many of us from seeing it - isn't it?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Not my bias, I am a centrist. The point is demonstrated by the data. If you are unfamiliar with the field you should hit the books before flapping the gums.

If that were true you would of easily pointed out the Left's fearmongering as well. You didn't.You wouldn't be placed all your fish in the left's basket as the people "needed" All you are doing is placing part of the political spectrum upon a pedestal without warrant then denouncing people that do not follow group-think of the left.

That has more to do with your biases that place positives on the prefrontal mediated phenomena and negatives on those mediated by the amygdala. Those are solely your judgements, but I do find your judgements revealing ... they lead me to suspect that you'd like to be a leftie ... but can't seem to figure out how to do so.

No it isn't as I acknowledge it from both sides while you could only point out one side.

The fiction is your head is wrong. Try again.
 
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Sapiens

Polymathematician
If that were true you would of easily pointed out the Left's fearmongering as well. You didn't.You wouldn't be placed all your fish in the left's basket as the people "needed" All you are doing is placing part of the political spectrum upon a pedestal without warrant then denouncing people that do not follow group-think of the left.



No it isn't as I acknowledge it from both sides while you could only point out one side.

The fiction is your head is wrong. Try again.

I wrote:
I think that the real point is being entirely missed. Prejudice is often part and parcel of a suite of attributes: Conservatism, Fear Based Thinking, and other processes mediated by the amygdala. At the other end of the spectrum is more Liberal Thought, experimentation, exploration and other processes handled by the prefrontal lobe. A successful community requires input from members who fall all along that line.

You should see that your posts make assumptions that are not contained in my posts, you are arguing with yourself.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
OK then - without any preconceived ideas or prejudices, how did you reach the conclusion that there exists a monotheistic supernatural and personal God? What unprejudiced evidence (i.e. evidence arising from logical reason and objective evidence) led you to that conclusion? Examining an example of how someone has genuinely risen above prejudice to reach such an important conclusion will surely help us to answer the question of why prejudices are so dangerous - clearly, if you are right, it is prejudice that prevents so many of us from seeing it - isn't it?

I had no Faith. I was given the chance to look at the Message of Baha'u'llah and accepted, I read the explanations.

Then I took up His challenge and found He was trustworthy and trueful.

I then accepted what He offered in 1984.

It has been a rocky ride :)

Regards Tony
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I had no Faith. I was given the chance to look at the Message of Baha'u'llah and accepted, I read the explanations.

Then I took up His challenge and found He was trustworthy and trueful.

I then accepted what He offered in 1984.

It has been a rocky ride :)

Regards Tony
So no unprejudiced evidence then - you just took his word for it and went from there?
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Why are predudices so dangerous?

This topic is raised as it appears most of the conlict in the world and apparent in RF debates, comes about by predudices built on many aspects of life.

I see that is a sound and fair comment.

The base human rights one should use when posting on this topic is the United Nations 'UNIVERSAL DECLARATION
OF HUMAN RIGHTS'.

It can be read here;

Universal Declaration of Human Rights - Wikisource, the free online library

The Preamble starts;

"Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,..."

Article 1 states;

"...All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood...."

So as all have these rights, it is should be obvious that what we need to address is actions against those rights. The danger is whan we do not act.

So now we can ask, what would be a view that is based on Predudice?

How can humanity act to ensure all have those rights, ensuring predudice is not the motivating factor?

Regards Tony

Not sure what you mean by the question of:

"So now we can ask, what would be a view that is based on Predudice?"

That covers a lot of ground, could you be more specific?

As to your other question of:

"How can humanity act to ensure all have those rights, ensuring predudice is not the motivating factor?"

Try seeing the world like I do.

During my first time in Heaven (NDE) God had shown me that out of matter he made all of the life forms, and all the different life forms are made for the containers of all the souls. And the appearance, size, shape, etc., of all the different life forms doesn't matter, it's the soul inside that matters. So I am poor at telling the difference of all the different nationalities, ethnic groups, or however most people categorize "others", as I don't see any "others", everyone is just another life form, another soul, all in various stages of trying to figure this world out and what it's all about.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
I see that a dangerous predudice is that of attributing the actions of a few to a whole group.

A good example of this is the thread 'Why is Islam so dangerous". It attributes dangerous terrorists acts of a few, to a majority.

It would be more beneficial to ask 'why Terrorism is so dangerous'.

The answer could be that it is built upon extreme predudices held by individuals, that can attract and influence a weak minority of followers.

Regards Tony

EXACTLY!

I'm glad that SOMEBODY gets it!

Like every day there are many THOUSANDS of white people out doing horrific things to one another, but if a Muslim, Latino, or a Black person, does something, all the bigots go around screaming "SEE, how evil they ALL are!!!!" "This PROVES that "I" was right all along!!!"

But to me when they make such hateful bigoted proclamations, is that the ONLY thing it proves is that they are complete bigoted idiots.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
During my first time in Heaven (NDE) God had shown me that out of matter he made all of the life forms, and all the different life forms are made for the containers of all the souls. And the appearance, size, shape, etc., of all the different life forms doesn't matter, it's the soul inside that matters. So I am poor at telling the difference of all the different nationalities, ethnic groups, or however most people categorize "others", as I don't see any "others", everyone is just another life form, another soul, all in various stages of trying to figure this world out and what it's all about.

You may enjoy reading this, it is called the 'Tablet of the Universe'. You will note it mentioned that God 'contained' creation by using a Universal attractive force.

Tablet of the Universe

Regards Tony
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I see It it was Gods Word I accepted.
But that is exactly what I am talking about - you complain about "prejudice" and then claim - with absolutely no objective supporting evidence or convincing logical proof to support the claim - that the scriptures you accept are actually "God's word". That IS a prejudiced view because by definition it means anyone who thinks or believes differently from what your scriptures say is at odds with God - and therefore wrong - regardless of how carefully reasoned and supported by actual evidence their thoughts might be. I honestly don't expect you to understand this, but this kind of unreasoning and unsupported allegiance to preconceived creeds and doctrines is part of the problem, not the solution.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But that is exactly what I am talking about - you complain about "prejudice" and then claim - with absolutely no objective supporting evidence or convincing logical proof to support the claim - that the scriptures you accept are actually "God's word". That IS a prejudiced view because by definition it means anyone who thinks or believes differently from what your scriptures say is at odds with God - and therefore wrong - regardless of how carefully reasoned and supported by actual evidence their thoughts might be. I honestly don't expect you to understand this, but this kind of unreasoning and unsupported allegiance to preconceived creeds and doctrines is part of the problem, not the solution.

This I see is a wrong conclusion, as I see nobody has to accept what Baha'u'llah offered, or what God has ever offered through and other Messenger. All are free to follow what they find. I hold no predudice to any other persons choices.

Each of those Messages stand on their own merit, they need no acceptance by me or any of us, they are the Truth or they are not. If they are the Truth, then life will take the direction they have offered, even without us knowing. If they are not the Truth, then they will not inspire any change in our behavior and will be forgotten. Thus logically there is no predudice in any of God Messages, if they have lasted, then they are based in reason and Truth.

I can see we have used them as a base for our own prejudices.

Regards Tony
 
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