Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

MJFlores · Apr 28, 2019

Skwim said:
Too bad none of these "basics" lend any credibility to its claims. That was your purpose in posting them was it not?

.

Of course there was information to these basics.
And that isn't one twentieth of it.
and below isn't even one tenth of it.

MILLIONS of people accept the Bible as the basis of their faith. For thousands of years, it touched the lives of many. No other religious books can equal the influence of the Bible regarding religion, literature, and civilization.

Let us first have an introduction to this book called the Bible.

What is this Book called the Bible?

The following describe what the Bible is:

The Bible is a collection of sixty-six (66) books.
Generally, the Bible is divided into two: the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Others simply define the Old Testament as the collection of the biblical books written before the time of Christ or before the Christian era, and the New Testament as the collection of the biblical books written after the ascension of Christ or during the first century of the Christian era.
The Old Testament is composed of 39 books.
The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and a few parts were written in Aramaic.
The New Testament is composed of 27 books.
The New Testament was originally written in Greek (Koine Greek or “Common Greek”).
These biblical books were written in different places and in different times by about forty men.
The biblical books were written for a period of 1,500 years. The first five books (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) were written about 1447-1407 BC. While the last book of the Bible (the book of Revelation) was written about 90-100 AD.
The biblical books are divided into chapters and verses.
In addition, the biblical books were written in different literary form (e.g. historical narrative, biography, poetry, etc).
The Bible was also translated into different languages and dialects (translated into about 2,200 languages and dialects). This is the reason why we have the English Bible and the Pilipino Bible.
The Bible is also a book of:
- History
- Religion
- Prophecy
However, the Bible is also not an open book, but a mystery hidden in ages.

The Bible: A Book of History

The Bible is a book of history. The Old Testament contains the history from Creation to the return of Israel from captivity. The New Testament tells the story of the Savior and Founder of the Church, Jesus of Nazareth, and the history of the Church of Christ during the apostolic period (the first century A.D.).

The Old Testament history may be divided into ten periods:

In the Beginning. The period from Creation to the Confusion of Tongues. It also includes the story of Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Seth and his descendants, Noah and the Great Flood, and the Confusion of Tongues.
The Patriarchs of Israel. The second period begins with Abraham and ended with Jacob and his household descent into Egypt. It also includes the story of Isaac, Esau ad Jacob, the twelve sons of Jacob, and the story of Joseph.
The Sojourn in Egypt and the Exodus. This period also includes the forty years wandering of Israel in the wilderness.
The Conquest of Canaan. The Bible tells the story of how Israel conquered Canaan through the leadership of Joshua, the successor of Moses.
The period of the Judges. The Bible tells the history of Israel before the establishment of the monarchy, where the nation was led by those called the Judges.
The United Monarchy. The Bible tells the story of the reign of Saul, David and Solomon.
The Divided Kingdom. The Bible tells how the kingdom was divided into two: the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Israel. The period started with the reign of Rehoboam and ended with the Fall of Samaria in 722 B.C.
The Survival of the Kingdom of Judah. This was the period after the Fall of Samaria where only the southern kingdom remained, the kingdom of Judah. The period ends with the Fall of Jerusalem in 587 B.C.
The Babylonian Captivity. The Bible tells the story of the history of the Jews during the Babylonian captivity. It includes the story of Ezekiel, Daniel, the three Hebrews and Esther.
The Return to Jerusalem. The Bible tells the story of the return of the Jews in Jerusalem, the rebuilding of the temple and the walls of Jerusalem.

The New Testament history may be divided into two periods:

The ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible tells the story of the life of our Lord Jesus Christ from His birth to His ascension in heaven.
The First Century Church of Christ. The Bible tells the history of the Church established by Christ in the first century.

Thus, the Bible tells the story of God’s Standing policy of Election – how God from the very beginning elect people to serve Him and be His chosen people (from Seth and his children, Noah and his children, Abraham and his children, the Nation of Israel, and the Lord Jesus Christ and His Church).

The Bible: A Book of Religion

The Bible is a religious book. It teaches who the true God is, the true worship of God, and God’s commandments. It is an inspired book and gives wisdom that will lead to salvation and useful for teaching the truth. This what Apostle Paul said in II Timothy 3:15-17:

“And you remember that ever since you were a child, you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living, so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed.” (II Timothy 3:15-17, TEV)

Indeed, the Bible is where the words of God are written. Right understanding of this book brings about spiritual nourishment and enlightenment as underscored by Apostle Paul.

