For people who are working to help bring out the best possibilities in science and religion

Note: When I first posted this, the title said “science and science” instead of “science and religion.”

I’m posting this in a non-debate forum, because I’m not inviting debate. This is for people who are working to help bring out the best possibilities in in science and religion, to get ideas and encouragement from each each other, if anyone wants to, and if that’s possible in an Internet forum like this.

(edit) What I'm asking for here is for people who are working, themselves personally in their own ways, to help bring out the best possibilities in science and religion. One question in particular is what you or I, or anyone else reading this, might be able to do, to hold up the light of science and religion high enough for people to see it above the clouds that are covering it up and diverting attention from it. I've given examples of what I mean by "clouds" in one of my posts below.(end edit)

What’s on my mind right now is the layers and layers of imitations, misinformation, misuses, prejudices, disputation and animosities around science and religion, that are obscuring their light and diverting attention from it. I’m not sure if we need to pay any attention to any of that and try to do anything about it, or not. Is it better to ignore all that, and just try to hold up the light where people can see it? However that may be, what can we do to hold up the light?

Bah.

Science, without religion, is meaningless. Without a moral compass of some sort you get wonderful labor-saving devices like this.



Well, surely something like wind power is harmless... Oh wait, no it's not.

How Do Wind Turbines Kill Birds?

Everything has light and darkness to it. Accepting this is the Tao, and means one understands the risks and drawbacks and can use it responsibly. Christians also get accused of being anti-science. They're not, they're against science for its own sake, since even labor-saving devices contribute to obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.

I can code, and probably could invent stuff if I set my mind to it. I wouldn't. Instead, I write and make art. Science, for all its promised benefits, has too many blind followers. I'd prefer a world in balance. Something more like the 1980s where big cities are are surrounded with alot less depressing suburbs and alot more farms, forests, and small towns. A place where people have a distinct sense of balance between the wonder and magic of the natural world, and the hustle and bustle of cities.

So here's what I propose instead of whatever vision you've got in your head:

1. Remember Tomorrowland? How the entire city as surrounded by grain fields? Start with that.
2. Next, make clean power sources that actually are. Currently, our "alternative" energy sources are largely greenwashing (for those who don't know the term, it means making something sound green than it really is, like the aforementioned bird-killer turbines or electric cars where the area uses coal power). When stuff really is clean, you get stuff like internal (rather than source-based) electric devices. This will require an overhaul of everything, starting with better batteries, and better metallurgy.
   
3. Focus less work on improving wireless cellular (there is some amount of fear that the 5G uses microwave radiation in unhealthy amounts), and more on testing technology for safety. Ditto with self-driving cars (a hacker driving you off a cliff? Ummm no).
   
4. Lastly, clean water and air, and productive farming are far better things to be working on than half of what we currently are developing. Having greenhouses that can be built in a tundra, desert, or even underwater, and adjust the climate would be an ideal invention.
   
5. Also, we don't need any more destructive weapons. What I'd like to see is people would on force fields. When people can't fire missiles at each other, much of the sting of war is gone.

In short, I can envision a world where things a alot more in balance, where people just keep to themselves unless they want to trade, and otherwise farmers just do their thing and cities develop more cleanly and stuff. I can also see a world where people worship science for its own sake, and blindly pursue things that are destructive. Wanna make weapons that can destroy planets? Because that can happen too.

It might be useful to think about where the light of science and religion can best be seen. I’m thinking, in some of the stories.

@Samantha Rinne There’s a mistake in the title. I meant for it to say “... science and religion.”

Yeah I read it after the fact. Pffft, science and more science!

Jim said:

It might be useful to think about where the light of science and religion can best be seen. I’m thinking, in some of the stories.

Click to expand...

I see you trying so hard to make things better.....but don't you see how futile it is? Humans will never succeed in fixing this mess that they created.....greed for wealth and power will not let them. Corruption is always lurking in every endeavor. The human race is broken and only God can fix us.

I believe that God is testing us all out to see who has the qualities that he is looking for to become citizens of his incoming Kingdom. He has already chosen its rulers, so now he is sifting the human race to see who the real 'wheat' are, and who are the 'weeds'. We tell him by our thoughts and actions if we are a humble sheep or a stubborn goat.

God's Kingdom will "come" ready or not, (Daniel 2:44) and he will see to it that his will is done "on earth as it is in heaven". But we have to be found doing his will now, otherwise we will suffer rejection and lose our place in the Kingdom forever. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The future will be wonderful according to Revelation 21:2-4. But it will never be brought about by man. Christ and his "bride" will bring these blessings to obedient mankind.

Jim said:

Note: When I first posted this, the title said “science and science” instead of “science and religion.”

