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Top Ten Reasons Why Jesus is Not God

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
That isn't Biblical. And Jesus is in the Bible, associated with the Bible.

Well yeah, but the Judeo-Christian Bible isn't the 'scripture' we follow. We vehemently reject the anthropomorphic pagan depictions implied through out your scripture, this is quite open knowledge. At the same time, you're free to dislike that we do.

Your deity concept is thusly different from the Biblical god.

If you want to say that, then fine, I guess. However quite a large majority of Jews would disagree with you, within the "OT" (Tanakh).

We would call that a 'different god', regardless of your obfuscation and arguments, claiming it is the same god.

I never made such claims. However if you've followed by conversation with Luis through those three pages, you'd gather that we Muslims believe in a nondualistic God, which is transcendent and which's Uncity is pure and perfect in all essence.
But at the same time, I don't have much of an issue taking your anthropomorphized interpretation of The Lord as a leaf from the tree (albeit, a flawed one).

I haven't exactly proselyted you to leave Christianity or to stop believing in the Trinity, have I?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
TRINITY LIFE CHURCH LEICESTER – SMITH WIGGLESWORTH FALSE ...
https://bewareofthewolves.blogspot.com/2014/10/trinity-life-church-leicester-great-end...
Oct 23, 2014 · TRINITY LIFE CHURCH LEICESTER – SMITH WIGGLESWORTH FALSE REVIVAL.

His daughter Alice, who assisted at his meetings, was never healed of deafness.

His wife Polly was not healed of the sickness that took her life as a young woman in 1913, and his son died two years later from the sickness that took him away in childhood.

There were plenty of people who were healed. You didn't mention those.

God decides who gets healed. We don't always know why some are and some aren't. The Apostle Paul had a condition God refused to heal and the reason was to keep Paul humble.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
There were plenty of people who were healed. You didn't mention those.

God decides who gets healed. We don't always know why some are and some aren't. The Apostle Paul had a condition God refused to heal and the reason was to keep Paul humble.

He was a con artist......
 

InChrist

Free4ever
So God needed blood sacrifice? The ancient Romans and Greeks also make blood sacrifices to their gods.

hecatomb
God does not need blood sacrifice or need anything. Humans on the other hand need to know there is a penalty for sin and it is death, loss of eternal life with God. The physical blood represents this loss of spiritual, eternal life.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
God does not need blood sacrifice or need anything. Humans on the other hand need to know there is a penalty for sin and it is death, loss of eternal life with God. The physical blood represents this loss of spiritual, eternal life.

Its a gross concept.. innocent blood for the sin of another? The concept of scapegoat is very pagan.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Its a gross concept.. innocent blood for the sin of another? The concept of scapegoat is very pagan.
Just shows how gross and awful sin really is. God/Jesus shed His innocent blood to demonstrate the greatest love and save humans from their downward sinful spiral. This was a God concept, pagans throughout history have twisted and perverted it.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Just shows how gross and awful sin really is. God/Jesus shed His innocent blood to demonstrate the greatest love and save humans from their downward sinful spiral. This was a God concept, pagans throughout history have twisted and perverted it.

Do you know about Azazel the scapegoat?

Azazel ( Leviticus 16:8 Leviticus 16:10 Leviticus 16:26}
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Basically, you worship a deity that isn't part of the traditional Christian perspective, nor in the Christian Scriptures. Irrelevant argument, since it's a different religion, and even clearly a different god.
A perspective does not make a God.
There are many different religions but there is Only One God, the God who created the Universe and revealed ALL the religions. All these religions are like chapters in a book that are revealed in different ages, but they are all part of One eternal religion of God. Referring to the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah wrote:

This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 136
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Although, I believe there are places throughout the NT which show Jesus is God.
Verses can be interpreted in many different ways. Those verses only show that Jesus is God to people who already believe that Jesus is God.
I think the reason Jesus never came right out and said the words, "I am God" is simply because His purpose in coming to the earth was to become flesh, lower Himself into human form, so as to pay for the sins of humanity.
That is not what Jesus came for. Rather, that is what the Church doctrine of original sin and the cross sacrifice SAY that Jesus came for. Show me any verses where Jesus says that is what He came for.

