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Why Predudices are so dangerous?

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
While I am glad you want to stop prejudice, perhaps you are being prejudice yourself doing this

That is indeed is the Truth. What we hold as predudices are only found when we can let go of self and look with the same critical eye at our own self. This for me is a daily grind, but one I am happy to do.

Your post had lots of points, I will see if I can get back to a few tonight and give some thoughts. My working day approaches fast.

Regards Tony
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...
I'm human. You're human. It our species.
No, because we don't share the exact same genes, You are not me and I am not you. A species is the totality of all genes, but an individual is not all genes. Neither your nor my genes need to replicate for the species to survive. That is the problem with your idea.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
Really? Which side is comparing Trump to Hitler and screaming that he will put people in concentration camps?
You provide more evidence of what I said: "... the real point is being entirely missed. "

You appear so wrapped up in your tribalism that you can't see the forest for the trees.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yeah, what about gender? Your list is lacking, nor does it seem to look at the reason, just the symptom. These are symptoms of prejudice, which require more than just saying it needs a remedy, as if you or this person knows what they are.

Yes It was not a full list. Now consider your answer, was it based in a prejudice before you offered it? I ask as the intent was to offer some refute without clarification.

The quote was about some if those prejudices that cause the most conflict in the world, given in a short talk to a specific audience, as such it has its scope, it is not a full story.

It was also delivered by an expert in predudices, from a person that had none at all and lived a life to prove tha we could be prejudice free. So yes, He was qualified to offer that advice. If you want his credentials read of the life of Abdul'baha.

I wish you well, regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What was forgotten here is superiority. Nearly all prejudices, that I know about, is somehow grounded in a thought of superiority. I find your reply astoundingly arrogant; as if your religion, among thousands are the answer to all prayers.

I would again ask you to examine your response for preconceived predudices.

No post I have offered is from me having a superior or arrogant perspective. I offer what I see as good advice from what I see is a reliable and knowledgable source in all honesty.

Thus are they good points or not? Is there a predudice held against the offered source?

In a way it can be seen your answer just confirmed the quote.

Regards Tony
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
No, because we don't share the exact same genes, You are not me and I am not you. A species is the totality of all genes, but an individual is not all genes. Neither your nor my genes need to replicate for the species to survive. That is the problem with your idea.
In debate, you don't get to insist that your personal, preferred definition of words is correct because if you allow someone to define the word "fly" in their own way, they can give you a sound argument that horses can fly.

(macmillan) species: a plant or animal group whose members all have similar general features and are able to produce young plants or animals together
 
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mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
In debate, you don't get to insist that your personal, preferred definition of words is correct.

(macmillan) species: a plant or animal group whose members all have similar general features and are able to produce young plants or animals together

Similar general: Some humans have morality, not all, because they don't have the cognition for it. Of those, who have it, all don't have the exact same morality.
It is a similar(having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical) general (involving or relating to most people, things, or conditions, esp. when these are considered as a unit; not particular or specific:the general standard of living) trait for most humans to have morality, but it doesn't have to be identical.

Prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
You claimed fairness is the same in all humans. I explained it is not. We switch from human law to biology and you treat similar and general as exact and identical. Fairness is a positive bias.
All words are similar as words and general as a part of language, but they are not exactly the same and identical.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Similar general: Some humans have morality, not all, because they don't have the cognition for it.
If you think moral judgment is a matter of IQ, why don't we see a direct correlation between IQ and moral behavior?

Of those, who have it, all don't have the exact same morality. It is a similar general trait for most humans to have morality, but it doesn't have to be identical.
Why is it different? If given all the true facts in the State vs. Gordon, why would unbiased jurors come up with different judgments?

Fairness is a positive bias
How can fairness be biased? Biases are unfair.

(macmillan) Bias: an attitude that you have that makes you treat someone in a way that is unfair or different from the way you treat other people
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You provide more evidence of what I said: "... the real point is being entirely missed. "

You appear so wrapped up in your tribalism that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Is the point you wish to make that predudices can fuel very wrong choices?

I personally see to bring Nazi into the conversation, it also brings in some of the most destructive predudices we can have. Thus for this OP it would be used only to show how destructive predudices are.

Regards Tony
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
...