Unlike other books on religion, the Holy Scriptures or the Bible is inspired by God. It contains not only moral principles but also the right doctrines that will guide one toward becoming a complete man of God. The Bible is the only book that will lead man back to his Creator, and will bring men to salvation. For this reason alone, it can be said that it is the “book of books.”

The Holy Scripture or the Bible must be the only basis of our services to God. These what the Bible pronounce:

“Only fear the LORD, and serve Him in truth with all your heart; for consider what great things He has done for you.” (I Sam. 12:24, NKJV)

We must serve God in truth with all our heart. The truth referred to is the word of God that sanctifies (John 17:17, NKJV), the word of God is written in the Scripture that was inspired by God (cf. II Tim. 3:15-16). Apostle John attests that those who know God keep His commandments:

“Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.” (I John 2:3, NKJV)

Apostle John also attests that those who truly love God also keep His commandments:

“For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.” (I John 5:3, NKJV)

The beloved Apostle also attests that those who say that they know God, but does not keep His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them:

“He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (I John 2:4, NJKV)

Apostle Paul strictly prohibits us not to go beyond what is written:

“Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.” (I Corinthians 4:6, NKJV)

Thus, the Bible must be the only foundation of our faith.

The Bible: A Book of Prophecy

The Bible is a book of prophecy. Revelation 22:18-19 clearly attests that this book is a book of prophecy:

“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” (Revelation 22:18-19, NIV)

Also in Revelation 1:3, the Bible further pronounces that this book is a book of prophecy:

“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.” (Revelation 1:3, NIV)

Why the Bible is said to be a book of prophecy?

“Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.” (Revelation 1:19, NKJV)

There are those written in the Bible about the things which will take place. The Bible is full of prophecies of the things to come. The fulfillment of these prophesied proves the divine authorship and origin of this book, the Bible.

MJFlores · Apr 28, 2019

Skwim said:
Too bad none of these "basics" lend any credibility to its claims. That was your purpose in posting them was it not?

.

That is why people are gaga over this book
and are nuts over it
thinking they could understand it
But the Bible....

THE BIBLE: NOT AN OPEN BOOK

The modern biblical criticisms regard the Bible as an ancient literature that can be understood through the studies of the oral tradition behind the document (Form Criticism); the studies of the document itself, its method, style, and purpose of the author, the written and oral sources he used (Literary Criticism); the study of the editing of Biblical books (Redaction criticism); and the comparison of manuscripts of the Bible in the original languages and versions, including quotations by ancient authors, to determine as nearly as possible the original wording (Textual Criticism).

These scholars believe that they can understand the Bible through the method they used to understand other ancient literary documents. However, unlike other books, the Holy Scriptures or the Bible is inspired by God (II Tim. 3:15-17). It contains not only moral principles but also the right doctrines that will guide one toward becoming a complete man of God. It is the only book that will lead man back to his Creator and to salvation.

But there is one thing about the Bible, which everyone must understand – that it is not an open book, as many believe it to be. This is attested by one of God’s inspired writers:

“Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began.” (Romans 16:25 NKJV)

The Bible or the word of God is a “mystery kept secret since the world began.” Thus, it is no ordinary book that could be understands or interpreted but just anybody who can read, nor even through methods of modern criticisms. This is why the apostle Paul quipped:

“Always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (II Tim. 3:7 NKJV)

So, it wrong to regard the Bible as an ancient document that can be understood through the methods use to understand other ancient literature. It is also wrong to think that the Bible can be understood by themselves. Even though a person knew the ancient Biblical languages, but let us always be reminded that according to the Bible, “Always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of truth.” How true indeed! There is only one Bible yet there are so many different and contradictory beliefs. Interpretations, and teachings spawned by these preachers and scholars.

