Where was God...

Faithofchristian · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
Oh, so here we go down THAT rabbit hole, ehh? Where things said to be, are not necessarily how they are MEANT to be.

I am cognizant with the concept of a "light" coming on in a person's mind, when they learn of something they had not previously known,
So, what do YOU supposed God meant when (He) said, "Let there be Light"? And then when you're done with that, maybe you can 'enlighten' me as to WHERE was God when (He) uttered those infamous words?

No better yet, What light was that,
That God said in Genesis 1:3--"Let there be light" What light is that, Compared to Genesis 1:14-16
14--"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15--"And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16--"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also"

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shunyadragon said:
It is not a matter of knowing nor not knowing God. It is how God is defined that theists like Jews, Christians, and Muslims. God is considered eternal and infinite, and without beginning nor ending.

That's all well and good. However, my point was OTHER than those who WROTE about it many millennia ago, HOW would any finite mortal human being even "know" THAT much about an otherwise ineffable God?
For that matter, how did the ones that WROTE it, "know" it to be factual and true?

Deeje · Apr 26, 2019

lewisnotmiller said:
Hmm...if I said 'No' doesn't Scripture get largely reduced to guesswork?
Makes sense to me, but....

Contrary to popular belief, science doesn't really know the half of it.....or even a fraction of what there is to know......So "what" God is will remain a mystery until we have the mental capacity to comprehend him. We have a long way to go methinks.....

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

Faithofchristian said:
No better yet, What light was that,
That God said in Genesis 1:3--"Let there be light" What light is that, Compared to Genesis 1:14-16
14--"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15--"And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16--"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night:

I am conversant with biblical creation theory. Not particularly a big fan of it, but 'conversant' with it.

[/QUOTE]he made the stars also"[/QUOTE]
Almost mind you.....ALMOST, sounds like it was an 'afterthought, to mention those stars.....all tens of billions of trillions of them.....yes, oh by the way, "I made the stars, too". <quote/unquote> God.

shmogie · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
It is said that God is eternal and created everything. That being the case.....where was God BEFORE God 'created' a place for (Himself) to be?

What makes you think He needed a place to be ?

shmogie · Apr 26, 2019

Deeje said:
Contrary to popular belief, science doesn't really know the half of it.....or even a fraction of what there is to know......So "what" God is will remain a mystery until we have the mental capacity to comprehend him. We have a long way to go methinks.....

Another subject, you and I were having a conversation re the NWT and I lost track of what thread it was in.

Would a new thread on the NWT be acceptable to you to continue our discussion ?

Deeje · Apr 26, 2019

shmogie said:
Another subject, you and I were having a conversation re the NWT and I lost track of what thread it was in.

Would a new thread on the NWT be acceptable to you to continue our discussion ?

Sure

shunyadragon · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
That's all well and good. However, my point was OTHER than those who WROTE about it many millennia ago, HOW would any finite mortal human being even "know" THAT much about an otherwise ineffable God?
For that matter, how did the ones that WROTE it, "know" it to be factual and true?

None do, The belief in the 'Source' some call God(s) based on faith, and not knowing what God is, though some believe they do know, but in reality they do not KNOW. Nonetheless all the Abrahamic beliefs believe that God is eternal and infinite. Your question has no meaning to anyone in the Abrahamic religions, because there is no 'before' God. I guess one could invent a belief system where there is a 'before' God.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shmogie said:
What makes you think He needed a place to be ?

Sounds like something that I would ask, heh heh heh.
Anyway, according to what it written in that Book, God is said more often that not, to be somewhere in Heaven, Sitting on (His) Throne.
It is believed by the majority of believers, that God is "omnipresent", which by loose definition means God is EVERYWHERE at all times and NOWHERE at any particular time.
To me there is an obvious contradiction there....but of course, that is just how I see and interpret it.
I personally have a problem with the the omnipresent attribute as being quite unrealistic, even in principle.
Which brings me BACK to the issue of WHERE was God before God created a place for (Himself) to be?
Unless God is nothing more than a figment of ones imagination, I figure God HAD to have "been" somewhere OUTSIDE of (His) creation......I am just seeking clues and any reasonable opinions of just WHERE or WHAT that place might be.
So far.....no such luck.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shunyadragon said:
Your question has no meaning to anyone in the Abrahamic religions, because there is no 'before' God. I guess one could invent a belief system where there is a 'before' God.

WHY do people INSIST on coming up with this notion of there not being anything BEFORE GOD, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the initial question that I posited?
I need to ask you.....as to just what it is, that prompted YOU to go that particular route?
Once again, this is NOT about any such thing as "before God". It is SOLELY about before creation.......where was God, in what sort of state of existence, in what place, was God, BEFORE God created a place for (Himself) to BE?

shunyadragon · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
WHY do people INSIST on coming up with this notion of there not being anything BEFORE GOD, when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the initial question that I posited?

If they insist, because that is what they believe. They do not know

I need to ask you.....as to just what it is, that prompted YOU to go that particular route?
Once again, this is NOT about any such thing as "before God". It is SOLELY about before creation.......where was God, in what sort of state of existence, in what place, was God, BEFORE God created a place for (Himself) to BE?

These questions are unanswerable from the human perspective regardless. Humans cannot KNOW nor INSIST on knowledge before Creation.

God is eternal and infinite. He did not Create a place for himself, because there is no place to create. God does not change before nor after Creation. God is not claimed to be knowable in this absolute sense in the Abrahamic religions. In fact the Baha'i Faith believes that our physical existence is an eternal Creation with God as the shadow is to the object. As long as the shadow exists the object exists eternally.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shunyadragon said:
As long as the shadow exists the object exists eternally.

Only during the day. At night, there are no "shadows".