(macmillan) Bias: an attitude that you have that makes you treat someone in a way that is unfair or different from the way you treat other people
Bias: an attitude that you have that makes you treat someone in a way different from the way you treat other people.

Google:
A person who is influenced by a bias is biased. The expression is not “they're bias,” but “they're biased.” Also, many people say someone is “biased toward” something or someone when they mean biased against. To have a bias toward something is to be biased in its favor.
Note biased against versus biased in favor.
The word bias have several meanings. The one you quoted versus the one I quoted. I am talking of the second one.
You are biased in favor of killing in lawful self defense. A pacific is biased against. That is my point.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Jim - What I love about any topic is that it brings in the many diverse thoughts that can then clash to be discussed. We know then the spark of truth is lit and we all learn.
“Clash” and “spark of truth” are buzzwords from what Baha’i scriptures say about consultation. There are certain conditions for that to be fruitful. For example the purpose of the participants has to be to agree on some actions for the participants to try, or for people to try who are willing to follow their advice. That’s only one example of conditions required for fruitful consultation. There are others, and I don’t see any hope of it happening in this thread. What I do see is more of the depraved and poisonous kind of socializing and entertainment that I want to avoid.

Of course anyone can learn from any kind of discussion, no matter how depraved and poisonous it is, and maybe this is a good way for you to learn and try to teach, but I don’t think it is for me.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
I offer what I see as good advice from what I see is a reliable and knowledgable source in all honesty
I see now that your whole purpose in this thread might have been, once again, to shovel quotes from Baha’i scriptures into people’s faces against their will, and I don’t want to be associated with that. I only posted in this thread because I thought you might be trying something different this time, that I might like.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Bias: an attitude that you have that makes you treat someone in a way different from the way you treat other people.

Google:
Note biased against versus biased in favor.
The word bias have several meanings. The one you quoted versus the one I quoted. I am talking of the second one.
You are biased in favor of killing in lawful self defense. A pacific is biased against. That is my point.
You are confused.

The statement you made that I disagreed with was: "Fairness is a positive bias." That's not possible. Biases are unfair.

Earlier, I agreed with you that biases can be positive or negative. I gave you an example of the mother of the rapist (positive bias) and the father of the victim (negative bias). Both are biased therefore we ignore them if justice is what we want in sentencing.

Biases send good judgments off course. I'm not biased in favor of killing in lawful self-defense unless I, and most humans who agree are wrong. The pacifist has created his own moral rule to conflict with conscience and the judgment of most humans. That rule caused a bias in his judgment and sent it off course. He's wrong.
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Besides the prejudice itself, another very real danger is not recognising that you have them.

The other day we had some skid steer work done in our backyard, removal of patio. One of the workers was a first nations guy. He told Boss that he'd been hired just sitting in a coffee shop, when the concrete demolition owner guy just came over and asked him if he wanted a job.

Normally people here might react to this person in a negative prejudiced way. My reaction is usually the opposite, as Dad hired First Nations kids to work on the farm, some 50 years back. I bonded with a couple of those young men, as they were willing to play catch with me. So it's training ... not much else.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You provide more evidence of what I said: "... the real point is being entirely missed. "

The point which you demonstrated your bias in order to make a false point. Yawn

You appear so wrapped up in your tribalism that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Says the one that only pointed out issues with the right not the left. Hilarious. Let me know when you leave your own forest.
 

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
That is indeed is the Truth. What we hold as predudices are only found when we can let go of self and look with the same critical eye at our own self. This for me is a daily grind, but one I am happy to do.

Your post had lots of points, I will see if I can get back to a few tonight and give some thoughts. My working day approaches fast.

Regards Tony
This is the best response you wrote to me but it goes down hill after this.

Yes It was not a full list. Now consider your answer, was it based in a prejudice before you offered it?
I've noticed this is the bulk of your reply to me: "Uh, nah uh, you too bro!" My reply to you was to offer my observation of you and your belief. There are two differences between you and me. First, I know I can be arrogant and act superiorly, and I'll especially question my behaviour when confronted about it, though sometimes I do it on purpose. You however, it seems, cannot do this. You're so blinded by your belief that this becomes impossible because you are following some infallible entity/person/whatever. You have not wavered, at all, to my critique of your behaviour. You cannot seem to realise your superior attitude. If you don't believe me, ask a neutral observer to see whether I'm right. Second, I did not say I have an answer. I was questioning your biases in this matter and your involvement, which you don't want or can't analyse yourself.