Who then can understand the Bible? Our Lord Jesus Christ declared this to His disciples:

“And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables,” (Mark 4:11 NKJV)

Without being given understanding or revelation, one can never know the truth. This compels us to ask further, “Who, then, is given understanding of God’s words and, therefore, can preach them?” The Lord Himself further clarified:

“For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure.” (John 3:34, NKJV)

Those sent by God – His inspired messengers – are the ones exclusively given the understanding of His words: they speak God’s words. On the contrary, those who are not sent cannot preach the true gospel. They cannot lead man to the true understanding of God’s words and, eventually, to salvation. Apostle Paul wrote:

“And how shall they preach unless they are sent?…” (Romans 10:15, NKJV)

Only those sent by God can preach His words for to them have been revealed His mystery. Those who are not sent will only lead man to his own destruction (II Peter 3:16).

OtherSheep · Apr 29, 2019

sooda said:
Thos chariots look heavy.. like war chariots.. and those aren't horses.. What's an onager?

Assyrian sea people? That never occurred to me.

Snake worship was pretty popular and widespread.. all over the Levant, Arabian peninsula and Indus Valley.

It never occurred to me that the Amorites were Hamitic.

OH... Almost forgot, the Sumerian chariots seem to have been the prototype... a crossover from farm equipment. Ridgeway (Early Age of Greece) counts the spokes on the later models, and says 8-spokes belonged to the Achaean-Celts who invaded Troy... and isn't that what we see on the chariots of the Hurrians? Along with the round shields. Ridgeway's book is so much more than the early age of Greece; the two volumes (had he not died before finishing the last one) read like a who went where in terms of the Europeans. One of the writers of the Trojan was... Cretensis, I think, says he was there and describes the leaders... anything from short to tall and tanned to palest blonde. Mixed races, even then? or overlords from other nations? as were the Mitanni over the Hurrians.

That map pretends the Amorites were Hamitic, by the name. So does the compiler who wrote the Table of Nations.

Keep in mind that the Akkadians were Arabs, and maybe some races of the Indus were too. Look for pics of the Bedouin from Sir Flinders Petrie. The Assyrians are what the Akkadians became, and they were in Anatolia by Sea Peoples time. I'm not saying that the Assyrians were sea people, but they certainly influenced those who became pirates because of the conquest of Troy. Oddly, we see the crest-shaking Dorian headdress on the horses in Hurrian land. Some say the Syrians (whatever they mean by the name) spoke the Dorian form of Greek. Pharr wrote a book on Homeric Greek, and says Homer wrote in the earliest form. In my mind, and since Homer calls the Cretans Pelasgian, that means Homer might have known Minoan-Pelasgian... that his version is closest to what was Greek before the "Coming of the Greeks." The Aeolic Digamma furnishes a clue to where the Trojans went, since the Romans carried a version of it. The Greek shows up in Palestine around the time of the Philistines... it also was found in Tel el Hessy (sp?). It is said that the Greek is closer to Armenian than it is to whatever Indo-Iranian means.

Now, back to the Amorites. In the link containing the 6 pieces of evidence, the author says the Amorites were... pretty much in the place we hear the Ashkenazi coming from to destroy Babylon with the aid of Mitanni and Ararat. If this finds more support than it has here, that would make the Ashkenazi the father of the Nordics (whatever is meant by Germans is left out). Some say the Black Sea took its name from Ashkenaz, and Bochart's map shows Ashkenaz between Constantinople and the Troad... with Gomer as the Phrygians(?). Sayce (in my newest thread) says the Armenians became the Phrygians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Geographia_Sacra,_Samuel_Bochart_(1599-1667).jpg

At least one author says that the Table of Nations was written to reflect where people were at the time it was written, in the late 200s B.C. Another author says that Lydia in Anatolia shows the Assyrian advent into Anatolia.

sooda · Apr 29, 2019

OtherSheep said:
That map pretends the Amorites were Hamitic. So does the compiler who wrote the Table of Nations. Keep in mind that the Akkadians were Arabs, and maybe the Indians were too. Look for pics of the Bedouin from Sir Flinders Petrie. The Assyrians are what the Akkadians became, and they were in Anatolia by Sea Peoples time. I'm not saying that the Assyrians were sea people, but they certainly influenced those who became pirates because of the conquest of Troy. Oddly, we see the crest-shaking Dorian headdress on the horses in Hurrian land. Some say the Syrians (whatever they mean by the name) spoke the Dorian form of Greek. Pharr wrote a book on Homeric Greek, and says Homer wrote in the earliest form. In my mind, and since Homer calls the Cretans Pelasgian, that means Homer might have known Minoan-Pelasgian... that his version is closest to what was Greek before the "Coming of the Greeks." The Aeolic Digamma furnishes a clue to where the Trojans went, since the Romans carried a version of it. The Greek shows up in Palestine around the time of the Philistines... it also was found in Tel el Hessy (sp?). It is said that the Greek is closer to Armenian than it is to whatever Indo-Iranian means.