I’m posting this in a non-debate forum, because I’m not inviting debate. This is for people who are working to help bring out the best possibilities in in science and religion, to get ideas and encouragement from each each other, if anyone wants to, and if that’s possible in an Internet forum like this.

Click to expand...

I believe that too long education has only been about job-oriented technical and analytical expertise. Its high time to teach ethical thinking and empathy building and self-growth in schools as well and give it as much importance as science and humanities.

Deeje said:

I see you trying so hard to make things better.....but don't you see how futile it is? Humans will never succeed in fixing this mess that they created.....greed for wealth and power will not let them. Corruption is always lurking in every endeavor. The human race is broken and only God can fix us.

I believe that God is testing us all out to see who has the qualities that he is looking for to become citizens of his incoming Kingdom. He has already chosen its rulers, so now he is sifting the human race to see who the real 'wheat' are, and who are the 'weeds'. We tell him by our thoughts and actions if we are a humble sheep or a stubborn goat.

God's Kingdom will "come" ready or not, (Daniel 2:44) and he will see to it that his will is done "on earth as it is in heaven". But we have to be found doing his will now, otherwise we will suffer rejection and lose our place in the Kingdom forever. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The future will be wonderful according to Revelation 21:2-4. But t will never be brought about by man. Christ and his "bride" will bring these blessings to obedient mankind.

Click to expand...

No. Humans will be able to achieve it, no reason to consider it futile at all. All that is happening is expected, the good and the bad.

Deeje said:

Humans will never succeed in fixing this mess that they created.....greed for wealth and power will not let them. Corruption is always lurking in every endeavor. The human race is broken and only God can fix us.

I believe that God is testing us all out to see who has the qualities that he is looking for to become citizens of his incoming Kingdom. He has already chosen its rulers, so now he is sifting the human race to see who the real 'wheat' are, and who are the 'weeds'. We tell him by our thoughts and actions if we are a humble sheep or a stubborn goat.

God's Kingdom will "come" ready or not, (Daniel 2:44) and he will see to it that his will is done "on earth as it is in heaven". But we have to be found doing his will now, otherwise we will suffer rejection and lose our place in the Kingdom forever. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The future will be wonderful according to Revelation 21:2-4. But it will never be brought about by man. Christ and his "bride" will bring these blessings to obedient mankind.

Click to expand...

Nice thoughts and wishes indeed, but I wouldn´t count on this.

In the Vestern culture we have invented a personal God who is completely indifferent with human conditions and "the Jesus story" is just a astronomical and mythical telling and not a story of an ancient person who "once saved the humans".

I´m afraid the human and climate conditions is just up to us humans and that´s it. It´s a question of making "good karma" - or dealing with the bad karma that we create.

Jim said:

Note: When I first posted this, the title said “science and science” instead of “science and religion.”

I’m posting this in a non-debate forum, because I’m not inviting debate. This is for people who are working to help bring out the best possibilities in in science and religion, to get ideas and encouragement from each each other, if anyone wants to, and if that’s possible in an Internet forum like this.

(edit) What I'm asking for here is for people who are working, themselves personally in their own ways, to help bring out the best possibilities in science and religion. One question in particular is what you or I, or anyone else reading this, might be able to do, to hold up the light of science and religion high enough for people to see it above the clouds that are covering it up and diverting attention from it. I've given examples of what I mean by "clouds" in one of my posts below.(end edit)

Click to expand...

Something of interest.
For Educators: How to Build Empathy and Strengthen Your School Community

Maybe of use if the OPs expression does not think that religion needs sciences and secular to gain a better...

The Karma of Happiness: A Buddhist Monk Looks at Positive Psychology

Worldlings could indeed learn much from certain religions. It's not so that binding for a good is something that dominates the world.

Marx-ideologies, if generously, help religion only that far as it could be of use for productivity. Greed, Aversion and Delusion grows.

It's not so that real religious people would run after those who have objectives only in the world of sensuality.

Thinking about where the light and the spirit at the heart of science and religion can be best seen, I'm thinking that it might be in stories. I'll be looking for stories of scientific discoveries, and stories from each religion, that best illustrate the light and the spirit at their heart. Maybe one way to hold up that light where people can see it above all the clouds, would be to tell anecdotes from those stories.

What about the "many" stories of engineers and scientiests who left that world behind and went from their homes into homelessness? As it is not so that general tendency of people strong attached to form would have much lack of scientists lures and information.

sayak83 said:

No. Humans will be able to achieve it, no reason to consider it futile at all. All that is happening is expected, the good and the bad.

Click to expand...

What is man's track record? Have humans ever been able to govern themselves without guidance from their Creator? They always seem to think they can manage quite well without him, but no matter what form of government they have tried, the wheels fall off and they prove that it never works in the long term. Corruption is always their undoing.

Why does power corrupt us?.....because it was never given to us in the first place. Man was created to be ruled by his Maker....when he tries to do it himself, it just never works.......it's as simple as that.

