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Top 10 reasons Jesus is God!

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in Colossians although the law may be a shadow of what is to come it is Jesus who is casting the shadow.

9. King David sang of a divine Christ. The ultimate wedding bringing glory to God is God's own wedding. Psalm 45 is the wedding of a Jewish King to a bride who leaves her people and in the book of Hebrews taken of as a reason why Jesus is greater than the angels even saying "Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom"

8. The apostles reported that the world is made by through and for Jesus! Says both Romans and Colossians in the New Testament. If the world is made FOR Jesus, who else could Jesus be but God?

7. Zechariah proposed that God would someday somehow be valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price paid to Judas for betraying Jesus.

6. The apostle John reported that Jesus is the judge of the world in the gospel of John but God is the judge of the world. In fact, Jesus has many titles in the New Testament belonging to God such as 'the First and the Last; 'the beginning and the end' and Jesus himself used many times the title I AM from when God appeared to Moses as the burning bush

5. God said through Isaiah that he will not give His glory to others but Jesus has the title 'the Lord of glory' God said through Isaiah 'to Me every knee will bow" and Philippians says "to Jesus every knee will bow and every young will confess Jesus as Lord"

4. God is the only Savior in the Old Testament, yet Jesus name means savior. It is no surprise that some prayers to God from the Old Testament such as Psalm 102 are taken as prayers addressing Jesus in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament

3. Prophets said so. God promises to be the only shepherd for Israel but makes a 'David' like figure the shepherd forever of Israel which points to Jesus as the good shepherd and God.

2. Jesus said so. In his humanity Jesus laid down his life and in his deity Jesus took it up as claimed by Jesus in John 2.

1. Apostles said so. The church is said to be 'bought with the blood of God' in the book of Romans
Jesus is the ultimate 'God with us. Emanuel." By faith in Him we have ;the righteousness of God which is only possible if Jesus is God."

It is all no wonder since the prophets of the old testament sang that "the Lord is our righteousness" which is true in Jesus
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in Colossians although the law may be a shadow of what is to come it is Jesus who is casting the shadow.

9. King David sang of a divine Christ. The ultimate wedding bringing glory to God is God's own wedding. Psalm 45 is the wedding of a Jewish King to a bride who leaves her people and in the book of Hebrews taken of as a reason why Jesus is greater than the angels even saying "Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom"

8. The apostles reported that the world is made by through and for Jesus! Says both Romans and Colossians in the New Testament. If the world is made FOR Jesus, who else could Jesus be but God?

7. Zechariah proposed that God would someday somehow be valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price paid to Judas for betraying Jesus.

6. The apostle John reported that Jesus is the judge of the world in the gospel of John but God is the judge of the world. In fact, Jesus has many titles in the New Testament belonging to God such as 'the First and the Last; 'the beginning and the end' and Jesus himself used many times the title I AM from when God appeared to Moses as the burning bush

5. God said through Isaiah that he will not give His glory to others but Jesus has the title 'the Lord of glory' God said through Isaiah 'to Me every knee will bow" and Philippians says "to Jesus every knee will bow and every young will confess Jesus as Lord"

4. God is the only Savior in the Old Testament, yet Jesus name means savior. It is no surprise that some prayers to God from the Old Testament such as Psalm 102 are taken as prayers addressing Jesus in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament

3. Prophets said so. God promises to be the only shepherd for Israel but makes a 'David' like figure the shepherd forever of Israel which points to Jesus as the good shepherd and God.

2. Jesus said so. In his humanity Jesus laid down his life and in his deity Jesus took it up as claimed by Jesus in John 2.

1. Apostles said so. The church is said to be 'bought with the blood of God' in the book of Romans
Jesus is the ultimate 'God with us. Emanuel." By faith in Him we have ;the righteousness of God which is only possible if Jesus is God."

It is all no wonder since the prophets of the old testament sang that "the Lord is our righteousness" which is true in Jesus

Is Jesus God physically incarnate?

1 John 4:12
"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

1 KIng 8:27
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Scripture seems to imply that Jesus can not possibly be God incarnate.

Perhaps it would be better to think of Jesus as being a perfect image or reflection of Gods' divine attributes?

Colossians 1:15 in regards to Jesus
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Best Wishes
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Is Jesus God physically incarnate?

1 John 4:12
"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

1 KIng 8:27
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Scripture seems to imply that Jesus can not possibly be God incarnate.

Perhaps it would be better to think of Jesus as being a perfect image or reflection of Gods' divine attributes?

