• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

40% of peered reviewed scientific articles can't be reproduced

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Go actually read them.... but then that’s why you just make rhetorical claims and fail to support your assertions
Where is all your false bravado, manufactured facts and personal attacks? These are your claims that you obviously cannot support.

It is oodles and oodles of never ending poodles, applied to bacteria.

You cannot admit even one tiny error. Remember. You failed that test. So I do not see you having the courage of spirit to own up to any of the false statements about biology that you have made.
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
Go actually read them.... but then that’s why you just make rhetorical claims and fail to support your assertions
Are you giving me another example of how avoiding questions is done? Clearly you are a giver, but this is too much. I did not get you anything. Except questions that you seem unable to answer, where, given your claims, you should know the answer to them. That, and an expectation that you would be honest and respond to those questions.

This is really going to make your attempts to falsely claim I am avoiding the subject look pathetic.

Talk to me Goose.
 

Dan From Smithville

What we've got here is failure to communicate.
Staff member
Premium Member
You have committed your first lie.

Nobody said that either "proved" evolution. In fact, piltdown man NEVER fit with evolutionary predictions. It was contrary to evolution.


Small changes over time add up to big changes. Hence how huskies are a variation of dog, which is variation of wolf, which is a variation of a mammal, which is a variation of a vertebrate, which is a variation of a eukaryote.


Correct. What DOES indicate it is an investigation of the evidence.


Nope, that's not even remotely like what I wrote. It's quite simple: if you believe all the fossil record shows is "species staying the same before going extinct", then you MUST believe species suddenly pop into existence fully formed without changing for thousands of years and then go extinct, and then another species pops into existence fully formed that - for no apparent reason - shares many physiological similarities with the previous species despite being entirely unrelated and then going extinct, and that this process happened thousands of times for every species we have ever discovered in the fossil record.

So, is that what you believe?


What are you talking about?


Please stop projecting. You've already outright lied once in this post.
You are much more charitable than I am. By my count that first lie came many, many, many posts ago. But now or before, it is clear that as a Bible-believing creationist, he is not above throwing out that teaching to support that teaching. It is a weird paradox, but it is what he has. He is making the best of a big bad situation where he does not want reality to be true and, gosh darn it, it just is not fair.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
You do realize it doesn’t mean it is either. It’s not my burden to prove punk unicorns exist.

They have fossil evidence of unicorns, but they were not pink.

From: Extinct 'Siberian unicorn' may have lived alongside humans, fossil suggests

Extinct 'Siberian unicorn' may have lived alongside humans, fossil suggests
This article is more than 3 years old


Scientists said that creature, which looked more like a rhino than a horse, went extinct 29,000 years ago instead of 350,000 after finding skull in Kazakhstan

Ellen Brait in New York


Painting of the Elasmotherium sibiricum or ‘Siberian unicorn’ by Heinrich Harder. Photograph: Public Domain
An extinct creature sometimes described as a “Siberian unicorn” roamed the Earth for much longer than scientists previously thought, and may have lived alongside humans, according to a study in the American Journal of Applied Science.

Scientists believed Elasmotherium sibiricum went extinct 350,000 years ago. But the discovery of a skull in the Pavlodar region of Kazakhstan provides evidence that they only died out about 29,000 years ago.

Unfortunately, despite its sizable horn, the “Siberian unicorn” looked more like a rhinoceros than the mythical creature its nickname refers to. It was about 6 feet tall, 15 feet long, and weighed about 9,000 pounds, making it more comparable to a woolly mammoth than a horse.
 

Justatruthseeker

Active Member
So cool how you totally IGNORED the fact that I blew your idiotic claim that courts compare the entire genome "loci by loci" out of the water.. Poor fellow...

LOL!

Well... if the sequences matched, it isn't really random, is it, genius? You have never done a BLAST search, have you?

Here - give it a try:

BLAST: Basic Local Alignment Search Tool

Here is the FOXP2 gene in mice:

Foxp2 forkhead box P2 [Mus musculus (house mouse)] - Gene - NCBI

You can see that it is on Chromosome 6 in the mouse.