Here is what Jesus says He came for:

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Please note that Jesus says nothing about coming into the world to be a sacrificial lamb to save us from our sins. That is a doctrine of the Church, NOT a teaching of Jesus.


What was this Truth Jesus came to bear witness to? It was the Truth about God. The various translations of John 1:18 say that Jesus came to make God known, to declare God, to explain God, to show us what God is like. That alone indicates that Jesus cannot BE God, because showing what God is like indicates that Jesus was separate from God.

John 1:18

CEB No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.

KJV No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

NASB No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NCV No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, and he has shown us what God is like.

NKJV No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

NLV The much-loved Son is beside the Father. No man has ever seen God. But Christ has made God known to us.

RSV No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John 1:18 - Bible Gateway

Please note that all the translations of John 1:18 say that no one has ever seen God. Many people saw Jesus so we know that Jesus cannot be God.

Jesus was the Word because Jesus was the appearance of God, since the perfections of God appeared in Jesus.

Jesus was a Manifestation of God because the perfections of God were manifested in Jesus.

“As it is said in the Gospel of John, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God”; 1 then the Holy Spirit and the Word are the appearance of God. The Spirit and the Word mean the divine perfections that appeared in the Reality of Christ, and these perfections were with God; so the sun manifests all its glory in the mirror. For the Word does not signify the body of Christ, no, but the divine perfections manifested in Him. For Christ was like a clear mirror which was facing the Sun of Reality; and the perfections of the Sun of Reality—that is to say, its light and heat—were visible and apparent in this mirror. If we look into the mirror, we see the sun, and we say, “It is the sun.” Therefore, the Word and the Holy Spirit, which signify the perfections of God, are the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse in the Gospel which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God”; 2 for the divine perfections are not different from the Essence of Oneness.” Some Answered Questions, p. 206

The fact that Jesus was a Manifestation of God is corroborated in this verse:

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Please note that the verse does not say that Jesus was an incarnation of God as most Christians believe. A Manifestation of God shows us what God is like, as it says in John 1:18. An Incarnation of God means that God became flesh, that God assumed a human nature and became a man in the form of Jesus Christ. That is impossible because God is Spirit and a Spirit cannot become flesh and still be Spirit.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Being the image of God means that Jesus could not be God, because an image is a representation of something else. An image is not the thing itself.

Moreover, this verse says God is invisible, and we know that Jesus was not invisible, since He was seen by many people.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do not know why Christians cannot settle for Jesus being a Manifestation of God, because that is what is supported by the scripture. The scripture does not support that God incarnated and became the man Jesus; that is a Church doctrine.

Jesus did not have to be God in order to forgive sins or to bestow salvation on the cross; a Manifestation of God can do those things. Again, it was Church doctrine that says that only God can forgive sins and bestow salvation upon us.

Moreover, it is not true that only God is sinless, so that is why Jesus had to become God in order to bestow salvation on the cross. A Manifestation of God is also sinless and He can bestow salvation.
Not only that, but the scriptures say ....
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2;6-8
Jesus was in the form of God because Jesus was a perfect mirror image of God in the flesh, but that verse shows that Jesus was not actually God, because the form of God is not the same as God.

Jesus was equal with God in certain ways, but not in all ways. That verse show that Jesus was not God, and the reason why is explained in the excerpt from the article Did the Jews Accuse Jesus of Claiming to Be “God” or “a God”?

“Furthermore, claiming equality with God is not the same as claiming to be God. In claiming to be equal to someone, you necessarily distinguish yourself from that person. Jesus constantly distinguished himself from the “one” God of Judaism, whom he called “Father.””

I suggest you read the whole article on that link because it explains what Jesus actually claimed about Himself, That He was not God.
From His position of humanity and humility, I don't believe Jesus had any intention of going around proclaiming that He was God.
If Jesus had been God, He would have wanted everyone to know He was God; otherwise He would have been deceptive, and God does not lie.

If Jesus was FULLY God, as Christians claim, He could not have been humble; God cannot be is humble since God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing, and All-Wise.

