Audie
Veteran Member
Oh dear. I hope you are not one of those who
prays daily that it is time to start killing all the
atheists.
-
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The Restitution Of All Things
- Thread starter FineLinen
- Start date
- Status
Oh dear. I hope you are not one of those who
prays daily that it is time to start killing all the
atheists.
Dear Audie: One is only an atheist until a Heavenly encounter. I am not one who has any intention of killing any of them, in fact, I have some on my friends roster.
The way for all is through the fires, for fire is the great uniter and reconciler of all things; and things which without fire can never be united, in and through the fire are changed and become one.
Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.
Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,
Mark 9: 49-
For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.
NOTE:
Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)
And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;
NOTE:
James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.
The Restitution of All Things -Andrew Jukes-
Therefore every coming of Christ, even in grace, is a day of judgment. Therefore there are fires even for the elect both now, (1 Pet. 1:7, and 4: 12) and in the coming day; (1 Cor. 3:. 13, 15.) for “our God is a consuming fire;” (Heb. 12: 29.) and to dwell in Him we must have a life, which, because it is of the fire, for fire burns not fire, can stand unhurt in it.
Therefore our Lord “came to cast fire into the earth,” and desired nothing more than “that it should be already kindled;” (S. Luke 12: 49) therefore He says,
Mark 9: 49-
For this is the very “baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire,” (Matt. 3: 11) that “spirit of judgment and burning,” promised by the prophet, "with which the Lord shall purge away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and cleanse the blood of Jerusalem; after which He will create on every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and on all her assemblies, a cloud of smoke by day, and the brightness of flame of fire by night; and upon all, the glory shall be a defense; (Isa. 4: 4, 5) for “He is like a refiner’s fire, and like a fuller’s soap; and He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and He shall purify the sons of Levi as gold and silver are purged, that they may offer to the Lord an offering of righteousness.” (Mal. 3: 3). And as by the hidden fire of this present life, shut up in these bodies of corruption, we are able by the wondrous chemistry of nature through corruption to change the fruits and flesh of the earth into our blood, and from blood again into our flesh and bone and sinew; so by the fire of God can we be changed, and made partakers of Christ’s flesh and blood. In and through Christ we have received this transmutation; (Rom. 5: 11) and through His Spirit, which is fire, is this same change accomplished in us.
NOTE:
Numbers 28: 6. By this double sense a veil covers the letter, veiling yet revealing God’s purpose; for His purpose to the creature is through destruction to perfect it, and by fire to make it a bride unto the Lord. For a kindred reason some of the angels are called Seraphim, that is burning ones; for like the Lord, whose throne is flames of fire, (Dan. 7: 9,10.) they also are as fire; as it is written, “He makes His angels spirits, His messengers a flame of fire.” (Heb. 1: 7, and Psalm 104:4)
And as with the first-fruits, so with the harvest. The world to be saved must some day know the same baptism. For “the Lord will come with fire,” and “by fire and by His sword will He plead with all flesh, and the slain of the Lord shall be many.” (Isa. 66: 15, 16.) The promised baptism or outpouring of the Spirit must be judgment, for the Spirit cannot be poured on man without consuming this flesh to quicken a better life;
NOTE:
James 1: 20) works both righteousness and life, and is set forth in that “warfare of the service of the tabernacle” (See Numbers 4: 23, 30, and 8: 24, 25; margin: and compare 1 Tim. 1: eighteen) by which that which was of the earth was made to ascend to God through fire a sweet sacrifice.
The Restitution of All Things -Andrew Jukes-
There lives within my heart,
A hope long nursed by me;
And should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be.
That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round His throne abide
Eternal praise to give.
That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And when their dreadful doom is past
To light and life arise.
I ask not how remote the day,
Nor what the sinner’s woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me to know,
That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They’ll cling to what they once disdained
And live by Him Who died. -Helen Bronte-
Anne Bronte and universalism
A hope long nursed by me;
And should its cheering ray depart,
How dark my soul would be.
That as in Adam all have died,
In Christ shall all men live;
And ever round His throne abide
Eternal praise to give.
That even the wicked shall at last
Be fitted for the skies;
And when their dreadful doom is past
To light and life arise.