Here are mRNA transcript sequences for the mouse:

RefSeq RNA Links for Gene (Select 114142) - Nucleotide - NCBI

On the right side of that page, there is a menu, one of the buttons of which is "Run BLAST".

Click on it. Don't worry about all the options, just click the button "BLAST" on the bottom left.

In about 15 seconds, you will get your results. Since I doubt you will do this, I will provide a few observations -
There are hundreds of returns. Keep in mind that the search sequences are all 6k or so in length - since you know so much about genome sequences, how often do you think a 6k sequence will randomly match another taxon's sequence by 80% or more?

You must believe it is very common to write the things you do.

Here is another one - human msx1 gene:

human msx1 - Nucleotide - NCBI

Let's pick the complete cds (this is the DNA sequence), about 5K:

Homo sapiens muscle segment homeobox 1 (MSX1) gene, complete cds - Nucleotide - NCBI

Again, on the right, click "Run BLAST"

When you get the results, mouse over the red lines - the 4th one down is to a gibbon. Click on it. Click 'Alignment'. It shows that there is a 97% identity.

Looking for the chimp version, 98%.

With your vast understanding of genetics and statistics and the like, what are the odds, do you think, that a 5 kilobase human sequence would just randomly match - at 98% identity - a sequence in a chimp? And at but a single locus?

You make it very, very obvious that you have no experience whatsoever in doing any of these sorts of analyses.

Amazing. How do YOU know if these things are found in multiple places in the genome?
And isn't it odd that when I did that BLAST for the human genes, that there were not multiple returns to the human genome?

Kind of blows your made-up claims out of the water.
Like how you just ignored the fact that I DESTROYED your ignorant claim about courts and and DNA testing?

Anyway - what did I ignore, exactly? You have made these charges but all you ever do is repeat them - you have never once provided any rationale for your claim, no sources that support them, and you've never made an attempt to demonstrate them at all.


Yes - those people are called morons.

People that actually understand these issues and have backgrounds and experience in such things can tell when poseurs are pretending to know things that not only can they not know, but are in fact rather foolish and naive.
Your lame repetitious assertions may impress the simpletons at the water cooler, but to anyone with a biology background, you just come across as desperate and uninformed.

But no, you go ahead and embarrass me - prove that you are right and I am wrong.

SHOW that sequence matches of hundreds or thousands of bps in length just pop up haphazardly all over the genome. SHOW that these identical sequence has different functions. SHOW that we cannot use such sequences to infer phylogeny - to do so, you will have to show that all of those papers that I paste now and then are demonstrably wrong, and that all of the hundreds of other such papers are also demonstrably wrong, and so on. I'm sure you can do it!


SHOW that courts really do compare complete genomes "loci by loci", thus negating all of the information available from the FBI and the National Institute of Justice - I am sure they will want to update their records based on your documentation!


Can't wait!


Really? Tell me more!



Interesting - the sub-title is:

"Proteins encoded by the same gene can play very different roles in the cell, scientists show."

Hmmm... Did you read beyond the title? Or how about the keywords at the bottom - did you see them:


Keywords: alternative splicing, protein, protein isoforms

Nothing about being randomly placed around genomes?

If I were you, I would immediately contact the publisher and let them know that the subtitle and the keywords counter your 100% correct implication and interpretation that this is about and supports the notion that this is really about how random matching sequences show up all over the genome, and that there are multiple gens or something, not sure what you mean.


Oh and the content, too - because it talks about alternative splicing and how a gene's [protein can be altered in different tissues and such, and nothing about how the gene cannot be used to infer phylogeny or anything like that, as it really must since you implied it does.

But seriously - as far as you reading it beyond the title, it seems not, because the subtitle kind of shoots down your implication that this brief news release somehow supports your repeated and unsupported notion that there are "randomly matching similar sequences regardless of their actual position or function in the genome".



Cool distraction, champ!

