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[Virtue] Abstaining from taking existence living beings

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
Abstaing from taking life, taking the existance of other beings, deprive no being from his/her/it's lifefaculties. Where ever, small, large, blatant, subtle, what ever realm of existance.

The first faultless gift:

... a great gifts — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans.

"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, abandoning the taking of life, abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the first gift, the first great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans...

A gift that does not require material richness, but to use ones power gained by many, like a good God, sharing ones wealth toward every being.

May many be able to enjoy fearlessness and best well-being by having given the cause for it.

May it be space for those who can rejoice in giving, those who have become free from need to claim and blame others, fight and beg. May one feel inspired to share a little the joy of freedom from remorse.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If we don't take the life of other beings, wouldn't we starve, thus taking our own lives?
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Abstaining from taking life away from other beings leads you to the door of what love is.

For who has the right to take away life from another, none.

Starting from a place of pure innocence it is ideal to abstain.

Innocence is that which only seeks life and livelihood for others and self.

Guilt is the intention to take life from the innocent. And guilt uses false pride to accomplish this.

False pride is a sense of superiority with indignation towards people who are considered less or to be nothing at all.

Yet every innocent person great and small is absolutely worthy of life.

Do we judge others for skill, or lack thereof, or do we judge others on solely their intentions?

The intentions of innocence makes life to be treasured, valued, esteemed.

The intentions of guilt undermines trust, and every good quality of life.

So it is our choice as to what we desire to create, life or death. Trustworthiness or suspicion, peace or destruction.

So life true has one law:

love life and not death!
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
If we don't take the life of other beings, wouldn't we starve, thus taking our own lives?
But aside the idea of "we", Nyom Valjean. There are many who either live from taken what is given, left over or harmess trade, either kill by themselves, give signs so that other kill and do not aprove taking life mentally.

Abstaining from taking life, the gift a letting others live, is actually not only the reason to gain heavenly existences but if gaining a human life the cause of "naturally" long live.

So the idea that "i die when I don't kill" is actually a very animal like thinking, an existence where there is not much space to make any merits.

And one, especially in "developed" countries living, has no need at all to kill.

And one should not forget that most killing conducted by humans is not really to simply maintain the body but out of desire for sensual pleasure and desire for gains.

Out of knowing that no being has someone more dear as oneself, respecting that, one abstains from killing and in that way, by making a great voluntary gift on has gifted one self to long term happiness.

As beings are not used to virtue, don't know the fruits, it takes of course much confidence, faith, to act good in advanced, before one gets known it's truth by oneself.

It's a matter of gratitude, right view, of cause and if not seeing, starting from ones own mother, that there are many who could, but do not, take yours, than one is wrapped in wrong view, acts for his own and others pain:

"And how is one made impure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is covetous. He covets the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears ill will, corrupt in the resolves of his heart: 'May these beings be killed or cut apart or crushed or destroyed, or may they not exist at all!' He has wrong view, is warped in the way he sees things: 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made impure in three ways by mental action.

So one with right view, trains his thoughts like this:

"And how is one made pure in three ways by mental action? There is the case where a certain person is not covetous. He does not covet the belongings of others, thinking, 'O, that what belongs to others would be mine!' He bears no ill will and is not corrupt in the resolves of his heart. [He thinks,] 'May these beings be free from animosity, free from oppression, free from trouble, and may they look after themselves with ease!' He has right view and is not warped in the way he sees things: 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are brahmans & contemplatives who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is how one is made pure in three ways by mental action.

Godd ways start with right view, with gratitude. And if bringing the fact in front of who much has been given by others, only in this life, then there is much reason to syart to beginn to give something back, and one is not asked to sacrifices once own life at all.

Explore it, test it, try it, no need to blindky believe, Nyom Valjean, that freedom of any fear is possible by ones wise deeds. Happiness that causes others pain would not last long. You would be haunted all the time, and others would not like to see you being happy at all.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Do we judge others for skill, or lack thereof, or do we judge others on solely their intentions?
happens everyday in the toolroom where I work
constant finger pointing
reluctance to perform

'oh.....we are not here for our performance
we are here for our attendance'

I work with alleged skilled labor that cannot square a block of steel
or bore a hole

and they do judge me

likewise in return
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
happens everyday in the toolroom where I work
constant finger pointing
reluctance to perform

'oh.....we are not here for our performance
we are here for our attendance'

I work with alleged skilled labor that cannot square a block of steel
or bore a hole

and they do judge me

likewise in return

That is a totally separate issue from person judgments.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
Sadhu, Nyom Osgart, for some approaches. Some condratictions to most of it:

Yet every innocent person great and small is absolutely worthy of life.

There is no such as a guilty or innocent being. There are wise and foolish deeds. Out of not knowing people, beings, living, act foolish, harm themselves and others.

In regard of life and it's nourishment, there is NO being that is not worthy of the gift od life, not a single. Whether having done great harm to others or not. At least, if not remembering, there is no one who had not done wrong, here or in what ever existence, here or there.

Don't ever let justification and reasoning let sicker into strict No Goes, at least those simply no goes are a protection so that defiled opposition of the committee for decicions whould not win over. Result you have to bear.

