Would you believe in God if holy texts were different

ideogenous_mover said:

Imagine if a being from the heavens were to come, very powerful in every way, and very knowledgeable. Imagine the being helped us. That it conveyed all the knowledge we asked, and every day healed the sick. If it then one day asked everyone to worship it, to build a temple for it, would you worship it? Think of how much it helped us.

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So your being is proposing a deal ─ my smarts in return for your sucking ?

What a weird being! We'd immediately wish to understand whether ulterior motives were involved, and the nature of the being's gratification, so that we could go on milking the cow at minimum risk and cost, no?

It would be especially important to find out how the being did what it did, not least but not only the beneficial things.

blü 2 said:

So your being is proposing a deal ─ my smarts in return for your sucking ?

What a weird being! We'd immediately wish to understand whether ulterior motives were involved, and the nature of the being's gratification, so that we could go on milking the cow at minimum risk and cost, no?

It would be especially important to find out how the being did what it did, not least but not only the beneficial things.

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You did not answer the question

InChrist said:

To start with, I don't think it's a matter of initially believing in "my God" or any particular God. So no, I am not going to say you are lying. The passage I posted states that creation testifies that there is a Creator, something or someone, responsible for the natural world and life we see.

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Yes, but calling the universe "creation" begs the question. Creation presumes a Creator. And a Creator is not just a something, it is a someone. And that is precisely what non-theists take issue with, and what theists need to demonstrate if they want to posit God as the explanation for the universe. In general I have no problem acknowledging that, of course, something caused the state of affairs I see around me. The question is entirely what that something (or many things) actually is. And theists have not met the burden of proof. So again, your scripture is simply logically fallacious and incorrect.

It also points out that anyone who doesn't acknowledges this obvious reality

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Again, it is not an obvious reality that a someone caused the universe. That is a claim you would need to actually demonstrate.

is making a willful choice to ignore the hallmarks of this Creator in the creation that surrounds us every day.

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What hallmarks? Can you give an example?

In other words, we first acknowledge or reject the Creator.

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I haven't "rejected" anything. Theists have put forward a claim and havent met their burden of proof. They could be right about their claim, but I have no reason to accept that until they actually demonstrate what they're claiming, which so far they haven't.

Rejection leads to a refusal to give thanks to the Creator for providing all we need.

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All we need for what? If you mean life on this Earth, that's clearly untrue. People die everyday because they don't have what they need to survive.

When a person does not acknowledge the creator and provider , we cannot arrive at a right understanding of how the universe works. Our thinking about everything is futile which leads to wrong conclusions and, eventually, to a darkened mind and heart. Everything one ends up believing then is based on wrong assumptions about the universe and one's place in it and people end up worshiping created things, instead of the Creator.

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I don't worship anything, created or otherwise.

Actually Christians are very much in agreement on the essentials of the faith

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Lol oh come on @InChrist. If you've been a Christian for any decent length of time you surely know that's not true. Even the very next thing you said exposes this:

and according to the testimony of the scriptures, God did come down here, in the Person of Jesus Christ.

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Not all Christians believe this. Millions don't, actually.

Not to mention:

1) Is Jesus one of three Persons in the Trinity? Or is he one of three manifestations of the same Person, along with the Father and the Spirit (Oneness theology)?
2) Is baptism necessary for salvation? Should babies be baptized? What's the proper method of baptism?
3) Are good works necessary for salvation?
4) Can salvation be lost?
5) Is the Eucharist actually the Body and Blood of Christ, or simply a symbol of his sacrifice?
6) is the Church an infallible source of doctrinal teaching, or are the Scriptures alone infallible?

And that's not an exhaustive list by any means. I'm sure you have an answer from your own tradition on every one of those questions; my point is not for you to answer them. My point is that whatever answers you would give, millions of Bible-believing Christians would differ with you. On virtually every doctrinal issue Christians are wildly at odds with one another.
The only way to avoid acknowledging this problem is to define anyone who identifies as Christian but doesn't agree with whatever list of "essentials" you've compiled as "not a true Christian." But they can just as easily do the same to you. And we're back to the same problem I've already identified.

Jesus also spoke the truth plainly and clarified exactly what God thinks about everything.

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That is also untrue, even according to your own scriptures. Jesus intentionally spoke in parables to the masses so they WOULDN'T understand the true meaning of his teachings. He only gave the real scoop to his hand-picked smaller group of disciples (cf. Mark 4).