Now, back to the Amorites. In the link containing the 6 pieces of evidence, the author says the Amorites were... pretty much in the place we hear the Ashkenazi coming from to destroy Babylon with the aid of Mitanni and Ararat. If this finds more support than it has here, that would make the Ashkenazi the father of the Nordics (whatever is meant by Germans is left out). Some say the Black Sea took its name from Ashkenaz, and Bochart's map shows Ashkenaz between Constantinople and the Troad... with Gomer as the Phrygians(?). Sayce (in my newest thread) says the Armenians became the Phrygians.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Geographia_Sacra,_Samuel_Bochart_(1599-1667).jpg

At least one author says that the Table of Nations was written to reflect where people were at the time it was written, in the late 200s B.C. Another author says that Lydia in Anatolia shows the Assyrian advent into Anatolia.

Weren't the Amorites from southern Iraq?

OtherSheep · Apr 29, 2019

sooda said:
Weren't the Amorites from southern Iraq?

Sorry for editing, and then you reply to half a post... bad habit of mine.

Who knows where the Amorites originated? Chronology has a hard time keeping up with archaeology... especially given the politics of the thing. If I had to guess, I'd say some place mountainous, under another name. The Egyptian Monuments and the timing thereof are our best resource. Waddell compiled the writings we have left of Manetho... he does a pretty good job on his notes, but isn't allowed to say what he thinks of Josephus. Not being an author who wants to get published, I have no such restraints: Josephus seemed to think his audience would always be uninformed. If only the "Romans" hadn't burnt down Alexandria's libraries... but then, what would we be running to and fro about, these days, if knowledge didn't need to increase. When the knowledge that has been destroyed has been compiled from bits and pieces, the world will hate the woman.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
You can't diss the moral laws of God / Christianity and say they are immoral by citing examples of people who violate them.

That's a cop out. Religious people say you can only have morals if they come from god. If the morals are man made they say why would people follow them.
But even people who believe the laws are from god break the moral laws. So the argument is moot. Gods law or mans law, people will violate morality either way.

But you actually can did the moral tenants of Christianity. Substitutionary magic blood atonement sacrifice is archaic and immoral. So is a god who creates humans and if they misbehave send them to hell for eternity.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

MJFlores said:
But you don't get to backpeddle. You were taking these prophecies literal, in fact you even counted up gods "days and hours" to be a literal exact 20 years of peace.

View attachment 28543

What did the bible say?

Revelation 8:1 New International Version (NIV)
When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

View attachment 28544

Sure there were wars between World War 1 and World War 2
Interwar period - Wikipedia

But the Bible refers to silence in heaven
Not localized wars but something global
Nobody is buzzing around in their planes globally

the interwar period was the period between the end of the First World War in November 1918 and the beginning of the Second World War in September 1939

The interwar period had over 100 wars. Saying there were no planes flying around is a complete re-working of history to suite your prophecy needs.
You're pretending that in WW1 planes were doing the same thing they were in WW2 and there was this big "silence" for 20 years.
That isn't what happened at all. Planes were used to gather information in WW1. WW1 was not an air war like WW2.
WW2 was the beginning of the airplane making a significant impact on the war. So the "silence in heaven" meaning airplanes as a major part of a war wasn't until WW2.

It doesn't matter, every single seal is mapped on to a random event and there isn't even any coincidences like with Nostradamus.
Again, this is why Christians do not claim these seals have happened yet, because it's ridiculous.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
Contrary to the view of many skeptics, there is considerable historical support for Jesus Christ. There are over forty authors / individuals who wrote about Jesus within 150 years of his life.

