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How long before the collapse?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Im not really sure what you are trying to say, and what is going on with all the references to the bible? Is what you mean, that what its happening now is going according to what they bible say and the "wicked" will get what they deserve in the end, I think you lost me? :D

References to Scripture is because of what we can really learn from the Bible.
Yes, I find what is happening now 'is' going on now, or happening now as to what the Bible says.
The wicked will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7
Those ruining the earth will be brought to ruin as per Revelation 11:18 B.
We are nearing a soon coming ' time of separating ' to take place on earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The ' many ' who just claim to be Christian can be classed with those figurative haughty ' goats ' to be destroyed.
To me ' the you lost me ' is that the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of the wicked,
This is what we can learn found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
"The Management" is whoever or whatever keeps creating humans the way that they are, stupid and greedy and shortsighted.
Tom
Oh Tom, since we are all created with free-will choices then humans end up the way they want to end up.
The figurative humble 'sheep'-like humans found at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33,37 are counted as being righteous humans because they live by Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has. They are Not greedy, Not stupid, Not short sighted.
Thus, under Jesus ' New Management ' ( his coming millennium-long day of governing over earth ) there will be global Peace on Earth for persons of goodwill. The wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I think that this is one of the most evil teachings of religious people.
Teaching people not to bother about the biosphere or the fate of future generations, because God will rescue us, is just plain immoral and wrong.
Tom

Tom, I am wondering where you get the idea about Not bother to teach people about biosphere, etc.......
Even ' littering ' is scripturally wrong. In other words, to bring 'any' ruin to earth is scripturally wrong.
If everyone on Earth lived by the Golden Rule, and by Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35, then how much ruin would there be on Earth_________
 

siti

Well-Known Member
To ' maximize profits ' that sounds Not only like greedy merchants, but also greedy TV preachers.
It was about robots...but some robotic preachers might be instructed to maximize prophets I suppose...I think that bit is probably already happening though.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
References to Scripture is because of what we can really learn from the Bible.
Yes, I find what is happening now 'is' going on now, or happening now as to what the Bible says.
The wicked will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7
Those ruining the earth will be brought to ruin as per Revelation 11:18 B.
We are nearing a soon coming ' time of separating ' to take place on earth as found at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The ' many ' who just claim to be Christian can be classed with those figurative haughty ' goats ' to be destroyed.
To me ' the you lost me ' is that the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of the wicked,
This is what we can learn found at Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.

I think you have good intentions and all, but there are so many things of what you say here that makes little sense to me. :)

The promise of judgement day and how this will make everything right in the end, is just something I have never understood and how Christians find comfort in. It really seems more like a good way for those in power to make sure that those less fortunate than them can cling on to a hope that justice will be served. Said in another way, it seems a bit like a scam :)

Also according to the bible, those that are wicked are those that do not follow the law or is not obedient to God, nothing to do with ruining earth. If you read the bible, obedient and the law is pretty much the only thing God cares about.

Besides that if you think about it, im an atheist, yet I care deeply about how we treat earth and tries the best I can to do my part. But according to what you are saying Im going to end up with all the other "wicked" despite of this. So why should I care about earth, I don't have the "excuse" you have, that hopefully God will save me?

Matthew 5;17
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7;21
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

This is what is important to Jesus, nothing about taking care of Earth etc. I don't actually think there is anything in the bible about how to care or how one ought to treat animals or Earth in fact. So people in charge of businesses that exploit and causes huge damage to the environment and animals are not actually doing anything wrong, as long as they follow the will of God, said in another way, they follow the law of God.

I think that this is one of the most evil teachings of religious people.

Teaching people not to bother about the biosphere or the fate of future generations, because God will rescue us, is just plain immoral and wrong.

Tom
I think he have a point, even though I don't think its what Christians actually do. But it sort of sound like an excuse of "Don't worry, things will be fine.... just wait a bit longer and Jesus will sort it out". It does seem like a way to just throw any responsibilities away.

I honestly don't think that the bible have anything worth adding to this topic, it will not supply any solutions, which is what is needed. Whatever predictions people think there is in the bible is fine, but its just a bit sad that they didn't noticed them a lot earlier and warned Earth about it.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The promise of judgement day and how this will make everything right in the end, is just something I have never understood and how Christians find comfort in. It really seems more like a good way for those in power to make sure that those less fortunate than them can cling on to a hope that justice will be served. Said in another way, it seems a bit like a scam :)
Also according to the bible, those that are wicked are those that do not follow the law or is not obedient to God, nothing to do with ruining earth. If you read the bible, obedient and the law is pretty much the only thing God cares about.
Besides that if you think about it, im an atheist, yet I care deeply about how we treat earth and tries the best I can to do my part. But according to what you are saying Im going to end up with all the other "wicked" despite of this. So why should I care about earth, I don't have the "excuse" you have, that hopefully God will save me?
Matthew 5;17
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7;21
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
This is what is important to Jesus, nothing about taking care of Earth etc. I don't actually think there is anything in the bible about how to care or how one ought to treat animals or Earth in fact..............