Really, how obscure or difficult is it to comprehend words, such as: "Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”?

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Again, you've either not thought much about this, or you havent been a Christian very long, or you've been extremely isolated from Christians outside your tradition. A few giant disagreements that have have arisen from these commandments include:
1) Is abortion a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
2) Is war a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
3) Is the death penalty a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
4) Is divorce a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
5) Is remarriage a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
6) Is lying always a sin? Even when the truth might cause harm?

And so on. Again, my point is not for you to answer these questions, I'm sure you have opinions on each of them that you think are Biblical. My point is that Christians cannot agree among themselves about virtually any major theological or moral teaching, and they all claim to be gleaning their opinions from the same source. Obviously, it's not working.

So again, if you were an all-powerful being who loved everyone and wanted everyone to know exactly what you thought and expected of them, wouldn't you come down here, right now, and clarify these things for good?

Left Coast said:

Yes, but calling the universe "creation" begs the question. Creation presumes a Creator. And a Creator is not just a something, it is a someone. And that is precisely what non-theists take issue with, and what theists need to demonstrate if they want to posit God as the explanation for the universe. In general I have no problem acknowledging that, of course, something caused the state of affairs I see around me. The question is entirely what that something (or many things) actually is. And theists have not met the burden of proof. So again, your scripture is simply logically fallacious and incorrect.


Again, it is not an obvious reality that a someone caused the universe. That is a claim you would need to actually demonstrate.


What hallmarks? Can you give an example?


I haven't "rejected" anything. Theists have put forward a claim and havent met their burden of proof. They could be right about their claim, but I have no reason to accept that until they actually demonstrate what they're claiming, which so far they haven't.


All we need for what? If you mean life on this Earth, that's clearly untrue. People die everyday because they don't have what they need to survive.


I don't worship anything, created or otherwise.


Lol oh come on @InChrist. If you've been a Christian for any decent length of time you surely know that's not true. Even the very next thing you said exposes this:



Not all Christians believe this. Millions don't, actually.

Not to mention:

1) Is Jesus one of three Persons in the Trinity? Or is he one of three manifestations of the same Person, along with the Father and the Spirit (Oneness theology)?
2) Is baptism necessary for salvation? Should babies be baptized? What's the proper method of baptism?
3) Are good works necessary for salvation?
4) Can salvation be lost?
5) Is the Eucharist actually the Body and Blood of Christ, or simply a symbol of his sacrifice?
6) is the Church an infallible source of doctrinal teaching, or are the Scriptures alone infallible?

And that's not an exhaustive list by any means. I'm sure you have an answer from your own tradition on every one of those questions; my point is not for you to answer them. My point is that whatever answers you would give, millions of Bible-believing Christians would differ with you. On virtually every doctrinal issue Christians are wildly at odds with one another.
The only way to avoid acknowledging this problem is to define anyone who identifies as Christian but doesn't agree with whatever list of "essentials" you've compiled as "not a true Christian." But they can just as easily do the same to you. And we're back to the same problem I've already identified.


That is also untrue, even according to your own scriptures. Jesus intentionally spoke in parables to the masses so they WOULDN'T understand the true meaning of his teachings. He only gave the real scoop to his hand-picked smaller group of disciples (cf. Mark 4).



Again, you've either not thought much about this, or you havent been a Christian very long, or you've been extremely isolated from Christians outside your tradition. A few giant disagreements that have have arisen from these commandments include:
1) Is abortion a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
2) Is war a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
3) Is the death penalty a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
4) Is divorce a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
5) Is remarriage a sin? In all circumstances? In some?
6) Is lying always a sin? Even when the truth might cause harm?

And so on. Again, my point is not for you to answer these questions, I'm sure you have opinions on each of them that you think are Biblical. My point is that Christians cannot agree among themselves about virtually any major theological or moral teaching, and they all claim to be gleaning their opinions from the same source. Obviously, it's not working.

So again, if you were an all-powerful being who loved everyone and wanted everyone to know exactly what you thought and expected of them, wouldn't you come down here, right now, and clarify these things for good?

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Such a long post! Too much for me to deal with tonight.

I will say, though, that while the visible world of Christianity may look to you as if it's not working (and I would agree, if the outward organized churches were all there was to it) but Jesus is building His body of those called out from this world and He is not failing to bring unity. I think it is working just as the scriptures reveal.

