Punctuation example and the problem of writing.

A professor wrote on the chalkboard
"A woman without her man is nothing"
And he asked the class to properly puncuate it.

All the males wrote:
"A woman, without her man, is nothing."

All the females wrote:
"A woman: without her, a man is nothing"

And people actually "believe" they understand the Bible. The above example throws that into deep question.

David T said:

A professor wrote on the chalkboard
"A woman without her man is nothing"
And he asked the class to properly puncuate it.

All the males wrote:
"A woman, without her man, is nothing."

All the females wrote:
"A woman: without her, a man is nothing"

And people actually "believe" they understand the Bible. The above example throws that into deep question.

Click to expand...

I think you're forgetting that everything written in the Bible was guided by god's hand and is therefore properly punctuated.

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Skwim said:

I think you're forgetting that everything written in the Bible was guided by god's hand and is therefore properly punctuated.

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Lol even more proof just by that kind of thinking. Skwim I have to always tell atheists to be careful on the topic god their experts they rely on are a clueless bunch.... That be religion...

Skwim said:

I think you're forgetting that everything written in the Bible was guided by god's hand and is therefore properly punctuated.

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Thus illustrating that you are the polar opposite of an inerrant literalist believer.

David T said:

A professor wrote on the chalkboard
"A woman without her man is nothing"
And he asked the class to properly puncuate it.

All the males wrote:
"A woman, without her man, is nothing."

All the females wrote:
"A woman: without her, a man is nothing"

And people actually "believe" they understand the Bible. The above example throws that into deep question.

Click to expand...

As far as marriage is concerned. Both statements are true. if you see it any other way, congratulations, you are a bigot.

This is the best book on punctuation...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Lynne-Truss/dp/0007329067

David T said:

A professor wrote on the chalkboard
"A woman without her man is nothing"
And he asked the class to properly puncuate it.

All the males wrote:
"A woman, without her man, is nothing."

All the females wrote:
"A woman: without her, a man is nothing"

And people actually "believe" they understand the Bible. The above example throws that into deep question.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but this is not a punctuation issue. The second quote has added an indefinite article..."a" that wasn't in the original quote. I cry foul!

In talking about the Bible, the Greek portions are open for interpretation because there was no punctuation in the Greek and no capital letters either....so what is an example of punctuation altering a scripture based on a specific belief?

How about Luke 23:43?

This verse is about the evildoer hung alongside Jesus at Calvary. Jesus makes him a promise.

The NASB translates this verse with punctuation like this....

"43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

ESV....43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

NIV...."43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Most modern translations place the comma after the word "you".

But what if you place the comma after the word "today"?

The NWT reads...."And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Placing the comma there, alters the whole verse. Why the difference? Which one is correct?

First of all we have to ascertain whether Jesus was in 'Paradise' that day. And whether Jesus meant 'heaven' when he said that. What does the Bible tell us? It says that Jesus stayed on earth to encourage and strengthen his disciples before returning to heaven. When he was resurrected, he told Mary Magdalene...."Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17) This was three days after he died.

So how long did it take for Jesus to return to his Father in heaven?
Acts 1:3...
"He was seen by them throughout 40 days, and he was speaking about the Kingdom of God.".....
verses 8-11..."But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight. 10 And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, suddenly two men in white garments stood beside them 11 and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

So if it took 40 days for Jesus to return to heaven, why would he tell the robber next to him that he would be with him in paradise that day? Jesus was in his tomb for three days.

It is clear that Jesus was not saying he would be with the man in Paradise that day, so the comma placed after the word "today" makes more sense.....it was a promise....made that very day. And since the robber was not a disciple who had 'stuck with Jesus in his trials', (Luke 22:28-30) there is no way that Jesus was promising this man a heavenly reward. He was an unrighteous man, guilty of many crimes for which he was suffering the death penalty, justly. (Luke 23:39-41)

There is no such thing as a death bed conversion leading to heaven. By the time of one's death, one has already made a record with God. They are either written in his book of life or they are not.

So, what 'paradise' was Jesus speaking of then? Where was the first paradise mentioned in Genesis? Wasn't it right here on earth? And didn't Jesus promise to resurrect 'both the righteous and the unrighteous' when he brought his kingdom rulership to this earth? (John 5:28-29; Revelation 21:2-4) The change of heart made by this man, put him in line for a resurrection into the "new earth" that Jesus will rule. (2 Peter 3:13) Until Jesus rules in his kingdom over the earth, all the dead sleep, waiting for his call to come out of their graves. The evildoer will be among them.

So the placement of a comma can have far reaching implications, and steer people in a completely wrong direction IMO. Scripture explains scripture......as it always does.