Colossians 1:15 in regards to Jesus
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"

John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Best Wishes

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Colossians 1:15

Taken together, I think you are just proving The Son is not the Father. Yes, Jesus prayed to the Father and is not the same person. This is in part why the Trinity is true.

We do not see God directly but indirectly see God in Christ. God showed 'his back' to Moses' and Jesus though 'viewed in flesh the Godhead He' makes God known. Jesus Himself said 'He who has seen Me has (in a sense) seen the Father"
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I think you are just proving The Son is not the Father. Yes, Jesus prayed to the Father and is not the same person. This is in part why the Trinity is true.

We do not see God directly but indirectly see God in Christ. God showed 'his back' to Moses' and Jesus though 'viewed in flesh the Godhead He' makes God known. Jesus Himself said 'He who has seen Me has (in a sense) seen the Father"

Then we may be saying the same thing in different ways. Baha'is believe in the Divinity of Christ and the Sonship of Christ. Clearly the Son and the Father are not exactly the same, though in a sense are One.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Then we may be saying the same thing in different ways. Baha'is believe in the Divinity of Christ and the Sonship of Christ. Clearly the Son and the Father are not exactly the same, though in a sense are One.

Yes, one would have to come to grips with in some sense one and in some sense not.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in
..

Jesus also said that God is greater than him and there is only one true God.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Jesus also said that God is greater than him and there is only one true God.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

…the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

The president of the United States may be greater in office than I but in the sense of personhood is the same in essence as I. Equally human and American

This is just another way that Jesus is the same in essence but different in persons than the Father and yet another reason the Trinity is true. The Trinity best brings together the common things and differences with Father Son and Spirit.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in Colossians although the law may be a shadow of what is to come it is Jesus who is casting the shadow.

9. King David sang of a divine Christ. The ultimate wedding bringing glory to God is God's own wedding. Psalm 45 is the wedding of a Jewish King to a bride who leaves her people and in the book of Hebrews taken of as a reason why Jesus is greater than the angels even saying "Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom"

8. The apostles reported that the world is made by through and for Jesus! Says both Romans and Colossians in the New Testament. If the world is made FOR Jesus, who else could Jesus be but God?

7. Zechariah proposed that God would someday somehow be valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price paid to Judas for betraying Jesus.

6. The apostle John reported that Jesus is the judge of the world in the gospel of John but God is the judge of the world. In fact, Jesus has many titles in the New Testament belonging to God such as 'the First and the Last; 'the beginning and the end' and Jesus himself used many times the title I AM from when God appeared to Moses as the burning bush

5. God said through Isaiah that he will not give His glory to others but Jesus has the title 'the Lord of glory' God said through Isaiah 'to Me every knee will bow" and Philippians says "to Jesus every knee will bow and every young will confess Jesus as Lord"

4. God is the only Savior in the Old Testament, yet Jesus name means savior. It is no surprise that some prayers to God from the Old Testament such as Psalm 102 are taken as prayers addressing Jesus in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament

3. Prophets said so. God promises to be the only shepherd for Israel but makes a 'David' like figure the shepherd forever of Israel which points to Jesus as the good shepherd and God.

2. Jesus said so. In his humanity Jesus laid down his life and in his deity Jesus took it up as claimed by Jesus in John 2.

1. Apostles said so. The church is said to be 'bought with the blood of God' in the book of Romans
Jesus is the ultimate 'God with us. Emanuel." By faith in Him we have ;the righteousness of God which is only possible if Jesus is God."

It is all no wonder since the prophets of the old testament sang that "the Lord is our righteousness" which is true in Jesus
The Old Testament never ever refers to Jesus.

It's just an interpretation that it does.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
The Old Testament never ever refers to Jesus.

It's just an interpretation that it does.

Everything is interpreted The issue is whether the interpretation is valid or not

For example in Luke, John the Baptist is a baby who from the womb would be 'filled with the Holy Spirit" while Jesus was intrinsically 'Holy" Only God is intrinsically Holy by nature. The clear interpretation is Jesus is describes as having an attribute of God only God has. Other similar things unique to God attributed to Jesus would be Jesus is seeing into men's hearts.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in Colossians although the law may be a shadow of what is to come it is Jesus who is casting the shadow.

9. King David sang of a divine Christ. The ultimate wedding bringing glory to God is God's own wedding. Psalm 45 is the wedding of a Jewish King to a bride who leaves her people and in the book of Hebrews taken of as a reason why Jesus is greater than the angels even saying "Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom"

8. The apostles reported that the world is made by through and for Jesus! Says both Romans and Colossians in the New Testament. If the world is made FOR Jesus, who else could Jesus be but God?