At one time, before being born again I used to see things from only the outside like you do. I really thought all Christians should be on the exact same page, at the exact same moment with every detail.

InChrist said:

I didn't see any threats in the verses I posted. I wasn't trying to impress you and I doubt God has any need to impress. The scriptures simply state reality for anyone who wants to know.

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Phrases along the lines of "If you don't do this then you won't get that" are threats.
Again, this response infers that I don't want to know.. yes, I do. I want knowledge but I turn to verifiable sources.

ideogenous_mover said:

You did not answer the question

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You want an explicit answer? If I understood what it wanted and why it wanted it, and saw no downside, then in return for benefits worth the expenditure, I'd be inclined to offer it what it wanted. But if it demanded sincere worship, I'd be unable to oblige it.

InChrist said:

Such a long post! Too much for me to deal with tonight.

I will say, though, that while the visible world of Christianity may look to you as if it's not working (and I would agree, if the outward organized churches were all there was to it) but Jesus is building His body of those called out from this world and He is not failing to bring unity.

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By what evidence are you judging this?

At one time, before being born again I used to see things from only the outside like you do. I really thought all Christians should be on the exact same page, at the exact same moment with every detail.

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First of all, I too used to be a Christian. So I have not seen Christianity only from the outside.
Second of all, give me a break. I did not say Christians "should be on the exact same page, at the exact same moment with every detail." You made a claim: Christians are "very much in agreement on the essentials of the faith." What "essentials" are they in agreement on, then? Your very first example of what you think the scriptures "clearly teach" is a major point of contention between believers, one of the earliest in your religion's history.

1213 said:

Funny thing is, the principle is actually very clear in the Bible, “love your neighbor as yourself” in that all the law and prophets is fulfilled. But still, I don’t think most people want to accept that.

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What if you hate yourself?
Or what if your neighbour is Adolf Hitler?

ideogenous_mover said:

What I'm saying is that if any of those things were explained in perfect detail by a prophet, wouldn't that be convincing? Why would the ultimate being leave that stuff for us to figure out with few clues as how to approach them.

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It's worse actually....

Because plenty of things in those "holy books" actually contradict such facts that we've discovered since those stories were written down.

So not only did the supposedly all knowing creator of the universe not drop a SINGLE hint about how his creation actually works... he actually also "revealed" things that simply can't be squared with these facts. Almost as if the authors of those stories had no clue about said facts....

TagliatelliMonster said:

What if you hate yourself?
Or what if your neighbour is Adolf Hitler?

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I have understood love means that person cares without conditions. And that means, he doesn’t do to others anything that he would not want to be done to him. And that can often mean for example that person asks form other, is it ok to do something, before doing it.

And it means, even if person is evil or bad, you don’t do evil or bad things.

Left Coast said:

By what evidence are you judging this?


First of all, I too used to be a Christian. So I have not seen Christianity only from the outside.
Second of all, give me a break. I did not say Christians "should be on the exact same page, at the exact same moment with every detail." You made a claim: Christians are "very much in agreement on the essentials of the faith." What "essentials" are they in agreement on, then? Your very first example of what you think the scriptures "clearly teach" is a major point of contention between believers, one of the earliest in your religion's history.

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Yeah, and I used to be a "Christian" too. I was raised Catholic, my entire extended family is Catholic. I went to church every Sunday; catechism classes, confession, communion, confirmation, etc. I even believed in God out there somewhere.. but I was not a Christian. Those things did not make me a Christian. I've known enough people raised in or who attend other churches or denominations that are only practicing a religion, like I was, who believe they are Christians, yet do not know Jesus. I became a Christian when I realized my need for Jesus personally and trusted Him alone to save me from my sins. Then and only then was I born from above and began to see everything in a different light. A Christian who knows Jesus, who lives daily in His love, does not leave Jesus, nor does Jesus lose one who is a new creation in Christ. There is no way one who is in an eternal. loving relationship with Jesus Christ would ever say... "I used to be a Christian". As Peter said to Jesus when some others were leaving, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68).

All those who in Christ are in agreement that Jesus is God, the Son who came to dwell in human flesh, go to the cross for the sins of the world, and who rose again in victory over sin and death, offering forgiveness and eternal life to all who believe in Him. With regard to differences, God is continually at work in each believer's life,wherever they are at in their circumstances and understanding, teaching, growing and ultimately bringing about unity in Christ. (Ephesians 4)

Altfish said:

Phrases along the lines of "If you don't do this then you won't get that" are threats.
Again, this response infers that I don't want to know.. yes, I do. I want knowledge but I turn to verifiable sources.