I find you are Not alone in thinking that the Bible is just a hope or a crutch in order to think one has something.
According to Jesus at Revelation 11:18 B it has a lot to do about those ruining or destroying Earth.
Even polluting the Earth with litter is unscriptural. Littering is even breaking the Golden Rule.
Plus, right off the bat mankind was to care for earth and animal life on earth as per Genesis 1:28.
Under the Mosaic Law's constitution animals were Not to be mistreated.
For example: Exodus 23:4-5,12; Exodus 20:10; Deuteronomy 5:14; Deuteronomy 22:10; Deuteronomy 25:4

I notice you referred to verses about entering the > kingdom of heaven. (heaven)
Jesus was addressing those who were given the opportunity to be part of a first or earlier heavenly resurrection.
They were called to reign in heaven for a thousand years with Christ as kings and priests over > Earth.
Meaning governing over earthly subjects of God's kingdom.
Earthly subjects such as found mentioned at Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14.
Those corrupted religious leaders will Not end up in heaven, nor on earth, but destroyed as wicked ones.
The humble meek called to 'inherit the earth' are Not part of a first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10.
They have a later resurrection. That is why Acts 24:15 uses the future tense that there is going to be a resurrection.
Those of Matthew 7:21-23 are the fake ' weed/tares ' Christians claiming Jesus as Lord but proving false.
If Jesus has No concern about taking care of earth, then there would be No need to mention the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on earth as found at Revelation 22:2.
If everyone on earth lived by Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35 to have self-sacrificing love for others ( that would include animal life ) then earth would be cared for.
Because mankind is failing to live up to the Golden Rule and Jesus' New commandment is why God will have Jesus step in to come to the aid of righteous mankind.
By our choice actions we all now choose which side we are found on at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It was about robots...but some robotic preachers might be instructed to maximize prophets I suppose...I think that bit is probably already happening though.
I find when we turn on the TV it is obvious that more than some ' robotic preachers ' now maximize profits.
Jesus taught for free and instructed his followers to teach for free at Matthew 10:8 B.
There were No paid or salaried clergy in 1st-century Christianity.
Even the apostle, at Acts of the Apostles 18:3, worked at making tents to support himself in the voluntary ministry.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Plus, right off the bat mankind was to care for earth and animal life on earth as per Genesis 1:28.
Under the Mosaic Law's constitution animals were Not to be mistreated.
For example: Exodus 23:4-5,12; Exodus 20:10; Deuteronomy 5:14; Deuteronomy 22:10; Deuteronomy 25:4
I think you are misunderstanding most of these, obviously its beneficial for the animals if you understand them the way you do obviously :).

But I don't think these have anything to do with animal rights as such. But how do you find the bible and what is written here as a solution to the problems we are facing or how are these verse you link to going to help solve anything, that I don't really understand?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I think you are misunderstanding most of these, obviously its beneficial for the animals if you understand them the way you do obviously :).
But I don't think these have anything to do with animal rights as such. But how do you find the bible and what is written here as a solution to the problems we are facing or how are these verse you link to going to help solve anything, that I don't really understand?

OK, if everyone lived by or practiced the Golden Rule, then there would be ' animal rights ' and protection.
Just enforcing the Golden Rule would be a solution to problems we are now facing.
Just think if everyone on Earth lived by the Golden Rule, then there would also be No wars on Earth.
As to how the Golden Rule can be enforced, well it can't without man's co-operation, fear of breaking the Golden Rule is something missing in today's lack of morals, today's values.
Since the majority of mankind will Not live by the Golden Rule, then that leaves God Not choice but to involve Himself into mankind's affairs.
In other words, the passing of time has well proven that mankind can Not successfully direct himself.
Kind of like the old adage: Give a person enough rope and he will hang himself.
Given enough time and mankind has exposed himself as to what kind of person he really is.
The words, that 'wicked men and imposters will advance from bad to worse...' proves true - 2 Timothy 3:13
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
OK, if everyone lived by or practiced the Golden Rule, then there would be ' animal rights ' and protection.
Just enforcing the Golden Rule would be a solution to problems we are now facing.
Just think if everyone on Earth lived by the Golden Rule, then there would also be No wars on Earth.
As to how the Golden Rule can be enforced, well it can't without man's co-operation, fear of breaking the Golden Rule is something missing in today's lack of morals, today's values.
Since the majority of mankind will Not live by the Golden Rule, then that leaves God Not choice but to involve Himself into mankind's affairs.
In other words, the passing of time has well proven that mankind can Not successfully direct himself.
Kind of like the old adage: Give a person enough rope and he will hang himself.
Given enough time and mankind has exposed himself as to what kind of person he really is.
The words, that 'wicked men and imposters will advance from bad to worse...' proves true - 2 Timothy 3:13
I understand what you mean, even though I personally don't really like the "idea" behind the golden rule, since it doesn't really work. Think of a child molester or someone that likes pain, that wouldn't really work well with the golden rule :)

But anyway, I get your point. I think the issues with such approach is to assume that all people are in equal positions to live by the golden rule. A person suffering for hunger, will either have to die or steal if no one gives them food. My point being that you have way to many factors at play for the golden rule to really apply on the scale that is required.