Altfish said:

This is the best book on punctuation...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Lynne-Truss/dp/0007329067

Click to expand...

Nice score thanks

Deeje said:

I'm sorry but this is not a punctuation issue. The second quote has added an indefinite article..."a" that wasn't in the original quote. I cry foul!

In talking about the Bible, the Greek portions are open for interpretation because there was no punctuation in the Greek and no capital letters either....so what is an example of punctuation altering a scripture based on a specific belief?

How about Luke 23:43?

This verse is about the evildoer hung alongside Jesus at Calvary. Jesus makes him a promise.

The NASB translates this verse with punctuation like this....

"43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

ESV....43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

NIV...."43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Most modern translations place the comma after the word "you".

But what if you place the comma after the word "today"?

The NWT reads...."And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”

Placing the comma there, alters the whole verse. Why the difference? Which one is correct?

First of all we have to ascertain whether Jesus was in 'Paradise' that day. And whether Jesus meant 'heaven' when he said that. What does the Bible tell us? It says that Jesus stayed on earth to encourage and strengthen his disciples before returning to heaven. When he was resurrected, he told Mary Magdalene...."Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” (John 20:17) This was three days after he died.

So how long did it take for Jesus to return to his Father in heaven?
Acts 1:3...
"He was seen by them throughout 40 days, and he was speaking about the Kingdom of God.".....
verses 8-11..."But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.” 9 After he had said these things, while they were looking on, he was lifted up and a cloud caught him up from their sight. 10 And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, suddenly two men in white garments stood beside them 11 and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

So if it took 40 days for Jesus to return to heaven, why would he tell the robber next to him that he would be with him in paradise that day? Jesus was in his tomb for three days.

It is clear that Jesus was not saying he would be with the man in Paradise that day, so the comma placed after the word "today" makes more sense.....it was a promise....made that very day. And since the robber was not a disciple who had 'stuck with Jesus in his trials', (Luke 22:28-30) there is no way that Jesus was promising this man a heavenly reward. He was an unrighteous man, guilty of many crimes for which he was suffering the death penalty, justly. (Luke 23:39-41)

There is no such thing as a death bed conversion leading to heaven. By the time of one's death, one has already made a record with God. They are either written in his book of life or they are not.

So, what 'paradise' was Jesus speaking of then? Where was the first paradise mentioned in Genesis? Wasn't it right here on earth? And didn't Jesus promise to resurrect 'both the righteous and the unrighteous' when he brought his kingdom rulership to this earth? (John 5:28-29; Revelation 21:2-4) The change of heart made by this man, put him in line for a resurrection into the "new earth" that Jesus will rule. (2 Peter 3:13) Until Jesus rules in his kingdom over the earth, all the dead sleep, waiting for his call to come out of their graves. The evildoer will be among them.

So the placement of a comma can have far reaching implications, and steer people in a completely wrong direction IMO. Scripture explains scripture......as it always does.

Click to expand...

"First of all we have to ascertain whether Jesus was in 'Paradise' that day. "

Since my degree is actually theology, how we determine is rooted in the sub concious. Interestingly if one asks 10 scientists to interpret quantum mechanics we will get 8 answers. By some form of voodoo magic the identical phenomena happens in reading the Bible. Odd I wonder why that happens!!!!

Enoch07 said:

As far as marriage is concerned. Both statements are true. if you see it any other way, congratulations, you are a bigot.

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Thus we have a conflict between the sub-concious male and sub-concious female. Since the founder of Christianity is female and explained by men For the last 2000 years what could go wrong!!!! And yet some things have gone right at the same time... Inspite of ourselves I might add. Which the prophet john prine speaks of!!!

Altfish said:

This is the best book on punctuation...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Lynne-Truss/dp/0007329067

Click to expand...

From your link

However, it is available from HERE, for those looking to do it right.





As an addendum, although I know the following punctuation is acceptable in some quarters, it even has a name (it might be a British thing) leaving out the comma after the next to last item and before an "and" in a string of items irks me.

Example: In my opinion . . . .



Of course, if the last two items represent a single item, "coal chute" for example, there would be no comma after "coal."


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David T said:

Interestingly if one asks 10 scientists to interpret quantum mechanics we will get 8 answers.

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Ask 10 Hindus the same question and you'll get 22 answers.

Enoch07 said:

As far as marriage is concerned. Both statements are true. if you see it any other way, congratulations, you are a bigot.

Click to expand...

Behind every woman stands a man...

... who has absolutely no idea what he did and why she's yelling at him.

Jainarayan said:

Behind every woman stands a man...

... who has absolutely no idea what he did and why she's yelling at him.

Click to expand...