I ask not how remote the day,
Nor what the sinner’s woe,
Before their dross is purged away;
Enough for me to know,
That when the cup of wrath is drained,
The metal purified,
They’ll cling to what they once disdained
And live by Him Who died. -Helen Bronte-
Anne Bronte and universalism
Audie
Veteran Member
Nah. One is only a "theist" until he figures it out
that he has been sold (or sold himself) a load of bs.
Your obsession about blood made me kinda wonder
how far you take this "blood" thing.
Audie
Veteran Member
Here is some more along the same lines.
Guess where I got it?
So that of Hyle, nor Chaos, nor quintessence high,
Is there any generation to multiply,
In species or kinde here in Earth below,
Of creatures abiding under the sky,
But the four elements do make influence,
By their special power into all things below;
And into every specific thing do put quintessence,
To reap such seed thereof: as men do sow,
But of themselves. As they are simple and pure in kind,
In every species together conjoined we do them find,
Creating Sulphur, Salt, and Argent vive -
The inward bodies of things that make them thrive.
Whose gross bodies to destroy, if we them have,
We must not spare thereof to deprave.
Dear Audie: It is always a great pleasure speaking with one who has figured it all out. I am still trying to figure out the last digit of Pi.
As for this "blood thing" : I will take it as far as the Scripture will allow!
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God Has His Eye On Us!
"Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we're a free people—free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds. And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free! He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.
It's in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone.
It's in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free—signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit. This signet from God is the first installment on what's coming, a reminder that we'll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life." -The Message-
"Because of the sacrifice of the Messiah, his blood poured out on the altar of the Cross, we're a free people—free of penalties and punishments chalked up by all our misdeeds. And not just barely free, either. Abundantly free! He thought of everything, provided for everything we could possibly need, letting us in on the plans he took such delight in making. He set it all out before us in Christ, a long-range plan in which everything would be brought together and summed up in him, everything in deepest heaven, everything on planet earth.
It's in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone.
It's in Christ that you, once you heard the truth and believed it (this Message of your salvation), found yourselves home free—signed, sealed, and delivered by the Holy Spirit. This signet from God is the first installment on what's coming, a reminder that we'll get everything God has planned for us, a praising and glorious life." -The Message-
Audie
Veteran Member
I take it you talk to yourself a lot.
The Circus Man
I WAS educated in the strictest So-called "orthodox faith." When I was from ten to fourteen years of age, I attended prayer meetings where I could almost feel the burning waves and smell the sulphurous fumes. I remember the shrieks and groans of suffering children and parents and even aged grandparents. I would return to my home and with the utmost sincerity ask God to take me out of the world if He would only Save me from hell. I professed to love God, Said I hoped I loved Him as I heard my elders do. Necessarily before this seething sulphurous sea of flame my love must have been similar to the love a woman would feel to a tyrant who with a loaded pistol pointed at her heart bade her love him or die. I grew to know that true love cannot be forced. We cannot love the unlovely. "We love Him because He first loved us."
In speaking of my Universalist faith I shall not stop to defend those basal beliefs on which it rests in common with all other Christian doctrines. I shall assume, without giving my reasons, the being of God, the authority of Jesus, the truth of the trend of Scripture, and the immortality of all Souls. I shall speak chiefly on only those points which differentiate mine from other Christian sects. I can make no argument for a universe finally obedient which will have any force to one who denies the being of God. An argument for endless discord can be made which all atheists would accept : indeed, all modern arguments for that idea play into the hands of atheists.
These arguments assert a God who either cannot, or will not, bring the creation of His hands to order; hence he is not God -not infinite. His name should begin with a small letter. The atheist accepts the argument, and if there is an arch-fiend he certainly laughs. No argument for a finally harmonious universe can be made save on the basis of Christian theism. I do not, indeed, insist that a man must accept my definition or conception of Deity; but some conception which does not rob Him of the necessary attributes of His being. He may say with Arnold, " A power not ourselves which makes for righteousness." Very well; if only Arnold's God continues to make for righteousness, Universalism is assured. If, however, one is able to say with Jesus, "Our Father who art in heaven," the argument is still stronger. To him who believes neither of these ideas of God nor their equivalent, I can make no argument which will avail.
