Obeying Your Husband.

I do not think this means a husband should be a dictator and his wife must obet everything he says.They need to work together and decide things together. However, there may be times when they just cannot agree on some issue. At thes times someone must make the final decision. The husband is meant to be the head of the family and should decide these issues and the wife should follow his decision.

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

In Islam, the admonishment is certain.

I do not know what the Jews think about it at all.

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

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Yes women should respect and obey their husbands within reason. It couldn't be clearer that it's the right thing. It will make happier families. Problem is that almost no one is listening to God anymore. Men or women. So no wonder marriages don't work. Men and women are both at fault.

KenS said:

this is a common error that most people make... they start in verse 22, forget vs 21, and omit the verses following 24. Men who are dictators, or those like @Skwim, misuse it often.

Spirit-Guided Relationships: Wives and Husbands
:21 And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Here each are obeying each other.

:25 For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her

Here man is laying down his life for his wife and "Not spanking her".

So a deeper understanding is important.

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Don't see any reciprocity here at all. There's no:

Nope. It's a one-way street.

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What happens when there are 2 husbands?
I'm thinking Robert & William....2 guys I know who married a few years ago.

What if there are 2 wives....does no one obey anyone?

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

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Marital obedience is taken quite seriously in the Christadelphians, Southern Baptists, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, COG, Assemblies of God, LDS (from what I hear), Calvinist, probably Lutheran, Jehova's Witnesses (from what I hear), Amish, Brethren, Mennonites and some others. These and most are all Biblical re-constructionist, which means they reconstruct Christianity as if from its ashes using a particular canon of their choice. This is a very American kind of Christianity but one which has been spreading around the world for many decades, now. It was European but passed through the colonies and was somewhat changed. Its got a lot of American backwoods-hick-bible-reader influences in it, doesn't have robes usually or traditional Catholic items such as holy water. Its seminaries are their own creatures, often very separate from one another in style. Its so old that it has naturalized in the various countries where it has gone. There is a Chinese protestant church, an African one, an Australian one and so forth. We are talking about most Christians who are not Catholics. This American passage of Christianity has major implications for churches around the world.

Generally all believe that a happy marriage involves the woman obeying the husband, but not all recognize that marital harmony is the responsibility of the man due backwoods hick interpretations of "the man is the priest of his household" which in 19th century America is not very understandable. It doesn't ring any bells. It literally means its the man's job to maintain peace in the home, but due to the country nature of Christians in America this was not understood and did not get passed on to most Christian churches and is niche knowledge today.

Ellen Brown said:

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

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I'm trying out Scribd, so I have here books here in front of me. Is this the A Year of Biblical Womanhood... book? It says she tries for a year to live exactly as she would expect a biblical woman to and as literally as possible.

Here are reviews on books.google A Year of Biblical Womanhood

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

In Islam, the admonishment is certain.

I do not know what the Jews think about it at all.

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

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My wife is the head of our household. I obey her.

It Aint Necessarily So said:

This issue is just one of many where moral progress has created a bit of a problem for the church, which ostensibly goes to its Bible for advice on how to live life, but is now dealing with an ever more secular population that rejects those values and advice. So what do you do? Simply tell them that the Bible has always taught that men and women were equals in a marriage.

But that is a verse that is usually ignored. I know from my own Christian experience, which included about a half dozen congregations over about ten years. The message was that the woman was to submit to the husband, not that they should submit to one another, which makes no sense. There can be only one master and one slave in such a relationship, one boss and one underling, one dominant and one submissive.

It's pretty clear that if most Christian couples visited their clergy for marriage counseling, and the husband complained that the wife was disobedient - the woman would be advised to submit to the man and not vice versa.

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True... true...

I think the word "submit" is even twisted. It gives the connotation of a forced decision vs a loving yielding. Truth be told, I yield to my wife much more than she yields to me but in either case it is always supporting one another as if the decision was one's own.

ChristineM said:

It appears that in general divorce rates in the US are highest in areas where Christianity is highest

View attachment 28804

Something of a conundrum dont you think?

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Not really. In New York more people could be living together so no divorce is registered.

Skwim said:

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 Give way to each other because you respect Christ.
22 Wives, obey your husbands as you obey the Lord.
23 The husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head of the church people. The church is his body and he saved it.
24 Wives should obey their husbands in everything, just as the church people obey Christ.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church people. He gave his life for the church.​

Don't see any reciprocity here at all. No:

"Husbands, obey your wives as you obey the Lord." OR
"The wife is the head of the husband." OR
"Husbands should obey their wives in everything, just as the church people obey Christ.
​

Nope. It's a one-way street.

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Nope

Only in Skwims version.

How can you "give way to each other" if you have to obey? You might look at another application

KenS said:

Only in Skwims version.

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Yeah, when picking your Bible ya gotta be careful it comports with your theology, and be ready to jump ship when it doesn't.

How can you "give way to each other" if you have to obey? You might look at another application

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Hey, don't look to me to explain away Bible contradictions. I didn't write the book.

.

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KenS said:

Not really. In New York more people could be living together so no divorce is registered.