Guilty

David T said:

"First of all we have to ascertain whether Jesus was in 'Paradise' that day. "

Since my degree is actually theology, how we determine is rooted in the sub concious. Interestingly if one asks 10 scientists to interpret quantum mechanics we will get 8 answers. By some form of voodoo magic the identical phenomena happens in reading the Bible. Odd I wonder why that happens!!!!

Click to expand...

Do you think a degree in theology makes a difference to your understanding of scripture? Who gave you your degree? Who taught you all you know about the Bible? Who translated the Bible you used to reach your conclusions? If they were biased in their translations and taught you that bias, what value does that give your degree. The Pharisees felt the same way when Jesus was exposing their erroneous application of scripture. They were the educated ones, but Jesus and his apostles were not. What value did that give the Pharisees' teachings? Jesus called them out on their corrupt interpretation of God's word.

Who was attracted to Jesus' teachings? Only a very small percentage of his own people. Why? Who was responsible for their absolute condemnation when Jesus was brought before Pilate? (Matthew 27:25) They were so confident, that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. Who gave them that confidence?

Jesus taught the value of scripture to explain scripture by offering correct interpretation. So who has the correct interpretation today among the thousands of sects in Christendom?

In Luke 23:43 what does the Bible itself indicate? Was Jesus promising the robber a place in heaven that very day? Or was Jesus promising him a place as a subject of his kingdom, by resurrection?

Only those interested in what the whole Bible has to say, rather than isolated verses that may be taken out of context to promote a certain view, will bother to do their homework.

Jesus promised that God would "grant" understanding to those in whom he found the right qualities. (John 6:44; John 6:65) These would follow Christ just like his first century disciples did....sometimes under extreme opposition. (John 15:18-21) Where God is concerned, the majority have never been in the right. Why do you think that is?

Omg now that is

Jainarayan said:

Ask 10 Hindus the same question and you'll get 22 answers.

Click to expand...

That is Both incredibly funny and accurate!

David T said:

Omg now that is

That is Both incredibly funny and accurate!

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Those wild and krrraaaazy Hindus!

Deeje said:

Do you think a degree in theology makes a difference to your understanding of scripture? Who gave you your degree? Who taught you all you know about the Bible? Who translated the Bible you used to reach your conclusions? If they were biased in their translations and taught you that bias, what value does that give your degree. The Pharisees felt the same way when Jesus was exposing their erroneous application of scripture. They were the educated ones, but Jesus and his apostles were not. What value did that give the Pharisees' teachings? Jesus called them out on their corrupt interpretation of God's word.

Who was attracted to Jesus' teachings? Only a very small percentage of his own people. Why? Who was responsible for their absolute condemnation when Jesus was brought before Pilate? (Matthew 27:25) They were so confident, that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. Who gave them that confidence?

Jesus taught the value of scripture to explain scripture by offering correct interpretation. So who has the correct interpretation today among the thousands of sects in Christendom?

In Luke 23:43 what does the Bible itself indicate? Was Jesus promising the robber a place in heaven that very day? Or was Jesus promising him a place as a subject of his kingdom, by resurrection?

Only those interested in what the whole Bible has to say, rather than isolated verses that may be taken out of context to promote a certain view, will bother to do their homework.

Jesus promised that God would "grant" understanding to those in whom he found the right qualities. (John 6:44; John 6:65) These would follow Christ just like his first century disciples did....sometimes under extreme opposition. (John 15:18-21) Where God is concerned, the majority have never been in the right. Why do you think that is?

Click to expand...

"Do you think a degree in theology makes a difference to your understanding of scripture?"

It's absolutely worthless in application to the Bible but it's a great psych tool in the development of the intellect over the last 2,000 years. Since you want the Bible to be about bigfoot , and a science fiction cartoon world, well there ya go that's very "normal" and so is atheism l.

David T said:

"Do you think a degree in theology makes a difference to your understanding of scripture?"

It's absolutely worthless in application to the Bible but it's a great psych tool in the development of the intellect over the last 2,000 years. Since you want the Bible to be about bigfoot , and a science fiction cartoon world, well there ya go that's very "normal" and so is atheism l.

Click to expand...

So nothing to say about the punctuation in Luke 23:43? It's your thread....and it was about punctuation. How does your degree in theology provide you with answers to questions like that?

What did Jesus tell the thief hung next to him?

Deeje said:

So nothing to say about the punctuation in Luke 23:43? It's your thread....and it was about punctuation. How does your degree in theology provide you with answers to questions like that?

What did Jesus tell the thief hung next to him?

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Sorry deeje that horse has left town. Nobody cares and it's an irrelevant approach to the text. No one cares nor should they .