For Jesus there were 9 authors from the New Testament who wrote about him in the 1st century: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Author of of Hebrews, James, Peter, and Jude. There were 21 early Christian writers outside the NT - Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, Didache, Barnabus, Shepherd of Hermas, Fragments of Papias, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Theophious of Antioch, Quadratus, Aristo of Pella, Melito of Sardis, Diognetus, Gospel of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter, and Epistula Apostolorum. 4 heretical writings - Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Truth, Apocryphon of John, Treatise on Resurrection. And 9 secular non-Christian sources, including Josephus, Tacticus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Lucian, Celcus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Seutonous, Thallus.

Not this again.

ALL extra-biblical mentions of Jesus are just historians saying that there were Christians who worshiped Jesus from scripture.
None of them support actual historicity of Jesus.
Or they are known forgeries.
All later historians are again saying the same thing - that there are Christians who follow the gospels.

The gospels were all copied from Mark and Mark is not an eyewitness. We know they were copied because there are pages and pages of verbatim Greek before each new gospel added different stories.

"The gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke are referred to as the Synoptic Gospels because of a similar sequence and wording. They are also composed in Koine Greek and the majority of Mark and roughly half of Matthew and Luke coincide in content, in much the same sequence, often nearly verbatim."

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia

the gospels are not eyewitness accounts, written in a mythic style similar to other religious literature of the times and not considered historically reliable.

"The historical reliability of the gospels refers to the reliability and historic character of the four New Testament gospels as historical documents. Little in the four canonical gospels is considered to be historically reliable."

Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia

The gospels themselves we know are not eyewitness accounts because they say so in the title

Here is a panel of 6 experts (including a Christian Pastor) who comb over ALL evidence for Jesus, everything:

Everyone admits the same conclusion which is the same as the Wiki article, not historically reliable.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
Absolutely.

Who Wrote the Gospels?

Who Wrote the Gospels? Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship

That article is bogus. Some scholars think the gospels were names in the 2nd century? Not really.
The gospels all contain the Greek designation "Kata" in the title which means "as told to me by".
The names were added in the 2nd century. No scholar disputes this outside of a few fundamentalist apologists.

At 4:06 PhD R. Carrier explains this:

MJFlores · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
The interwar period had over 100 wars. Saying there were no planes flying around is a complete re-working of history to suite your prophecy needs.
You're pretending that in WW1 planes were doing the same thing they were in WW2 and there was this big "silence" for 20 years.
That isn't what happened at all. Planes were used to gather information in WW1. WW1 was not an air war like WW2.
WW2 was the beginning of the airplane making a significant impact on the war. So the "silence in heaven" meaning airplanes as a major part of a war wasn't until WW2.

It doesn't matter, every single seal is mapped on to a random event and there isn't even any coincidences like with Nostradamus.
Again, this is why Christians do not claim these seals have happened yet, because it's ridiculous.

Who actually made the first airplane?
Wilbur and Orville Wright
On December 17, 1903, Wilbur and Orville Wright made four brief flights at Kitty Hawk with their first powered aircraft. The Wright brothers had invented the first successful airplane. The Wrights used this stopwatch to time the Kitty Hawk flights.

11 November 1918 <----------------------------------> 1 September 1939

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hours = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.

I believe
You don't believe

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
So, you haven't read those basic evidence books, i.e.

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

How are you going to know the evidences for the life of Jesus Christ, etc., if you haven't done your proper due-diligence?

The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is in the book you haven't read.

And here's a documented miracle that's mentioned in the Gospels:

Documenting a Miracle

Documenting A Miracle

You haven't done your homework. And there is evidence - tons of it. Which is why you refuse to look at it because you don't want your unfounded skepticism shaken to the core.

There is zero evidence. I listened to Gary Habermas debate Carrier and Finly, as well as several of his lectures, it's the same old apologetics.

These accounts are written as mythology but even if one granted that back then there were many eyewitnesses to the resurrection, even then it's a bunch of stories.
Sia Babba has MILLIONS of eyewitnesses to his miracles in the early 1900's. There are millions of Hindu who will swear to his supernatural powers. Doesn't mean it's true.

Habermas also denies that some of the pagan gods were also dying/rising gods similar to Jesus and that simply isn't true.
There are 6 confirmed pre-christian dying/rising savior gods.