We are watching the death of democracy right now, with nation after nation in political and economic turmoil. The people are rising up and letting their leaders know that they are sick of the empty promises. What will they try next?

The Bible says that we can expect one last attempt.....a 'one world government' will take control, probably under the auspices of the UN. It will promise to bring peace and security to the earth, but the Bible predicts the opposite. The only way to control the world is to become totalitarian in its way of ruling. We have seen the transformation of the police force in many nations where they are now trained, heavy handed enforcers. I don't believe that this is a coincidence.

I think that the majority will learn the hard way that God is the rightful Universal Sovereign, and that he will rule this world whether we like it or not....and his kingdom will "come"....ready or not. I have no reason to dismiss the Bible's warning.

Time will tell......I guess.

Looks like one master of concentration battles against another for needed, desired costumes, as concentration also requires supply.

Does one know the story of God, when he was fallen into the bounds of Mara, holding scientists views?

Not sure if such is a desired story by good man Jim:

• MN 49: Brahma-nimantanika Sutta — The Brahma Invitation {M i 326} [Thanissaro].
  The Buddha disarms two powerful antagonists through his profound understanding of the nature of consciousness.

Click to expand...

IMO, science and religion must mesh even though they are looking for the Truth, whatever that may be, from different angles and using different approaches. For me, this really hits home because I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church that was basically anti-science, and I left that church in my mid-20's over that and the issue of racism in the church.

(Althought not for debates thought: Science look for ways to supply desires, which has the nature to do not end after stilling, while religions usually train to get ride of desires, their root, craving after worldly and provides alternatives.)

Samantha Rinne said:

Bah.

Science, without religion, is meaningless. Without a moral compass of some sort you get wonderful labor-saving devices like this.

Well, surely something like wind power is harmless... Oh wait, no it's not.

How Do Wind Turbines Kill Birds?

Everything has light and darkness to it. Accepting this is the Tao, and means one understands the risks and drawbacks and can use it responsibly. Christians also get accused of being anti-science. They're not, they're against science for its own sake, since even labor-saving devices contribute to obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.

I can code, and probably could invent stuff if I set my mind to it. I wouldn't. Instead, I write and make art. Science, for all its promised benefits, has too many blind followers. I'd prefer a world in balance. Something more like the 1980s where big cities are are surrounded with alot less depressing suburbs and alot more farms, forests, and small towns. A place where people have a distinct sense of balance between the wonder and magic of the natural world, and the hustle and bustle of cities.

So here's what I propose instead of whatever vision you've got in your head:

1. Remember Tomorrowland? How the entire city as surrounded by grain fields? Start with that.
2. Next, make clean power sources that actually are. Currently, our "alternative" energy sources are largely greenwashing (for those who don't know the term, it means making something sound green than it really is, like the aforementioned bird-killer turbines or electric cars where the area uses coal power). When stuff really is clean, you get stuff like internal (rather than source-based) electric devices. This will require an overhaul of everything, starting with better batteries, and better metallurgy.
   
3. Focus less work on improving wireless cellular (there is some amount of fear that the 5G uses microwave radiation in unhealthy amounts), and more on testing technology for safety. Ditto with self-driving cars (a hacker driving you off a cliff? Ummm no).
   
4. Lastly, clean water and air, and productive farming are far better things to be working on than half of what we currently are developing. Having greenhouses that can be built in a tundra, desert, or even underwater, and adjust the climate would be an ideal invention.
   
5. Also, we don't need any more destructive weapons. What I'd like to see is people would on force fields. When people can't fire missiles at each other, much of the sting of war is gone.

In short, I can envision a world where things a alot more in balance, where people just keep to themselves unless they want to trade, and otherwise farmers just do their thing and cities develop more cleanly and stuff. I can also see a world where people worship science for its own sake, and blindly pursue things that are destructive. Wanna make weapons that can destroy planets? Because that can happen too.

Click to expand...

The Islamists who go about blowing themselves and others up are using a religious moral compass.
Religion is not needed for a moral compass, and indeed moors it's followers to outdated modes of thinking.
And those that use it for one tend to cherry pick from their book and ignore the parts that condone things that we today consider as highly immoral.

What I’m thinking of as the light of science and religion might best be seen in some parts of the stories and the community life of each religion, and of scientific discoveries, where we can see the best kinds of love, for all people everywhere, for all of nature and for knowledge. Part of the clouds I see obscuring that light and diverting attention from it, is thinking of religion in terms of the systems of beliefs and practices that have accumulated and solidified around it. Another part of those clouds is thinking of science in terms of what media stories and faction propaganda say about reports of research. Another part of those clouds is the popularity of people masquerading and labeling what they think and do as “science” or as some religion that’s popular with some of their friends.