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shunyadragon said:
God is eternal and infinite.

So you BELIEVE, but cannot possibly actually "know".

shunyadragon said:
He did not Create a place for himself, because there is no place to create.

So God is simply just 'out there', in the unfathomable nothingness....outside of and apart from (His) creation. Ok.

shunyadragon said:
God does not change before nor after Creation.

I never said nor suggested that (He) did...I guess you were just compelled to say that.

shunyadragon said:
God is not claimed to be knowable in this absolute sense in the Abrahamic religions.

Hah! Try telling that to all the believers who feel that they actually have a PERSONAL relationship with their unknowable God.

shunyadragon said:
In fact the Baha'i Faith believes that our physical existence is an eternal Creation with God as the shadow is to the object.

Those Bahais, believe that God has NEVER existed without (His) creation...that the two are eternally inseparable....yet at the same time ARE separate.
I do not really care to get involved with Bahai logic, or the lack thereof.

sealchan · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
It is said that God is eternal and created everything. That being the case.....where was God BEFORE God 'created' a place for (Himself) to be?

Before God created the Universe He/She/It was the Nothing-Yet of Infinite Potential.

shunyadragon · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
So you BELIEVE, but cannot possibly actually "know".

No one can "know." Your demands for answers are fundamentally beyond human knowledge.

So God is simply just 'out there', in the unfathomable nothingness....outside of and apart from (His) creation. Ok.

No, not OK. This again is unknown.

I never said nor suggested that (He) did...I guess you were just compelled to say that.

He? I did not suggest you did. It was your question that is unanswerable. It is known,

Hah! Try telling that to all the believers who feel that they actually have a PERSONAL relationship with their unknowable God.

That is their problem. Let them answer it,

Those Bahais, believe that God has NEVER existed without (His) creation...that the two are eternally inseparable....yet at the same time ARE separate.

In the Baha'i Faith God is not defined specifically as separate nor apart. God simply exists beyond human comprehension.

I do not really care to get involved with Bahai logic, or the lack thereof.

You asked the questions. I am a Baha'i and you will get answers related to the Baha'i Faith. I also will give comparative beliefs of different beliefs.

shunyadragon · Apr 26, 2019

sealchan said:
Before God created the Universe He/She/It was the Nothing-Yet of Infinite Potential.

I consider this speculation.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

sealchan said:
Before God created the Universe He/She/It was the Nothing-Yet of Infinite Potential.

Finally! A decent answer. Thank you.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

shunyadragon said:
No one can "know." Your demands for answers are fundamentally beyond human knowledge.

Then why do your responses come across as though you DO know?

shunyadragon said:
No, not OK. This again is unknown.

Same response as above.

shunyadragon said:
He? I did not suggest you did. It was your question that is unanswerable. It is known,

Yes, (HE)...meaning God......you stated that God does not change before or after creation.
I never MADE any such accusation, therefore it was unnecessarily for you to have responded as you did.....unless, as I suggested, you felt 'compelled' to.

shunyadragon said:
That is their problem. Let them answer it,

I hear you...and I fully intend to...but hold out little hope of them actually doing so.

shunyadragon said:
In the Baha'i Faith God is not defined specifically as separate nor apart. God simply exists beyond human comprehension.

That's not what Bahaullah said.

shunyadragon said:
You asked the questions. I am a Baha'i and you will get answers related to the Baha'i Faith. I also will give comparative beliefs of different belief.

I don't MEAN to be sounding rude, but are you not capable of independent thoughts of your own?
I am not speaking from the perspective of necessarily what a Christian believes, but what I myself believes, or does not believe.
I would expect the same from you in return, if you don't mind.

atanu · Apr 26, 2019

ACEofALLaces said:
Answer it again and I PROMISE to be paying strict attention.

Thank you for that.

In a REAL debate situation, what you offered with your sleep stuff would be considered a "strawman'. However, I indulged you anyway and responded to it....only to be accused of being insulting.

If I would have side stepped the question it would have been a ‘straw-man’. But I did not do it. I just used a simile to make my answer vivid and closer to our own experience.

I suppose...if you say so. I do not necessarily agree with it though.

As per my understanding of the Vedas and other scripture, the Brahman exists devoid of space-time. We are within the singularity-brahman-God— manifest or un-manifest.

Most of us think that God (the reality, the source) is external to us. Rather we are manifest in Brahman.

I am not asking you to believe what I said, since I do not have any conventional evidence. Take it as my answer only.

ACEofALLaces · Apr 26, 2019

atanu said:
Thank you for that.

I do try....I really DO.

atanu said:
If I would have side stepped the question it would have been a ‘straw-man’. But I did not do it. I just used a simile to make my answer vivid and closer to our own experience.

Sounds fair enough...moving on...

atanu said:
As per my understanding of the Vedas and other scripture, the Brahman exists devoid of space-time. We are within the singularity-brahman-God— manifest or un-manifest.

Most of us think that God (the reality, the source) is external to us. Rather we are manifest in Brahman.

I must admit to not being particularly well-versed in ANY religion, never having been affiliated with any during my entire life.
I do know more about Christianity, a little less about Judaism, considerably less about Islam, more than I actually care to about Bahaiism, and literally nothing about Hinduism.
So I must therefore plead the "5th" in regards to your beliefs.

atanu said:
I am not asking you to believe what I said, since I do not have any conventional evidence. Take it as my answer only.

I never took any of what you said that way. I am hear to learn and also to share what i believe, even if it is not compatible with what most believe.
One thing that you did say that was interesting, in that it reminded me of Panentheism, where you are your God are one. There was a time when I embraced Panentheism.....now I am just a lone wolf, trekking down my own path....destination unknown.

Where was God...

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