You're talking about "evidence" and the only thing you read is apologetics? The Case for Christ contains all arguments completely debunked.

manuscript authority
extra-biblical writers
archeological evidence
prophecy - all debunked here
Five Bogus Reasons to Trust the Bible • Richard Carrier

Using " infamous Christian apologist Gary Habermas" as a source of evidence is not evidence at all.

Spartan · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
Habermas also denies that some of the pagan gods were also dying/rising gods similar to Jesus and that simply isn't true."

Which pagan deity died for others and was PHYSICALLY RESURRECTED?

joelr said:

You're talking about "evidence" and the only thing you read is apologetics? The Case for Christ contains all arguments completely debunked.

manuscript authority
extra-biblical writers
archeological evidence
prophecy - all debunked here
Five Bogus Reasons to Trust the Bible • Richard Carrier

Using " infamous Christian apologist Gary Habermas" as a source of evidence is not evidence at all.

Click to expand...

Who said all I read is apologetics? I read the rants and arguments of skeptics all the time, which always fails to impress.

Spartan · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
That article is bogus. Some scholars think the gospels were names in the 2nd century? Not really.
The gospels all contain the Greek designation "Kata" in the title which means "as told to me by".
The names were added in the 2nd century. No scholar disputes this outside of a few fundamentalist apologists.

The evidence is clear about who wrote the Gospels - the traditional authors, and in the 1st century.

Who Wrote the Gospels? Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

MJFlores said:
View attachment 28701
Who actually made the first airplane?
Wilbur and Orville Wright
On December 17, 1903, Wilbur and Orville Wright made four brief flights at Kitty Hawk with their first powered aircraft. The Wright brothers had invented the first successful airplane. The Wrights used this stopwatch to time the Kitty Hawk flights.

View attachment 28702 View attachment 28703

11 November 1918 <----------------------------------> 1 September 1939

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hours = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Did the prophecy come to past?

First World War ended on November 11, 1918
Second World War started on September 1, 1939

YEAR MONTH DAY

1939 9 1
1918 11 11 .
20 years 9 months 20 days

Indeed, Revelation 8:1 came to past.

I believe
You don't believe

There were more airplane attacks AFTER WWI during your "peace" time than in WW!? Your prophecy hunting has made you ignorant of actual history. How dare you disregard all the bloodshed brought on by airplanes after WW!?!?

Post WW1 use of Aircraft in War starting in 1920:

Iraqi revolt against the British
After World War I, there were protests in Iraq against continued British rule. Many Iraqis across a wide spectrum of opinion opposed the British Mandate for Iraq. The Iraqi revolt against the British began, with peaceful demonstrations in May 1920. Initial demands were rejected by the British administration, and fighting broke out in June 1920. This was suppressed, with many deaths, and at very high costs to the Empire. A policy of 'aerial policing', an invention of Winston Churchill's was brought in. This amounted to bombing restive civilians, followed up by pacification by ground troops. This continued up to the mid 1920s.[18] The aerial campaign included Sir Arthur Harris, 1st Baronet, who commanded a Vickers Vernon squadron engaged in the bombing and strafing of recalcitrant civilians.[19] Harris felt that the Arab civilians required this kind of "heavy hand" treatment

Somaliland Campaign
Following the end of World War I, the British stepped up their efforts in their war against the Somali Dervish movement, led by the so-called "Mad Mullah", whom they had been fighting for the control the area formerly known as British Somaliland. However, they had been unable to defeat the Dervish movement for nearly 25 years. In January 1920, the British launched a combined aerial and land attack, bombarding Taleeh, the capital of the revolt.[21] The Somaliland Campaign has been described as one of the bloodiest and longest-running conflicts in the history of sub-Saharan Africa and the Somali forces are noted for concurrently repelling the invading British, Italian and Abyssinian forces for a period of 25 years.

Tulsa race riot
In the United States during the Tulsa race riot of May 31 – June 1, 1921, private aircraft flown by white men dropped kerosene bombs on the Greenwood neighborhood.