Continued below
WHY I AM A UNIVERSALIST - P.T. BARNUM
I WAS educated in the strictest So-called "orthodox faith." When I was from ten to fourteen years of age, I attended prayer meetings where I could almost feel the burning waves and smell the sulphurous fumes. I remember the shrieks and groans of suffering children and parents and even aged grandparents. I would return to my home and with the utmost sincerity ask God to take me out of the world if He would only Save me from hell. I professed to love God, Said I hoped I loved Him as I heard my elders do. Necessarily before this seething sulphurous sea of flame my love must have been similar to the love a woman would feel to a tyrant who with a loaded pistol pointed at her heart bade her love him or die. I grew to know that true love cannot be forced. We cannot love the unlovely. "We love Him because He first loved us."
In speaking of my Universalist faith I shall not stop to defend those basal beliefs on which it rests in common with all other Christian doctrines. I shall assume, without giving my reasons, the being of God, the authority of Jesus, the truth of the trend of Scripture, and the immortality of all Souls. I shall speak chiefly on only those points which differentiate mine from other Christian sects. I can make no argument for a universe finally obedient which will have any force to one who denies the being of God. An argument for endless discord can be made which all atheists would accept : indeed, all modern arguments for that idea play into the hands of atheists.
These arguments assert a God who either cannot, or will not, bring the creation of His hands to order; hence he is not God -not infinite. His name should begin with a small letter. The atheist accepts the argument, and if there is an arch-fiend he certainly laughs. No argument for a finally harmonious universe can be made save on the basis of Christian theism. I do not, indeed, insist that a man must accept my definition or conception of Deity; but some conception which does not rob Him of the necessary attributes of His being. He may say with Arnold, " A power not ourselves which makes for righteousness." Very well; if only Arnold's God continues to make for righteousness, Universalism is assured. If, however, one is able to say with Jesus, "Our Father who art in heaven," the argument is still stronger. To him who believes neither of these ideas of God nor their equivalent, I can make no argument which will avail.
Continued below
WHY I AM A UNIVERSALIST - P.T. BARNUM
Audie
Veteran Member
The Circus Man
I WAS educated in the strictest So-called "orthodox faith." When I was from ten to fourteen years of age, I attended prayer meetings where I could almost feel the burning waves and smell the sulphurous fumes. I remember the shrieks and groans of suffering children and parents and even aged grandparents. I would return to my home and with the utmost sincerity ask God to take me out of the world if He would only Save me from hell. I professed to love God, Said I hoped I loved Him as I heard my elders do. Necessarily before this seething sulphurous sea of flame my love must have been similar to the love a woman would feel to a tyrant who with a loaded pistol pointed at her heart bade her love him or die. I grew to know that true love cannot be forced. We cannot love the unlovely. "We love Him because He first loved us."
In speaking of my Universalist faith I shall not stop to defend those basal beliefs on which it rests in common with all other Christian doctrines. I shall assume, without giving my reasons, the being of God, the authority of Jesus, the truth of the trend of Scripture, and the immortality of all Souls. I shall speak chiefly on only those points which differentiate mine from other Christian sects. I can make no argument for a universe finally obedient which will have any force to one who denies the being of God. An argument for endless discord can be made which all atheists would accept : indeed, all modern arguments for that idea play into the hands of atheists.
These arguments assert a God who either cannot, or will not, bring the creation of His hands to order; hence he is not God -not infinite. His name should begin with a small letter. The atheist accepts the argument, and if there is an arch-fiend he certainly laughs. No argument for a finally harmonious universe can be made save on the basis of Christian theism. I do not, indeed, insist that a man must accept my definition or conception of Deity; but some conception which does not rob Him of the necessary attributes of His being. He may say with Arnold, " A power not ourselves which makes for righteousness." Very well; if only Arnold's God continues to make for righteousness, Universalism is assured. If, however, one is able to say with Jesus, "Our Father who art in heaven," the argument is still stronger. To him who believes neither of these ideas of God nor their equivalent, I can make no argument which will avail.
Continued below
WHY I AM A UNIVERSALIST - P.T. BARNUM
That would give anyone mental health issues
Dear Audie: There are many mental health issues in this world & all of us are in one degree or another standing in need, (not you of course, the rest of us).
The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/ emancipated from the tyranny of change & decay...
And yes, Audie, that encompasses you and the whole radical all/pas!