I ask as the intent was to offer some refute without clarification.
How am I supposed to refute anything without you clarifying anything? Your responses are always copy/paste scripture without an evidential basis. Here, let me try: The Great Jack says. "you are wrong and Baha is nonsense." Damn, that was easy.

The quote was about some if those prejudices that cause the most conflict in the world
Yeah, and where's your evidence for that other than mumbo jumbo some guy said?

Thus are they good points or not?
They are neither good nor bad: they're assertions. Anyone, I repeat, anyone can assert anything.

It was also delivered by an expert in predudices, from a person that had none at all and lived a life to prove tha we could be prejudice free. So yes, He was qualified to offer that advice. If you want his credentials read of the life of Abdul'baha.
Is there a predudice held against the offered source?
You seem to revere a source and consequently think everything a source says is correct. Children do this. I don't do this. What I do is examine the context ONLY and then see if it corresponds with reality. Who gives a rats *** about the source. I don't look to see if the context came from some revered figure and then think reality must correspond with it. This is what zealots do and this is how, in my opinion, humanity destroys itself.

I would again ask you to examine your response for preconceived predudices.
In a way it can be seen your answer just confirmed the quote.
Tu quoque much? I replied to this in the second quote above. The passive-aggressiveness that your response gives is absolutely amazing. If you're annoyed with me just say it, rather than go into these passive aggressive retorts.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
Besides the prejudice itself, another very real danger is not recognising that you have them.
First, since the word “prejudice” seems to be distracting people from the issue that concerns me, I want to say what the issue is for me. The issue for me is alienation between people, and people hardening their hearts against other people, across various lines they draw in their minds between themselves and other people, and people making excuses for themselves, for doing that. The only way that I think it will ever change, and I think it is already happening and will continue happening, is for more and more people to presume that they are doing that themselves, whether they see themselves doing it or not, and to work continually to free themselves from it, never imagining that their work on that is finished.

Stereotyping can have harmful effects even when it is not associated with alienation and people hardening their hearts. I think that will change the same way.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
First, since the word “prejudice” seems to be distracting people from the issue that concerns me, I want to say what the issue is for me. The issue for me is alienation between people, and people hardening their hearts against other people, across various lines they draw in their minds between themselves and other people, and people making excuses for themselves, for doing that. The only way that I think it will ever change, and I think it is already happening and will continue happening, is for more and more people to presume that they are doing that themselves, whether they see themselves doing it or not, and to work continually to free themselves from it, never imagining that their work on that is finished.

Stereotyping can have harmful effects even when it is not associated with alienation and people hardening their hearts. I think that will change the same way.


In my view the solution is generally to get to know people on a personal level. Usually you learn to like them. But the opposite can also happen. You can learn to dislike them. If they chronically lie to you, borrow money without paying it back, and are generally 'using' you, it becomes harder to like them. If they preach at you, and never listen, that too can happen. Life is so much fun, eh?

In mystic Hinduism we are trained to look past the personality and into the soul, whose window is the person's eyes, not the personalty, religion, gender any of that. The Hindu priests at temples take specific training to see everyone who enters as the same, with same rights ... a devotee of God, nothing more, nothing less.

So it's not actually about people ... it's about souls.

But that's just my perspective ... doesn't work for most.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I see now that your whole purpose in this thread might have been, once again, to shovel quotes from Baha’i scriptures into people’s faces against their will, and I don’t want to be associated with that. I only posted in this thread because I thought you might be trying something different this time, that I might like.

Follow your heart Jim.

Regards Tony
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
The point which you demonstrated your bias in order to make a false point. Yawn
Not my bias, I am a centrist. The point is demonstrated by the data. If you are unfamiliar with the field you should hit the books before flapping the gums.

Says the one that only pointed out issues with the right not the left. Hilarious. Let me know when you leave your own forest.
That has more to do with your biases that place positives on the prefrontal mediated phenomena and negatives on those mediated by the amygdala. Those are solely your judgements, but I do find your judgements revealing ... they lead me to suspect that you'd like to be a leftie ... but can't seem to figure out how to do so.
 
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