Cristero War
Main article: Bombing of Naco
During the Cristero War in Mexico in 1929, Irish pilot and mercenary Patrick Murphy mistakenly dropped several improvised "suitcase bombs" on the border town of Naco, Arizona, while bombing government forces in the adjacent town of Naco, Sonora, for the Cristero revolutionaries. The bombing, which caused damage to many buildings and injured several bystanders on the American side of the international border, became the first aerial bombardment of the Continental United States by a foreign power in American history.[

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

MJFlores said:
View attachment 28701
Who actually made the first airplane?
Wilbur and Orville Wright
On December 17, 1903, Wilbur and Orville Wright made four brief flights at Kitty Hawk with their first powered aircraft. The Wright brothers had invented the first successful airplane. The Wrights used this stopwatch to time the Kitty Hawk flights.

View attachment 28702 View attachment 28703

11 November 1918 <----------------------------------> 1 September 1939

The Bible also explicitly said that there was “silence in heaven for about half an hour” when the seventh seal was opened:

“When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” (Revelation 8:1 NKJV)

As already mentioned, the “heaven” refers to “heavens of men” (Lev. 26:19). Also take note that “one day to God is one thousand years to man”:

“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” (II Peter 3:8 NKJV)

One day to God is one thousand years to man. One day is 24 hours. Dividing one thousand years with 24 hours is “one hour is 41 years and 8 months.”

One day = One thousand years
24 hours = 1,000 years
1 hours = 41 years and 8 months
Half hour = 20 years and 10 months

Second Italo-Abyssinian War
The Italians used aircraft against the Ethiopian cities in the Second Italo-Abyssinian War. For example, in February 1936, the Italian invasion forces in the south prepared for a major thrust towards the city of Harar. On 22 March, the Regia Aeronautica bombed Harar and Jijiga as a prelude. Both cities were reduced to ruins even though Harar had been declared an "open city"

Spanish Civil War
During the Spanish Civil War, the Nationalists under Francisco Franco made extensive use of aerial bombing on civilian targets. Nazi Germany gave aircraft to Franco to support the overthrow of the Spanish Republican government. The first major example of this came in November 1936, when German and Spanish aircraft bombed Republican-held Madrid; this bombardment was sustained throughout the Siege of Madrid.[28] Barcelona and Valencia were also targeted in this way.[29] On 26 April 1937, the German Luftwaffe (Condor Legion) bombed the Spanish city of Guernica carrying out the most high-profile aerial attack of the war. This act caused worldwide revulsion and was the subject of a famous painting by Picasso,[30] but by the standards of bombings during World War II, casualties were fairly minor (estimates ranging from 500 to 1,500).[31][32]

Shortly after, the front-page headlines of the Diario de Almeria, dated June 3, 1937, referred to the press in London and Paris carrying the news of the "criminal bombardment of Almeria by German planes".[33]

Barcelona was bombarded for three days beginning on 16 March 1938, at the height of the Spanish Civil War. Under the command of the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, Italian aircraft stationed on the island of Majorca attacked 13 times dropping 44 tons of bombs, aimed at the civil population.[34] These attacks were at the request of General Franco as retribution against the Catalan population.[35][dubious – discuss] The medieval Cathedral of Barcelona suffered bomb damage and more than one thousand people died, including many children. The number of people injured is estimated to be in the thousands.[36] Many others Spanish towns and cities were bombed by the German Legion Condor and the Italian Aviazione Legionaria among them Jaen, Durango, Granollers and Alicante.
Second Sino-Japanese War

Casualties of a mass panic during a Japanese air raid in Chongqing (Chungking).
During the Manchurian Incident of 1931, the Japanese widely used airplanes to indiscriminately bomb key targets and cities, such as Mukden. After the Marco Polo Bridge Incident, the Imperial Japanese Army Air Service, in conjunction with the Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service, began relentlessly bombing Shanghai, Beijing (Peking), Tianjin (Tientsin) and several cities on the Chinese coast from the beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937.

The bombing campaigns on Nanking and Canton which started in September 1937 evoked protests from the Western powers culminating in a resolution by the Far Eastern Advisory Committee of the League of Nations. An example of the many expressions of indignation came from Lord Cranborne, the British Under-Secretary of State For Foreign Affairs:

Words cannot express the feelings of profound horror with which the news of these raids had been received by the whole civilized world. They are often directed against places far from the actual area of hostilities. The military objective, where it exists, seems to take a completely second place. The main object seems to be to inspire terror by the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians .