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I don't quite get what is so threatening about reality or instructions. I mean do you feel threatened by your owner's manual for your appliances or car?

From my perspective, the power, beauty, artistry, order, and design of life, the earth, and the universe are obvious and verifiable sources which reveal a Creator.

InChrist said:

I don't quite get what is so threatening about reality or instructions. I mean do you feel threatened by your owner's manual for your appliances or car?

From my perspective, the power, beauty, artistry, order, and design of life, the earth, and the universe are obvious and verifiable sources which reveal a Creator.

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Imagine if you say to a child, "You must tidy your bedroom; or I won't buy you an ice cream" - that isn't an instruction it is a threat.
If you say, "The brush is in the cupboard, the duster is in the draw, use the air freshener" That is like an owners manual. There are no repercussions for failure to do it.

InChrist said:

Yeah, and I used to be a "Christian" too. I was raised Catholic, my entire extended family is Catholic. I went to church every Sunday; catechism classes, confession, communion, confirmation, etc. I even believed in God out there somewhere.. but I was not a Christian. Those things did not make me a Christian. I've known enough people raised in or who attend other churches or denominations that are only practicing a religion, like I was, who believe they are Christians, yet do not know Jesus.

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Aaand there it is, called it. The Christians who don't agree with your list of essentials aren't "real Christians."

I became a Christian when I realized my need for Jesus personally and trusted Him alone to save me from my sins. Then and only then was I born from above and began to see everything in a different light. A Christian who knows Jesus, who lives daily in His love, does not leave Jesus, nor does Jesus lose one who is a new creation in Christ. There is no way one who is in an eternal. loving relationship with Jesus Christ would ever say... "I used to be a Christian".

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No True Scotsman

All those who in Christ are in agreement that Jesus is God, the Son who came to dwell in human flesh, go to the cross for the sins of the world, and who rose again in victory over sin and death, offering forgiveness and eternal life to all who believe in Him.

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Again, that is your interpretation of the essential requirements to be a Christian. For the fourth or fifth time, my point is that many, many Christians do not agree with you, and that has been the case for the entire history of your religion.

With regard to differences, God is continually at work in each believer's life,wherever they are at in their circumstances and understanding, teaching, growing and ultimately bringing about unity in Christ. (Ephesians 4)

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Again, it isn't working. Believers are widely divided on a myriad of major issues, including those considered essential. There is zero evidence I'm aware of that these divisions have any sign of abating. Please, present evidence to the contrary if you have it.

And again, I dont know why you won't just answer the question: if you were an all powerful being who loved everyone and wanted everyone to know the truth about your teachings and expectations, wouldn't you just come down here and indisputably settle it for everyone?

Left Coast said:

Aaand there it is, called it. The Christians who don't agree with your list of essentials aren't "real Christians."


No True Scotsman


Again, that is your interpretation of the essential requirements to be a Christian. For the fourth or fifth time, my point is that many, many Christians do not agree with you, and that has been the case for the entire history of your religion.


Again, it isn't working. Believers are widely divided on a myriad of major issues, including those considered essential. There is zero evidence I'm aware of that these divisions have any sign of abating. Please, present evidence to the contrary if you have it.

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I do not define who is a Christian or who is not, it is the God's word which does so and states plain enough that belief in Jesus as one's Savior and being born again to new life is that which defines a Christian. The definition cannot simply be changed, nor the scriptures interpreted to suit one's personal preference, including mine or yours. It's no different than anything else in life. Someone can't simply claim to be a police investigator or a surgeon just because they like mysteries, detective or doctor shows and feel like they are good at figuring out crimes or cutting things. There are certain requirements before one can legitimately claim to be a police detective or surgeon.
I'm sure I cannot give you any evidence which would satisfy you and why should I anyway? You don't even have Jesus in your life to begin with, so you would never see, nor be willing to the unity believers have in Him. I have been involved in a variety of churches and groups of Christians over many years where there have been plenty of doctrinal differences. I have friends from a lot of different denominations and/or backgrounds, yet on the essential issues concerning Christ, His life, death, resurrection, to save sinners, we agree, there is always unity among believers.

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 1 Corinthians 15:3-5

Left Coast said:

And again, I dont know why you won't just answer the question: if you were an all powerful being who loved everyone and wanted everyone to know the truth about your teachings and expectations, wouldn't you just come down here and indisputably settle it for everyone?