Audie
Veteran Member
Antiphonal Worship
You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshipped Him who lives forever and ever.
A.T. Robertson Word Pictures=
Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.
Let's speak today regarding our Fathers cherished purpose in the Son of His love, our Lord and Saviour of all mankind, Christ Jesus our Lord.
"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.." -Weymouth-
You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:
“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”
And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshipped Him who lives forever and ever.
A.T. Robertson Word Pictures=
Every created thing (pan ktisma). Every creature in a still wider antiphonal circle beyond the circle of angels (from ktizw, for which see 1 Timothy 4:4 ; James 1:18 ), from all the four great fields of life (in heaven, upon the earth, under the earth as in verse James 3 , with on the sea epi th qalassh added). No created thing is left out. This universal chorus of praise to Christ from all created life reminds one of the profound mystical passage in Romans 8:20-22 concerning the sympathetic agony of creation (ktisi) in hope of freedom from the bondage of corruption. If the trail of the serpent is on all creation, it will be ultimately thrown off.
Let's speak today regarding our Fathers cherished purpose in the Son of His love, our Lord and Saviour of all mankind, Christ Jesus our Lord.
"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.." -Weymouth-
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The Inescapable Love Of God
Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition
"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.." -F.W. Weymouth-
Thomas Talbott- The Inescapable Love of God - 2nd Edition
"..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.." -F.W. Weymouth-
Dear Audie: Please try and respond with something of substance. If you do, F.L. will refuse to allow youth and inexperience to get in the way.
Now, look in those sparkling blue eyes and tell me you will try.
God must be accomplishing a design invariable and without the shadow of turning, the design to save every one of us everlastingly. –Florence Nightingale
God will seek us -- how long? Until he finds us. And when he's found the last little shriveling rebellious soul and has depopulated hell, then death will be swallowed up in victory, and Christ will turn over all things to the Father that he may be all and in all. Then every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. --Clarence Jordan - (founder of Koinonia Community, author of “Cotton Patch Gospel”)
I trust that in Jesus Christ shall “all the families of the earth be blessed,” by being yet connected together in a better world, where every tie that bound heart to heart in this state of existence shall be far beyond our present conception, more enduring. –Robert Burns, 1789
“The restoration of the whole human race to purity and happiness.”
This benevolent doctrine—which not only goes far as to solve the great problem of moral and physical evil, but which would, if received more generally, tend to soften the spirit of uncharitableness, so fatally prevalent among Christian sects—was maintained by that great light of the early church, Origen, and has not wanted supporters among more modern theologians. –Thomas Moore 1779-1852
The Holy Spirit establishes the righteousness of heaven in the midst of the unrighteousness of earth, and will not stop or stay until all that is dead has been brought back to life and a new world has come into being.--Karl Barth
If you want the full and eternal truth, you have to go back to foundational beginnings. Are hell and sin and God’s judgments anywhere in Genesis 1 or 2? No. They aren’t there. God did not intend for them to be there. His intent was perfection. Thus I believe that such a foundation leads to the inescapable conclusion that perfection will again reign throughout the universe, and that sin (and hell) will ultimately be defeated. How else will God’s original intent ultimately be accomplished? –Michael Phillips
In each dispensation, God has a definite and different immediate purpose, all working toward the ultimate purpose of ridding the universe of all rebellion, so that all free moral agents will be willingly and eternally subject to God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost, as originally planned, with God all in all forever. --Finis Dake, "Notes on Genesis" in Dake's Bible
Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things) represents an ultimate consequence of doctrine of the aeons, and as such a theological necessity. –Walter Kunneth
This sublime revelation of the extent of redemption as commensurate with the whole creation is brought out especially in...Philippians 2:9-10, Colossians 1:20-21. The solitary prisoner, Paul, could see farthest into the glory of the Divine Counsels. --B.F. Westcott, of Westcott and Hort
The Spirit of the Lord says within my soul, that the kingly nature of the Son of God is purposed to be revealed in the nature of every man, that Christ’s kingliness may be prevalent in all the world and govern the heart of every man, even as it governs the heart of those who know Him and have entered. –John G. Lake
The aim of redemption is to let Christ have the pre-eminence in all things. In order to have this first place in all things, Christ must first have the pre-eminence in us. And why? Because we are the firstfruits of all creation (James 1:18). After we are in subjection to Christ, all other things will follow in subjection... --Watchman Nee-
In the perspective of the future we have stopped short of the far-off goal, and explained the finale of God's purposes by the episode or process on the way thereto. --A.E. Saxby