Spartan · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
That's a cop out. Religious people say you can only have morals if they come from god. If the morals are man made they say why would people follow them.
But even people who believe the laws are from god break the moral laws. So the argument is moot. Gods law or mans law, people will violate morality either way.

But you actually can did the moral tenants of Christianity. Substitutionary magic blood atonement sacrifice is archaic and immoral. So is a god who creates humans and if they misbehave send them to hell for eternity.

Nobody is perfect. All have sinned. Christians aren't perfect either, but repent and are saved in Jesus Christ.

I always get a kick from liberal-leaning skeptics talking about how blood sacrifices are archaic, while as a group they overwhelmingly support gutting the innocent unborn, which in many cases is a sort of sacrifice to themselves as their own gods, so they won't be tied down and have to be responsible for their actions.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
The evidence is clear about who wrote the Gospels - the traditional authors, and in the 1st century.

Who Wrote the Gospels? Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship

Ha, clearly you don't read "skeptics" because you simply ignored all the PhD and just denied it rather than explain anything.
And you said the evidence is CLEAR about who wrote the gospels and the article you linked to doesn't even say that? It says evidence "suggests"!

That article is Arguments for Traditional Authorship. "Arguments"
The arguments are not backed up by scholarship, the author is not a historian, has no PhD and is simply an apologist writer. Please provide scholarship sources rather than crank articles.

Not only do you not read dissenting opinions you don't even read your own source. Your mind is simply made up.
Which is fine, but if you think that's evidence that's hilarious.
You claim to read skeptic material but your posting an amateur article as if it's complete proof? Even the article doesn't claim that?

Neither you nor the article even tries to explain the original Greek "Kata" designation which means "as told to me by".
Welcome to apologetics where you just ignore facts if they don't support your beliefs.

Again, 4:06

And Wiki, historical reliability of the gospels:

"Strictly speaking, each Gospel is anonymous....During the following centuries, each canonical gospel was attributed to an apostle or to the close associate of an apostle.[59] Most scholars have rejected the traditional attributions."

Spartan · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
Ha, clearly you don't read "skeptics" because you simply ignored all the PhD and just denied it rather than explain anything.

I've listened to spiritually-challenged liberal pundits for decades. And with a few exceptions I REJECT their conclusions.

joelr said:
"Strictly speaking, each Gospel is anonymous....During the following centuries, each canonical gospel was attributed to an apostle or to the close associate of an apostle.[59] Most scholars have rejected the traditional attributions."

Nonsense. I've seldom seen any conservative scholars reject the traditional authors. That's a liberal position, which has not been compelling to any degree.

joelr · Apr 30, 2019

Spartan said:
Nobody is perfect. All have sinned. Christians aren't perfect either, but repent and are saved in Jesus Christ.

I always get a kick from liberal-leaning skeptics talking about how blood sacrifices are archaic, while as a group they overwhelmingly support gutting the innocent unborn, which in many cases is a sort of sacrifice to themselves as their own gods, so they won't be tied down and have to be responsible for their actions.

Magic blood sacrifice is still archaic, as is religious cults who try to convince people they are magically born with "sin" but their demi-god sacrifice will fix everything if they just believe.

Your post makes no sense. You just excused an epidemic of child raping priests as "well no ones perfect?" But because "Jesus" their child raping will go unpunished. Yay! Good for everyone!

Yeah, sacrifice is tribal nonsense and people should generally not have abortions and take care of their children or give them up for suitable homes. So what?

Spartan · Apr 30, 2019

joelr said:
Magic blood sacrifice is still archaic, as is religious cults who try to convince people they are magically born with "sin" but their demi-god sacrifice will fix everything if they just believe.

Without the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ there will be entire populations winding up in Hell. But Jesus' blood sacrifice is the last one needed in history.

joelr said:
Your post makes no sense. You just excused an epidemic of child raping priests as "well no ones perfect?" But because "Jesus" their child raping will go unpunished. Yay! Good for everyone!

I don't know where you get this twisted theology from. Everyone who sins needs to repent of their sins, receive Christ as their Savior, and turn from their wicked ways. Or, they will drop down into Hell, along with all unbelievers (Rev. 21:8).

Nine Pieces Of Evidence That Confirm The Historical Accuracy Of The Bible

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