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I did answer. I said God already came down and expressed love for everyone. He entered into human history, accomplished all that was needed for humanity to know the truth, left record and settled it for everyone for all time. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
What do you expect, that God should visit the earth over and over again, every ten years, once a year, or what?

Altfish said:

Imagine if you say to a child, "You must tidy your bedroom; or I won't buy you an ice cream" - that isn't an instruction it is a threat.
If you say, "The brush is in the cupboard, the duster is in the draw, use the air freshener" That is like an owners manual. There are no repercussions for failure to do it.

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Every owner's manual I've ever read has warnings concerning things which could cause damage or harm if the item, whatever it is, is not used properly. This is no different than the warnings in the Bible which are not threats, but simply common sense and given for safety and well-being.

InChrist said:

I do not define who is a Christian or who is not, it is the God's word which does so

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Sorry, but bull. That is what every Christian church and denomination says, including the ones who don't agree with your essentials. You are not just relaying "what God's Word says," you are interpreting it. It is unavoidable.

and states plain enough that belief in Jesus as one's Savior and being born again to new life is that which defines a Christian.

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What it means to "be born again to new life" is exactly one of the essentials that Christians disagree about. Are you aware of that?

The definition cannot simply be changed, nor the scriptures interpreted to suit one's personal preference, including mine or yours.

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Tell it to the churches and traditions that have been around much longer than your born again, Evangelical brand. Because that's exactly what they think you do.

It's no different than anything else in life. Someone can't simply claim to be a police investigator or a surgeon just because they like mysteries, detective or doctor shows and feel like they are good at figuring out crimes or cutting things. There are certain requirements before one can legitimately claim to be a police detective or surgeon.

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I agree. And we have living, breathing human beings here on this planet who make the rules and clarify the rules society accepts regarding who qualifies as a surgeon or a police detective. We don't rely on texts that are thousands of years old written by people we can't ask questions to.

So again, why doesn't God come down here and answer our questions and clarify things for us?

I'm sure I cannot give you any evidence which would satisfy you and why should I anyway? You don't even have Jesus in your life to begin with, so you would never see, nor be willing to the unity believers have in Him.

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Ad hominem. You may attack my lack of faith all you want, it doesnt change the facts I've laid out, and the fact that you haven't presented any evidence other than your say-so regarding Christian unity.

I did answer. I said God already came down and expressed love for everyone. He entered into human history, accomplished all that was needed for humanity to know the truth, left record and settled it for everyone for all time.

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For the final time, he clearly did not settle it for all time because his followers have been hopelessly in disagreement with each other from the word go, as evidenced by the multiple "essential" doctrinal disputes I mentioned.

What do you expect, that God should visit the earth over and over again, every ten years, once a year, or what?

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Yes! Why did he ever leave? He should have stuck around. If God showed himself to so many people in the Bible, why can't he do it for us?

Left Coast said:

Ad hominem. You may attack my lack of faith all you want, it doesnt change the facts I've laid out, and the fact that you haven't presented any evidence other than your say-so regarding Christian unity.

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It appears that your lack of faith is simply a reality which you yourself have shared and made clear, so I am not attacking your lack of faith, simply acknowledging what you have stated. The scriptures are clear that if a person does not believe in or know Christ then then they are spiritually blind, so it really would make no difference what evidence I present to you, would it?

Left Coast said:

Yes! Why did he ever leave? He should have stuck around. If God showed himself to so many people in the Bible, why can't he do it for us?

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When He did show Himself some believed, but many also rejected Him even though they saw Him in the flesh, experienced His love, or saw healings and miracles. They still crucified Him! How many times did God demonstrate His love, guidance, and power right before the eyes of the children of Israel and yet they still disbelieved and repeatedly fell away? Do you really think that people visibly seeing God is always going to be enough if one's heart and attitude is not right toward God to start with? If having their own way or clinging to their sin is more important?

1213 said:

Funny thing is, the principle is actually very clear in the Bible, “love your neighbor as yourself” in that all the law and prophets is fulfilled.

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Except for all the times when the rule seems to be "kill everyone who irritates you."

shmogie said:

Everything is perfectly crystal clear and simple in the NT. Everything you need to know. You can learn the way to God and salvation in 45 minutes of reading.

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Not when you have multiple types of Jesus' running around.