Furthermore we could point fingers at certain companies, lets say Coca cola for instant, which uses around 3.5 - 4 liters of water to create a 1 liter of cola, including all the pollution that comes from making all the plastic and cans etc. But it doesn't really work, as people gladly buy their product, so pointing fingers at Cola is not really fair, I do think they try to reduce the amount of water they use and pollution etc. But at the same time they are trying to run a business. So its a shared problem and more or less an equal responsibility for every human. And to me if you want people to live by the "golden rule", which I agree with you is good, if we bend the meaning of it slightly. Then you have to change how we do business in the world, how the economy works. Because if companies are forced to work in a system where its all about consumption and profit if they want to survive, they are somewhat limited in how they operate. So they have to "encourage" people to buy their products and make them "feel" like they can't live without them. And unfortunately the methods of getting us to do this is very effective, but its not really good for the Earth as a whole.

So at least to me, you have several systems working against each other, one being we want and care about Earth and want to recycle etc, lets call that the golden rule. But on the other hand we have a system that is based on consumption, so it doesn't seem to work very well together. And to me since Earth is more important than a system we have invented, that primarily benefit the few rather than the masses, we ought to look at the system and change it rather than trying to fit them together. But how you would go about doing this is really not obvious. But to me at least, it seems like we are working towards a collapse both in nature, but also for societies as a whole. Because the system is not really evolving at the speed of which all these new technologies emerges. Which pushes humans further and further towards being obsolete for more and more jobs. And since robots etc. don't consume and buy stuff. It just doesn't seems to be a sustainable system in the long run.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I understand what you mean, even though I personally don't really like the "idea" behind the golden rule, since it doesn't really work. Think of a child molester or someone that likes pain, that wouldn't really work well with the golden rule :)
But anyway, I get your point. I think the issues with such approach is to assume that all people are in equal positions to live by the golden rule. A person suffering for hunger, will either have to die or steal if no one gives them food. My point being that you have way to many factors at play for the golden rule to really apply on the scale that is required.
Furthermore we could point fingers at certain companies, lets say Coca cola for instant, which uses around 3.5 - 4 liters of water to create a 1 liter of cola, including all the pollution that comes from making all the plastic and cans etc. But it doesn't really work, as people gladly buy their product, so pointing fingers at Cola is not really fair, I do think they try to reduce the amount of water they use and pollution etc. But at the same time they are trying to run a business. So its a shared problem and more or less an equal responsibility for every human. And to me if you want people to live by the "golden rule", which I agree with you is good, if we bend the meaning of it slightly. Then you have to change how we do business in the world, how the economy works. Because if companies are forced to work in a system where its all about consumption and profit if they want to survive, they are somewhat limited in how they operate. So they have to "encourage" people to buy their products and make them "feel" like they can't live without them. And unfortunately the methods of getting us to do this is very effective, but its not really good for the Earth as a whole.
So at least to me, you have several systems working against each other, one being we want and care about Earth and want to recycle etc, lets call that the golden rule. But on the other hand we have a system that is based on consumption, so it doesn't seem to work very well together. And to me since Earth is more important than a system we have invented, that primarily benefit the few rather than the masses, we ought to look at the system and change it rather than trying to fit them together. But how you would go about doing this is really not obvious. But to me at least, it seems like we are working towards a collapse both in nature, but also for societies as a whole. Because the system is not really evolving at the speed of which all these new technologies emerges. Which pushes humans further and further towards being obsolete for more and more jobs. And since robots etc. don't consume and buy stuff. It just doesn't seems to be a sustainable system in the long run.

I understand what you mean about molesters, etc. but they are really breaking the Golden Rule.
Yes, business ( commercial, political and religious ) would have to change. Several systems working against each other.....
In Scripture what is obvious, or should be, is why the international proclaiming about God's kingdom government is now being done today on such a vast global scale.- Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8; Daniel 2:44.
In short, people who will abide by Jesus' New commandment to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has would then abide by what is best for others and for planet Earth - John 13:34-35.
So, as each person who will be willing to abide by what they hear and learn will practice what is best for Earth.
Since most people reject when hearing Jesus' New commandment then there is only collapse in nature and societies....
This is why we are in 'critical times hard to deal with ' as mentioned at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 with bad men advancing from bad to worse.
Thus, we are facing and advancing to a coming ' time of separating ' to take place on Earth.
This ' separation ' time is connected to what is recorded at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Figurative humble people being separated from the haughty people.
The righteous or upright people will be ' saved/ delivered/ rescued ' through the coming great tribulation coming upon those who would bring ruin to Earth. To their ruin whether it be commercial, political or religious.
 
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