Why good men should be so averse to admit it, I know not; - into their own hearts at least, however they might object to its promulgation among the bulk of mankind. But perhaps the world is not ripe for it yet. I have frequently thought that since it has pleased God to leave it in darkness so long respecting this particular truth, and often to use 'such doubtful language as to admit of such a general misconception thereupon, he must have some good reason for it. We see how liable men are to yield to the temptations of the passing hour; how little the dread of future punishment - how still less the promise of future reward can avail to make them forbear and wait; and if so many thousands rush into destruction with (as they suppose) the prospect of Eternal Death before their eyes, - what might not the consequence be, if that prospect were changed for one of a limited season of punishment, far distant and unseen, - however protracted and terrible it might be? I thankfully cherish this belief; I honour those who hold it; and I would that all men had the same view of man's hopes and God's unbounded goodness as he has given to us, if it might be had with safety…. Only let our zeal be tempered with discretion, and while we labour, let us humbly look to God who is able and certain to bring his great work to perfection in his own good time and manner. –Anne Bronte-
God will seek us -- how long? Until he finds us. And when he's found the last little shriveling rebellious soul and has depopulated hell, then death will be swallowed up in victory, and Christ will turn over all things to the Father that he may be all and in all. Then every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. --Clarence Jordan - (founder of Koinonia Community, author of “Cotton Patch Gospel”)
I trust that in Jesus Christ shall “all the families of the earth be blessed,” by being yet connected together in a better world, where every tie that bound heart to heart in this state of existence shall be far beyond our present conception, more enduring. –Robert Burns, 1789
“The restoration of the whole human race to purity and happiness.”
This benevolent doctrine—which not only goes far as to solve the great problem of moral and physical evil, but which would, if received more generally, tend to soften the spirit of uncharitableness, so fatally prevalent among Christian sects—was maintained by that great light of the early church, Origen, and has not wanted supporters among more modern theologians. –Thomas Moore 1779-1852
The Holy Spirit establishes the righteousness of heaven in the midst of the unrighteousness of earth, and will not stop or stay until all that is dead has been brought back to life and a new world has come into being.--Karl Barth
If you want the full and eternal truth, you have to go back to foundational beginnings. Are hell and sin and God’s judgments anywhere in Genesis 1 or 2? No. They aren’t there. God did not intend for them to be there. His intent was perfection. Thus I believe that such a foundation leads to the inescapable conclusion that perfection will again reign throughout the universe, and that sin (and hell) will ultimately be defeated. How else will God’s original intent ultimately be accomplished? –Michael Phillips
In each dispensation, God has a definite and different immediate purpose, all working toward the ultimate purpose of ridding the universe of all rebellion, so that all free moral agents will be willingly and eternally subject to God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost, as originally planned, with God all in all forever. --Finis Dake, "Notes on Genesis" in Dake's Bible
Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things) represents an ultimate consequence of doctrine of the aeons, and as such a theological necessity. –Walter Kunneth
This sublime revelation of the extent of redemption as commensurate with the whole creation is brought out especially in...Philippians 2:9-10, Colossians 1:20-21. The solitary prisoner, Paul, could see farthest into the glory of the Divine Counsels. --B.F. Westcott, of Westcott and Hort
The Spirit of the Lord says within my soul, that the kingly nature of the Son of God is purposed to be revealed in the nature of every man, that Christ’s kingliness may be prevalent in all the world and govern the heart of every man, even as it governs the heart of those who know Him and have entered. –John G. Lake
The aim of redemption is to let Christ have the pre-eminence in all things. In order to have this first place in all things, Christ must first have the pre-eminence in us. And why? Because we are the firstfruits of all creation (James 1:18). After we are in subjection to Christ, all other things will follow in subjection... --Watchman Nee-
In the perspective of the future we have stopped short of the far-off goal, and explained the finale of God's purposes by the episode or process on the way thereto. --A.E. Saxby
Why good men should be so averse to admit it, I know not; - into their own hearts at least, however they might object to its promulgation among the bulk of mankind. But perhaps the world is not ripe for it yet. I have frequently thought that since it has pleased God to leave it in darkness so long respecting this particular truth, and often to use 'such doubtful language as to admit of such a general misconception thereupon, he must have some good reason for it. We see how liable men are to yield to the temptations of the passing hour; how little the dread of future punishment - how still less the promise of future reward can avail to make them forbear and wait; and if so many thousands rush into destruction with (as they suppose) the prospect of Eternal Death before their eyes, - what might not the consequence be, if that prospect were changed for one of a limited season of punishment, far distant and unseen, - however protracted and terrible it might be? I thankfully cherish this belief; I honour those who hold it; and I would that all men had the same view of man's hopes and God's unbounded goodness as he has given to us, if it might be had with safety…. Only let our zeal be tempered with discretion, and while we labour, let us humbly look to God who is able and certain to bring his great work to perfection in his own good time and manner. –Anne Bronte-
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22
Fitted=katartivzw
Katartivzw=
To render or to fit.