InChrist said:

The passage I posted states that creation testifies that there is a Creator, something or someone, responsible for the natural world and life we see. It also points out that anyone who doesn't acknowledges this obvious reality is making a willful choice to ignore the hallmarks of this Creator in the creation that surrounds us every day.

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But it's not like the man who stated this was a PhD or anything.

InChrist said:

Jesus also spoke the truth plainly and clarified exactly what God thinks about everything.

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He really didn't.

InChrist said:

Really, how obscure or difficult is it to comprehend words, such as: "Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”?

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Jesus didn't invent those sayings.

InChrist said:

I do not define who is a Christian or who is not, it is the God's word which does so and states plain enough that belief in Jesus as one's Savior and being born again to new life is that which defines a Christian.

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Pity valuing truth/facts isn't part of the deal.

InChrist said:

Someone can't simply claim to be a police investigator or a surgeon just because they like mysteries, detective or doctor shows and feel like they are good at figuring out crimes or cutting things.

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And not everyone can be a mouthpiece for God just because they liked to preach.

InChrist said:

You don't even have Jesus in your life to begin with, so you would never see, nor be willing to the unity believers have in Him

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If God is omnipresent, there is no such thing as not being a part of His life. There is no way to Him. He is everywhere.

InChrist said:

What do you expect, that God should visit the earth over and over again, every ten years, once a year, or what?

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Yahweh's lazier than Vishnu?

InChrist said:

The scriptures are clear that if a person does not believe in or know Christ then then they are spiritually blind

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Why should we trust the claimant?

InChrist said:

They still crucified Him!

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If he hadn't acted like a terrorist, at least in the eyes of the Romans, he wouldn't have been. They didn't go around crucifying all Jews, after all, just the biggest troublemakers.

InChrist said:

How many times did God demonstrate His love, guidance, and power right before the eyes of the children of Israel and yet they still disbelieved and repeatedly fell away?

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The Prince of Peace attacked people with a whip. That might give some people pause.

ideogenous_mover said:

Could the written material actually play a major role in what is stopping you from believing? There are many ways the material could probably be different. In the bible there is an emphasis on war at times, and the morality can be quite ancient and severe. If alternatively, the bible was a pure doctrine of the best clear cut philosophical morals, with no parsing through metaphor and hard to understand riddle-like wisdom, would that make more of an impression on you. What if it even contained science, perhaps conveyed to prophets, telling us how to produce the best medicines or engineer electrics cars the best way. Or organize cities and government most efficiently, in a manner that was straight to the point. Instead, it obliges you to dig laboriously through ancient stories from the iron age like an archeologist. And from a long story of twists and turns arcane and hard to understand, you wrest from it what you believe is some relevant ingot of wisdom. But what if everything were crystal clear, with no twists and turns and controversy. With one simple testament relevant to all of modernity with principles clear as a mountain stream, with no need for clashing schools of interpretation and debate.

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I cannot lie. It is easier for me to believe in God because I have grown up in a family and faith community that believed in God and studying a sacred text that assumed him existence. It meant that as a child I simply never questioned.

But you know what? I grew up, and I questioned. I'm the kind of personality that is infinitely curious. There isn't anything that I haven't asked, very little that I haven't done, and no stone that I've left unturned. I have been absolutely RUTHLESS in my desire for truth and openness to understand other points of view (if for no other reason than to understand my fellow human beings).

That means that as an adult I became aware that I was sheltered, and I wondered if my belief in God were not simply my childhood conditioning. I began to look into the arguments as to whether God existed or not. I came to the conclusion that God could be neither proved nor disproved. So why am I not a plain old agnostic?

It's because I trust my perceptions. I experience God. If I didn't trust what I sense, I would have to admit that I'm insane, and that would be so unnerving that I couldn't live with it. I just don't think that state of mind is normal.

I am also convinced by the scientific evidence that not believing in God is deleterious to a person. Participation in a religious makes you healthier, more mentally stable, happier, and longer lived. Being an agnostic is just maladaptive.

Finally, I just can't bring myself to believe the universe is without overall purpose. Again, I trust my perception that it is designed. Design implies a designer. Even chimpanzees exalt in worship at the wonders of nature, dancing in ecstasy at the awesomeness of a waterfall or a thunderstorm. It just doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand this. So despite the lack of persuasive arguments, I believe on the basis of my spiritual perceptions.

So I guess that you can call me a an agnostic theist. Or something like that. I simply believe in God in my own way for my own reasons.