7. Zechariah proposed that God would someday somehow be valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price paid to Judas for betraying Jesus.

6. The apostle John reported that Jesus is the judge of the world in the gospel of John but God is the judge of the world. In fact, Jesus has many titles in the New Testament belonging to God such as 'the First and the Last; 'the beginning and the end' and Jesus himself used many times the title I AM from when God appeared to Moses as the burning bush

5. God said through Isaiah that he will not give His glory to others but Jesus has the title 'the Lord of glory' God said through Isaiah 'to Me every knee will bow" and Philippians says "to Jesus every knee will bow and every young will confess Jesus as Lord"

4. God is the only Savior in the Old Testament, yet Jesus name means savior. It is no surprise that some prayers to God from the Old Testament such as Psalm 102 are taken as prayers addressing Jesus in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament

3. Prophets said so. God promises to be the only shepherd for Israel but makes a 'David' like figure the shepherd forever of Israel which points to Jesus as the good shepherd and God.

2. Jesus said so. In his humanity Jesus laid down his life and in his deity Jesus took it up as claimed by Jesus in John 2.

1. Apostles said so. The church is said to be 'bought with the blood of God' in the book of Romans
Jesus is the ultimate 'God with us. Emanuel." By faith in Him we have ;the righteousness of God which is only possible if Jesus is God."

It is all no wonder since the prophets of the old testament sang that "the Lord is our righteousness" which is true in Jesus

None of those ten reasons stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Jesus was a human just like the rest of us.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
None of those ten reasons stand up to any kind of scrutiny. Jesus was a human just like the rest of us.
Jesus was not just a human like the rest of us, He was a Manifestation of God. Jesus had a divine mind and a pr-existent soul which was sent to earth from the heaven of the Will of God.

No, Jesus was not God, because there is only one God, but Jesus was more than human.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus was not just a human like the rest of us, He was a Manifestation of God. Jesus had a divine mind and a pr-existent soul which was sent to earth from the heaven of the Will of God.

No, Jesus was not God, because there is only one God, but Jesus was more than human.
Quite the story.
What evidence do you have for these claims?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
The evidence I have is what Baha'u'llah wrote about Manifestations of God, which Jesus was.
It is not proof, but it is evidence.
Nobody can prove these things.

Although Jesus did claim some exclusivity

- only begotten son of God
- the way the truth and the life - no one can come to the Father except by me

similarly the apostles various ways maintained this

- I have written to you that you may know you have eternal life and this life is in his son, he who has the son has the life, he who does not have the son does not have the life.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
10. The ark of the covenant which represented God's presence is taken as pointing to Jesus.
Psalm 68 which concerns the Ark and in part the Ark being moved up to Mt Zion is interpreted as pointing to the ascension of Jesus in Ephesians. It doesn't stop at the ark as Jesus refers to himself as 'greater than Jonah' , 'greater than Solomon' and 'greater than the temple' and in Colossians although the law may be a shadow of what is to come it is Jesus who is casting the shadow.

9. King David sang of a divine Christ. The ultimate wedding bringing glory to God is God's own wedding. Psalm 45 is the wedding of a Jewish King to a bride who leaves her people and in the book of Hebrews taken of as a reason why Jesus is greater than the angels even saying "Thy throne Oh God is forever and ever and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His Kingdom"

8. The apostles reported that the world is made by through and for Jesus! Says both Romans and Colossians in the New Testament. If the world is made FOR Jesus, who else could Jesus be but God?

7. Zechariah proposed that God would someday somehow be valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price paid to Judas for betraying Jesus.

6. The apostle John reported that Jesus is the judge of the world in the gospel of John but God is the judge of the world. In fact, Jesus has many titles in the New Testament belonging to God such as 'the First and the Last; 'the beginning and the end' and Jesus himself used many times the title I AM from when God appeared to Moses as the burning bush

5. God said through Isaiah that he will not give His glory to others but Jesus has the title 'the Lord of glory' God said through Isaiah 'to Me every knee will bow" and Philippians says "to Jesus every knee will bow and every young will confess Jesus as Lord"

4. God is the only Savior in the Old Testament, yet Jesus name means savior. It is no surprise that some prayers to God from the Old Testament such as Psalm 102 are taken as prayers addressing Jesus in the book of Hebrews in the New Testament

3. Prophets said so. God promises to be the only shepherd for Israel but makes a 'David' like figure the shepherd forever of Israel which points to Jesus as the good shepherd and God.

2. Jesus said so. In his humanity Jesus laid down his life and in his deity Jesus took it up as claimed by Jesus in John 2.