Looking forward to you DEMONSTRATING any of your claims for once:


- placement within the genome that defines function
- courts compare entire genomes
- phylogenetics relies on randomly matching sequences that are apparently all over the genome






I comprehend entirely that you are so spectacularly clueless re: genetics and evolution and biology that you cannot even tell how completely naive and, frankly, idiotic you sound when you keep repeating these claims that you have never once even attempted to justify or support.

I did my first alignment in 1996, and there was nothing 'random' about it at all. You've never taken a biology class.

And it is so cool how you just totally ignored my complete demolition of your sheer stupidity re: courts and DNA testing all so you could just regurgitate your laughably naive nonsense about which you are clueless.

I hope you are fooling yourself, because you are not fooling anyone else.

But do keep it up - I enjoy watching the farce that is creationism crumble due to the ignorance of its adherents.
Sad you can’t even accept reality.....

The sequence CATG will match a few hundred thousand locations in the genome......

Why are you trying so hard to ignore reality? Because pseudoscience is all you have?

They even told you they looked for any matches within the genome (that you can’t understand this means random matching) just shows how deep your denial of reality is to keep your fantasies alive.

Such a shame really that none of you actually understand what you claim to believe in....
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Sad you can’t even accept reality.....

The sequence CATG will match a few hundred thousand locations in the genome......

Why are you trying so hard to ignore reality? Because pseudoscience is all you have?

They even told you they looked for any matches within the genome (that you can’t understand this means random matching) just shows how deep your denial of reality is to keep your fantasies alive.

Such a shame really that none of you actually understand what you claim to believe in....

The reality is you do not have any remote knowledge of the genetics involved, here and only interpret it based on your religious agenda and not science. It is very unfortunate.
 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Don't hold your breath. You might as well ask the pooka Harvey the rabbit.

What makes you think that you can't get answers from Harvey? It may take a few drinks to get him to start speaking, but I am sure that they have a more solid base in reality than any of our science deniers can give.

Hmm, I wonder what Harvey thinks of tequila?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
You do not have any remote knowledge of the genetics involved, here and only interpret it based on your religious agenda and not science. It is very unfortunate.

You have left a trail littered with misrepresentation of science, false statements about science, Creationist assumptions not based on science, and random disconnects.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
What makes you think that you can't get answers from Harvey? It may take a few drinks to get him to start speaking, but I am sure that they have a more solid base in reality than any of our science deniers can give.

Hmm, I wonder what Harvey thinks of tequila?

Harvey is my buddy, but he talks too much about Harvey.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It's math.
If 70% can't be reproduced that is more than 2 to 1 70% is more than 2:1 compared to 30%

So what?!?!?! Have read the responses and reasons why the results of many published articles are not reproducible, and what disciplines are involved in science? You continue with this unethical dishonest line of reasoning, based on a religious agenda, and with a.lot of one liner cheap shots without merit.

The 30% accumulates as the foundation of science, and the reasons computers work, airplanes fly and the science of evolution has a very consistent predictable record.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
So what?!?!?! Have read the responses and reasons why the results of many published articles are not reproducible, and what disciplines are involved in science? You continue with this unethical dishonest line of reasoning, based on a religious agenda, and with a.lot of one liner cheap shots without merit.

The 30% accumulates as the foundation of science, and the reasons computers work, airplanes fly and the science of evolution has a very consistent predictable record.

The minority of what's claimed?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The minority of what's claimed?

True. have read the thread and explanations of the scientific research and published papers, and how science works?

Over time the flawed research is sorted out, I am not referencing only to reproducibility here, but many reasons over the history of scientific research that even reproducible research has been corrected, rejected based on the new evolving knowledge of science, and that which can be replicated reinforces the predictability and falsifiable research that science builds the knowledge of science.
 
Last edited:

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It's math.
If 70% can't be reproduced that is more than 2 to 1 70% is more than 2:1 compared to 30%

The maths isn't faulty. The inputs to the maths are.

70% of scientists have come across studies they can't reproduce.
This is ENTIRELY different to saying 70% of studies can't be reproduced.

At best you're guilty of misunderstanding the basic proposition.
 
Top