Maybe a little inspiring the story of the mass-morder Angulimala, Angulimala: A Murderer's Road to Sainthood

Yet, eating so much, all sacrifices of others, would one seeing such, kills a hungry mosquito or ant? Possible not effen cast away, if knowing hunger, if knowing how hard to obtain such a powerful existence like that of a human being, open to great merits till liberation and as an highway to hell as well. Having gained great merits fruits, for the most a dangerous road downwardly, so good to act like a real good powerful person, yet where uch status has been gained, for keeping the stand and toward even more sublime.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
might need a thread for your explanation

Business is business. Personal judgments are aside.

Either you perform, learn to perform or you are out, nothing personal to that. Professional judgment.

I have seen well meaning people with very little skill, and expertise that i would call honest and sincere, and genuine.

There are mentally disabled people that are quite genuine.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Either you perform, learn to perform or you are out,
not if you are the boss man's son
or golfing buddy
or the company suck up
or someone that knew someone that knew someone

I would be more than happy to rid the shop of the slackers
but I'm not the boss pretending to be the boss
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There are mentally disabled people that are quite genuine.
we have one character of physical ailment
but that is superficial

he is a troll
not well skilled
and LOVES to point his finger at others

hehehehehe

but I don't think he's funny
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
not if you are the boss man's son
or golfing buddy
or the company suck up
or someone that knew someone that knew someone

I would be more than happy to rid the shop of the slackers
but I'm not the boss pretending to be the boss

I make no good case for that. That is clearly bad character.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
we have one character of physical ailment
but that is superficial

he is a troll
not well skilled
and LOVES to point his finger at others

hehehehehe

but I don't think he's funny

One is not representative of all.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
In regard of not harming, taking even life, one is always the boss of ones decisions. What kind of boss, power over well being and existence of others, even very weak, do you like to be?

One that kills to survive? One who makes just his "business"?
Fear and short life has it's cause.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
The is no such as killing, if the is no anger. Once anger arises it's just a matter of time till one kills, acts also physically. Be carefull.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The is no such as killing, if the is no anger. Once anger arises it's just a matter of time till one kills, acts also physically. Be carefull.
People kill in anger, but they also kill casually, with indifference. In many ways, this is worse than killing in anger and leads to industrial killing in abattoirs or extermination camps.

By "life," or other beings," are you referring to sentient beings, or to all life/beings?
When I hear "life" or "beings," I assume you're including carrots and rice. Are you advocating photosynthesizing, like trees, or living off air?

Myself, I'm vegan. I avoid causing pain or suffering to those capable of experiencing these, and I avoid stealing the life from those who value it. But to avoid killing "other beings," such as apples, entirely, would result in my taking my own life.
Please clarity your position.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
People kill in anger, but they also kill casually, with indifference. In many ways, this is worse than killing in anger and leads to industrial killing in abattoirs or extermination camps.
Nyom Valjean. Intended means at least to accept that beings are killed by ones action. If it is a matter of simply accident which has not caused by death accepting actions, one is not involved in killing. Of cause acting as if not knowing, say "when I think there are no beings in this water, then it's fine", *swap*, if one lies to oneself, it would not easy work. So truthfullness is needed to be not only outwardly virtuous appearing. Such has not much fruits to expect aside of possible gained honor for short time.

By "life," or other beings," are you referring to sentient beings, or to all life/beings?
When I hear "life" or "beings," I assume you're including carrots and rice. Are you advocating photosynthesizing, like trees, or living off air?
Living beings. Saying "sentient" is open to much terrible things. Think, some times ago people at large said animal have no feelings. Or because an animal does not scream... what ever one perceives, sees as living, to end up with that is taking existence.
"We" neither harm seeds nor uses knives or axe, living from what is given, what has no life and has not been killed for the sake of a monk (as far as seen, heard, expected)

Myself, I'm vegan. I avoid causing pain or suffering to those capable of experiencing these, and I avoid stealing the life from those who value it. But to avoid killing "other beings," such as apples, entirely, would result in my taking my own life.
Please clarity your position.

Nyom Valjean, it's praiseworthy to bear such intention, Sadhu. How ever, may Valjean be clear that eating what has no life is not unskillful, no bad. Taking life, order others to do, approve, even mentally happy about, such is unskillful. For the most it's difficult to distinguish between an act of eating and an act of organizing food. So it's important to understand that right. Desire after meat is something that kills, desire for pleasure that lies more fare than what is given or avaliable. There is no such food that wasn't life, didn't caused many to suffer and die. So it's good to be humble in regard of ones desires and take what is near, given or proper exchanged. Of cause it's not that easy if being a very careful person, but still lives a housholder life with a lot of desires. Sometimes, when really serious, one needs to look for other ways of modes.
Buying just vegeteribles, just Vegan, if it help for freedom from remorse, then such is fine. Often it does not, out of reason, but leads much to battles within, without, to provide one with good selfestimate.
If walking right into the next restaurant, putting some money on the table, tell "give me, what ever you would like to give a hungry person, to eat", might be often better as to seek after good looking lables telling one "harmless gained food".

Maybe some inspirations for more joy and good selfestimate without need to just but it on the relativity of "better then".

Mudita
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
In regard of not harming, taking even life, one is always the boss of ones decisions. What kind of boss, power over well being and existence of others, even very weak, do you like to be?

One that kills to survive? One who makes just his "business"?
Fear and short life has it's cause.
and if the opportunity is yours...…
and the harm can be stopped by your hand....

would you pull the trigger?
 
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