Jesus was God in the sense that He manifested the attributes of God, but Jesus was also a Messenger of God and a Servant of God and the Voice of God Himself. In the New Testament, Jesus speaks from all these different stations. In His station of Servant He humbles Himself before God but at other times He speaks as if He is God, because Jesus was the Voice of God.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:16
If you take these two verses together, they do not make sense.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

If Jesus was the image of God, Jesus could not BE God, because an image is a representation of something else.

Then Col 1:16 says that by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, but that contradicts the following verse, which was written long before the NT was written:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

That demonstrates that there is a problem with Colossians 1.

It seems to me that if Jesus had done something as all-important as creating the heavens and the earth Jesus would have said that somewhere in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. What Paul said about Jesus is just what Paul believed about Jesus, and Paul never even met Jesus.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Did Bahá'u'lláh.....

Make the blind see again?
Cure the lepers?
Made the paralytic walk?
Healed hemorrhages?
Cast out demons?
Raised the dead back to life?
Control nature?

He didn't?

Because my Messiah did this things.
The Messiah Jesus did those things at His First Coming but He was not prophesied to do those things at His Second Coming.

Jesus said in John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jesus was speaking of another man He would send, and that is why Jesus said in John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And then Jesus said in John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to youJesus meant that His Spirit would come to them.

Jesus said He would send another Comforter. Jesus was the FIRST Comforter, but there would be another Comforter.

This man that Jesus would send was the same Spirit of God, the return of the Spirit of Jesus Christ in another man. That is why we already KNEW HIM:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus also said in John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Comforter is the same as the Spirit of Truth. It refers to the man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and who would BRING the Holy Spirit to humanity.

Jesus was the first Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

Jesus was the Messiah and Baha’u’llah was the RETURN of the Messiah.

Jesus describes what that Comforter/Spirit of Truth will do:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That is EXACTLY what has happened. Baha’u’llah has taught all things and He has brought what Jesus said to remembrance, and He has testified of Jesus and He has glorified Jesus.

Referring to Jesus as the Son of man and the Word of God, Baha’u’llah wrote:

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The Messiah Jesus did those things at His First Coming but He was not prophesied to do those things at His Second Coming.

Jesus said in John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jesus was speaking of another man He would send, and that is why Jesus said in John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And then Jesus said in John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to youJesus meant that His Spirit would come to them.

Jesus said He would send another Comforter. Jesus was the FIRST Comforter, but there would be another Comforter.

This man that Jesus would send was the same Spirit of God, the return of the Spirit of Jesus Christ in another man. That is why we already KNEW HIM:

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jesus also said in John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Comforter is the same as the Spirit of Truth. It refers to the man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and who would BRING the Holy Spirit to humanity.

Jesus was the first Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit to humanity and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter.

Jesus was the Messiah and Baha’u’llah was the RETURN of the Messiah.

Jesus describes what that Comforter/Spirit of Truth will do:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That is EXACTLY what has happened. Baha’u’llah has taught all things and He has brought what Jesus said to remembrance, and He has testified of Jesus and He has glorified Jesus.

Referring to Jesus as the Son of man and the Word of God, Baha’u’llah wrote:

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86

And you say that the Comforter is Baha'u'llah?

The Comforter mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit and not a man.

What is the mission or the purpose of Baha'u'llah?
And is Baha'u'llah worshiped by Baha'i?

upload_2019-5-16_18-58-54.jpeg
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Top Ten Reasons Why Jesus is Not God

God is a big fat sissy pants.
Jesus is not a big fat sissy pants.
Therefore Jesus is not God.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It is not like I had a choice. Projecting qualities to God to such a degree is very misleading and very dangerous indeed.
Well, I didn't read Trailblazer's words as dangerous.

But I certainly appreciate the explanation.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Well, I didn't read Trailblazer's words as dangerous.

But I certainly appreciate the explanation.
Do you see no danger in projecting all virtue as emanating from an ephemerous deity of dubious existence?
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
I only need ONE reason to know why this Jesus is NOT any "god", I've met God several times, and he most certainly was NOT that silly Jesus myth. I always laugh at that most spiritually clueless claim.

The true God was never a puny physical man, and never could be. It's a most absurdly false claim, borne out of the primitive minds of the time when such silly myths were common.
 
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