1. Apostles said so. The church is said to be 'bought with the blood of God' in the book of Romans
Jesus is the ultimate 'God with us. Emanuel." By faith in Him we have ;the righteousness of God which is only possible if Jesus is God."

It is all no wonder since the prophets of the old testament sang that "the Lord is our righteousness" which is true in Jesus

Nice twisting around of "taken completely out of context" tid-bits from the book of lies to make them appear to "fit" your faulty premise.

Did you invent them yourself or is this something you were brainwashed to believe?

You have completely ignored all the GOD THE FATHER, and Jesus the SON verses, as well as all the other verses Jesus openly states that he can do NOTHING without GOD HIS FATHER, GOD is greater than "I", and the like. And let's not forget the Jesus whining on the cross "But, but, daddy, WHY have you forsaken me???!!!" That's NOT how any "god" would act.
 

Ancient Soul

The Spiritual Universe
Although Jesus did claim some exclusivity

- only begotten son of God
- the way the truth and the life - no one can come to the Father except by me

similarly the apostles various ways maintained this

- I have written to you that you may know you have eternal life and this life is in his son, he who has the son has the life, he who does not have the son does not have the life.

Only begotten "son of "god" NOT, the fake Christian "god" has many "sons":

Romans 8:19 - For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Philippians 2:15 - That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

And as to the other referenced "exclusivity", ALL fake guru's make the same baseless claim, that ONLY THEY have ALL the answers, but as we all know, they never do. I mean, if Jesus was a "son" of the Christian "god", then WHY did he have to study and read from man made SCRIPTURES??? Cannot you see the major fault here with the silly claim that Jesus is the "son" of "god, or as some are brainwashed to believe is the Christian "god" himself, then if that were the case, he would not be studying or even reading from man made scriptures. As the claim is that he is "all knowing", ha, ha, ha... yet Jesus had to learn about man's primitive ideas about himself from their mythological scriptures.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The evidence I have is what Baha'u'llah wrote about Manifestations of God, which Jesus was.
It is not proof, but it is evidence.
Nobody can prove these things.
Many men write historical, or religious works. Many claim authority or divine inspiration.
How are Baha'u'llah's works any more believable than Tolkien's or LaVeys?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Although Jesus did claim some exclusivity

- only begotten son of God
- the way the truth and the life - no one can come to the Father except by me

similarly the apostles various ways maintained this

- I have written to you that you may know you have eternal life and this life is in his son, he who has the son has the life, he who does not have the son does not have the life.
All that was true during the Dispensation of Jesus; Jesus was the ONLY WAY back then and nobody could come to the Father BUT by Jesus and nobody could have eternal life BUT through Jesus....

However, there have been three NEW Manifestations of God since Jesus: Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
We are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, so now He is the way the truth and the life.

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Many men write historical, or religious works. Many claim authority or divine inspiration.
How are Baha'u'llah's works any more believable than Tolkien's or LaVeys?
For starters, Tolkien and LaVey did not claim to be Manifestations of God.

Baha'u'llah's writings are more believable to me because of the content and the presentation... Nobody can write like Baha'u'llah, except the Bab.... He did a pretty good job too. :D

Here is what chronicled by Nabil, regarding the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah:

“So prolific was this period, that during the first two years after His return from His retirement, according to the testimony of Nabíl, who was at that time living in Baghdád, the unrecorded verses that streamed from His lips averaged, in a single day and night, the equivalent of the Qur’án! As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or the diversity of subjects to which they referred.........A certain Muḥammad Karím, a native of Shíráz, who had been a witness to the rapidity and the manner in which the Báb had penned the verses with which He was inspired, has left the following testimony to posterity, after attaining, during those days, the presence of Bahá’u’lláh, and beholding with his own eyes what he himself had considered to be the only proof of the mission of the Promised One: “I bear witness that the verses revealed by Bahá’u’lláh were superior, in the rapidity with which they were penned, in the ease with which they flowed, in their lucidity, their profundity and sweetness to those which I, myself saw pour from the pen of the Báb when in His presence. Had Bahá’u’lláh no other claim to greatness, this were sufficient, in the eyes of the world and its people, that He produced such verses as have streamed this day from His pen.” God Passes By. pp. 137-138
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
All that was true during the Dispensation of Jesus; Jesus was the ONLY WAY back then and nobody could come to the Father BUT by Jesus and nobody could have eternal life BUT through Jesus....

However, there have been three NEW Manifestations of God since Jesus: Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
We are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, so now He is the way the truth and the life.

“Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213

Not sure how that squares with Jesus telling the apostes personally that 'the Holy Spirit will lead them into all truth'

Sounds like 'new truth'
 
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