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The court statistics dont need your approval. I provided a state by state map of divorce percentage, its accurate and closely mirrors the most religious states

Skwim said:

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 Give way to each other because you respect Christ.
22 Wives, obey your husbands as you obey the Lord.
23 The husband is the head of the wife, just as Christ is the head of the church people. The church is his body and he saved it.
24 Wives should obey their husbands in everything, just as the church people obey Christ.
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church people. He gave his life for the church.​

Don't see any reciprocity here at all. There's no:

"Husbands, obey your wives as you obey the Lord." OR
"The wife is the head of the husband." OR
"Husbands should obey their wives in everything, just as the church people obey Christ.
​

Nope. It's a one-way street.

.

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Actually there IS receprocity there.

Look > verse 21 "give way to EACHOTHER."

Another version puts it like this > "And further, submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

One another, thats both sides submitting and obying eachother. It is reciprocal.

Also here in verse 25 "husbands LOVE your wives". How can you love without some submitting?

Also notice the other part "Wives should obey their husbands in everything, just as the church people obey Christ."

The church people are the husbands. They obey christ. To obey christ is to love and submit also to there wives needs.

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

In Islam, the admonishment is certain.

I do not know what the Jews think about it at all.

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

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It depends what you mean by obey I suppose.

I don't know anyone who believes in blind obedience denote consideration of violation of conscience

A husband must lead as a servant who loves his wife. A Christ like husband father is a leader servant like Christ

Ain’t none of you heard the adage
“Happy wife, happy life” before?

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

In Islam, the admonishment is certain.

I do not know what the Jews think about it at all.

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

Click to expand...

As practiced by many, the admonition simply means that on a particular decision, after discussion and consideration of all the variables, if there isn´t consensus, the husband is responsible for making the final decision.

In Islam, women are essentially chattel.

sun rise said:

It's easy to look for any one perspective and ignore a rounded view. Male dominance was true for all the major world religions but it's more complex than simple dominance.

For example,

WOMEN IN ISLAM : Prophet Mohammed (Peace & Mercy of GOD Be Upon Him) Defined it very Beautifully: Be careful-do not make a woman cry, because Allah (SWT) counts her tears. A WOMAN CAME OUT OF A MANS RIB. NOT FROM HIS FEET TO BE WALKED ON, NOT FROM HIS HEAD TO BE SUPERIOR OVER, BUT FROM HIS SIDE TO BE EQUAL, UNDER THE ARM TO BE PROTECTED AND NEXT TO THE HEART TO BE LOVED

and these Islam: -

“The most complete of the believers in faith, is the one with the best character. And the best of you are those who are best to their women.”

`A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah would give her a vessel to drink, when she was menstruating, then he would look for the spot where she had put her lips on and put his lips on the same spot.

Anas narrated that the Prophet had a Persian neighbor who was good in cooking soup. One day he prepared some soup and invited the Prophet to it. `A’ishah was present so the Prophet suggested to the neighbor that she should join them. The neighbor refused to include her in the invitation. The Prophet, therefore, declined the invitation.

The Persian repeated the exclusive invitation for the Prophet who, once again, declined the invitation.

In the third attempt, the Persian neighbor invited both the Prophet and his wife, `A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her). Then, the Prophet accepted his invitation and went with `A’ishah to the man’s house.

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Where did he lay down the rules on how to beat your wife ?

Maybe the neighbor didn´t want a 6 year old spilling soup.

What is the whole point with menstruation and where she/he put their lips on a cup ? Just plain very weird to me.

Jollybear said:

Actually there IS receprocity there.

Look > verse 21 "give way to EACHOTHER."

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If that's true then why bother with the comments in verses 22, 23, and 24?

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I can never figure out what this "obey" business is all about. My partner and I don't "obey" one another...we ask one another our opinions on this or that, our choices on what to do, and somehow find a way to figure out what to do together. Or, and here's the real point, sometimes not! I want to go to a movie and he wants to go the Art Gallery? Not a problem...the movie's over at 4:30 and the gallery closes at 5:00, so how about we hook up at 5:30, have a couple of drinks, then go home for supper?

Don't know who's in charge of the laundry? Wait it out...the first one with no clean underwear and socks will find an answer.

And I have a really serious question: is it not possible that a husband and wife (or in my case, a husband and husband) can agree to disagree about some issue, and still get along superbly well? We're nearly 3 decades in, and that notion hasn't failed us yet.

ChristineM said:

The court statistics dont need your approval. I provided a state by state map of divorce percentage, its accurate and closely mirrors the most religious states

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playing with numbers.

You can't get a divorce if you never marry:

"This hits on a key distinction between New York City couples and those elsewhere -- whether New York couples are headed for marriage or not, a higher percentage of them end up living together early on because it makes so much financial sense."

Do New Yorkers Actually Not Want to Get Married?

Ellen Brown said:

It's been just yonks since I have even thought about this issue. I doubt that this is taken seriously in most western Christian cultures. My old denomination has gone strangely silent on it.

In Islam, the admonishment is certain.

I do not know what the Jews think about it at all.

Rachel Held Evans, a respected Christian writer had written on it and I just read that she died today. I'll likely make some effort to look up her article.

Click to expand...

and if the angels turn out to be feminine...……

oh oh