To make sound or complete.
To mend what has been broken or rent.
To repair what has been broken or rent.
“And this brings us face to face with a blunder of our traditional creed, which is radical. It talks of God's love as though that stood merely on a par with His justice though it were something belonging to Him which He puts on or off. It is hardly possible to open a religious book in which this fatal error is not found; fatal, because it virtually strikes out of the Gospel its fundamental truth, that GOD IS LOVE. The terms are equivalent. They can be interchanged. God is not anger though He can be angry, God is not vengeance though He does avenge. These are attributes, love is essence. Therefore, God is unchangeably love. Therefore, in judgment He is love, in wrath He is love, in vengeance He is love-" love first, and last, and midst, and without end.” -Christ Triumphant-
I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST, by William Barclay
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
"What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath–prepared for destruction." Romans 9:22
Fitted=katartivzw
Katartivzw=
To render or to fit.
To make sound or complete.
To mend what has been broken or rent.
To repair what has been broken or rent.
“And this brings us face to face with a blunder of our traditional creed, which is radical. It talks of God's love as though that stood merely on a par with His justice though it were something belonging to Him which He puts on or off. It is hardly possible to open a religious book in which this fatal error is not found; fatal, because it virtually strikes out of the Gospel its fundamental truth, that GOD IS LOVE. The terms are equivalent. They can be interchanged. God is not anger though He can be angry, God is not vengeance though He does avenge. These are attributes, love is essence. Therefore, God is unchangeably love. Therefore, in judgment He is love, in wrath He is love, in vengeance He is love-" love first, and last, and midst, and without end.” -Christ Triumphant-
I AM A CONVINCED UNIVERSALIST, by William Barclay
Why does the Saviour of all mankind preach to the dead?
"For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
F.W. Weymouth=
"For it is with this end in view that the Good News was proclaimed even to some who were dead, that they may be judged, as all mankind will be judged, in the body, but may be living a godly life in the spirit."
Robertson Word Pictures Of The New Testament -A. T. Robertson
Philippians 2:10
"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampshi).
First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina.
Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.
Under the earth (kataxtoniwn).
Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T."
"For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
F.W. Weymouth=
"For it is with this end in view that the Good News was proclaimed even to some who were dead, that they may be judged, as all mankind will be judged, in the body, but may be living a godly life in the spirit."
Robertson Word Pictures Of The New Testament -A. T. Robertson
Philippians 2:10
"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampshi).
First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina.
Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.
Under the earth (kataxtoniwn).
Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T."
F.L. is getting really lonely over here in this little corner of Religious Forums. Really lonely (some say looney), but whatever your persuasion>>>>>
Lest anyone is paying attention, let's take a brief look at the Letter of St Peter, in particular Chapter 3 & 4 of 1 Peter.
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.
For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Why?
For you who may be tuning in to this thread, the answer will be coming in the next post.
Lest anyone is paying attention, let's take a brief look at the Letter of St Peter, in particular Chapter 3 & 4 of 1 Peter.
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.
For unto this end was the gospel preached even to the dead, that they might be judged indeed according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
Why?
For you who may be tuning in to this thread, the answer will be coming in the next post.
- Status