Satan beats people up so they won't be saved

74x12 said:

Jesus cursed the fig tree because He was giving His disciples a spiritual lesson by doing so. The lesson is that God wants His disciples to be fruitful in season and out of season. That is to be bearing good fruit when it's convenient and when it's inconvenient. That's not to be confused the with the analogy I'm talking about here which is using fruit as symbolic of people who can be saved.

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So, it was an OBJECT lesson, was it? And the OBJECT of that lesson, if I understand it correctly, is when encountering someone who knows OF God and Jesus and the Bible, but rejects it out of hand, that person should be chastized and then literally executed on the spot!....right?....or as was in the "OBJECT lesson, curse the man so that he wilts and dies within the same day?...got it.

ok....so the book of Job got mentioned
and no one got it right

the SONS of God gathered to present themselves
note.....more than one son

with them came the devil
as if he belonged there

and GOD gets in the devils face and wants to know.....
what the HELL are you doing here?

oh....well....I don't need your permission to be here
I can come and go as I DAMN well please to

Have you considered the least of my servants?....Job

that would be an insult in the devil's face
not to be considered as a son of God
not worthy the comparison to the least of servants

now the devil has something to prove
not God
not Job

Oh well Job cares only because You give him good things
(as if to slight the spirit of Job)

God does not offer a wager
that is a misconception
God has nothing to lose

and though Job does suffer
it is not the will of God such things happen

God said to the devil …..do as you will unto Job

and the devil proved only......the evil of his own spirit

Hubert Farnsworth said:

So tell me, why did your god create this being called satan if satan always tries to mess with God's plans?

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Actually, he was in charge of worship and was perfect until pride came his heart.

As far as "why", since the Bible doesn't really deals with that question, we will have to wait until we get to Heaven to ask Him.

Satan? I had a blind date once, ...

74x12 said:

He drags people into sins and makes them suffer pain and degradation so they will be forever alienated towards their Creator.

1 Peter 5:8-9
2 Corinthians 2:11

Isaiah 42:22
But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore.

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No, Satan pretends to be something he is not. Satan controls the great religions of the world so people will think they are worshipping God but are actually worshipping Satan. He does not need to drag people into sin, they are very good at doing that without help.

74x12 said:

Sure, he's a master manipulator. The point of my thread is not to discuss how satan does it but that he does it.

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The topic of this thread says “Satan beats…”. I think it can’t be accepted, unless explained how it is done. If you don’t know how it is done, there is no reason to think it is done. And I think Satan doesn’t beat, because I have no reason to think so.

1213 said:

The topic of this thread says “Satan beats…”. I think it can’t be accepted, unless explained how it is done. If you don’t know how it is done, there is no reason to think it is done. And I think Satan doesn’t beat, because I have no reason to think so.

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I do know how it is done. It matters little what you think about Satan beating or not beating. The book of Job makes it obvious what Satan gets himself up to doing when he gets a chance.

lostwanderingsoul said:

No, Satan pretends to be something he is not. Satan controls the great religions of the world so people will think they are worshipping God but are actually worshipping Satan. He does not need to drag people into sin, they are very good at doing that without help.

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Trust me, Satan will play on people's weaknesses and manipulate them into sin and he will keep them in prison. But that's not really what this thread is about is it? It's about how Satan targets some people with beating them up (psychologically) so they will be alienated towards God.

ACEofALLaces said:

So, it was an OBJECT lesson, was it? And the OBJECT of that lesson, if I understand it correctly, is when encountering someone who knows OF God and Jesus and the Bible, but rejects it out of hand, that person should be chastized and then literally executed on the spot!....right?....or as was in the "OBJECT lesson, curse the man so that he wilts and dies within the same day?...got it.

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No, you're taking it way to literally.

Has anyone considered that the bible is written by people who follow God/ Jesus, and want to convince others to do so too- Hence, like a political party, they will put their 'party' in the best possible light and the opposition in the worst.

Stevicus said:

I suppose the main question would be is, why go through all this? Is the process more important than the end result? If the goal is for humans to live in the Spirit, why not just create them that way in the first place? Why bother creating us with flesh if that's a flawed design which leads to sin?

When you really cut it down to the nuts and bolts of our existence, it seems that life is nothing more than some kind of sadistic endurance contest. And Jesus' role in this contest is to give us a free mulligan.

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... A sadistic endurance contest. No, not exactly. And Jesus does give us free grace but it's important to keep that gift in context.

First of all, as I've been saying this life is designed to bring out good fruit(virtue) in people. God wants us to become virtuous and better people. So, no it's not about endurance; but endurance does help you get there.

As for the grace given by Jesus. We shouldn't ignore how Jesus said to all His followers "take up your cross and follow me" so we all have to follow Jesus into suffering like He endured.

Here is how we should view the grace of Jesus Christ; rather than a "free mulligan".

If this world were a prison full of condemned people. Jesus is the One who is not guilty of any crime; but voluntarily enters the prison to show the prisoners a better way to live and gives them a chance to eventually get out of the prison; if they can show that they have improved themselves.

dingdao said:

Not quite prosecuting attorney, or at least in that capacity.
Hey, God
Yea, Satan
See Job down there?
Yea
He worships you, he obeys the Torah
Yea?
I bet I can flip him.
What's at stake?
I win, you implement my March Madness bracket.
Your on
So Job loses everything because of a bet he had no part in.

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Yet, it would be foolish to think that God is foolish. God had a greater purpose in the whole thing.

QuestioningMind said:

ROFL... yeah, you have exactly as much verifiable evidence for your Satan as I have for the magical fairies that live in my attic. It's amazing what people are capable of deluding themselves into believing.

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And even more amazing how Satan can delude people into disbelieving the obvious.

Mindmaster said:

Yeah, it does. If evil exists and God exists God made evil and is fine with it.

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God certainly ordained it's existence and it's end also. God is not fine with evil; but He does have a temporary use for it. (Isaiah 48:10)

Mindmaster said:

And what is evil anyway?

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Evil is being out of line with the Word of Creation. If God spoke all things into existence; then the Word of God is what creates us always. If we get out of line with it then we are destroying ourselves. We're in effect; undoing creation. Scattering ourselves back to chaos/the abyss.

Mindmaster said:

If what is evil is simply not following the precepts of The Bible to a tee then there are obvious points of argument, given that that's a man-made material shaped by religious bias, politics, and transcriptional error.

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The scriptures ultimately point to God and the need for people to be in touch with God. So it's not just a list of rules to follow. In fact the Bible says about itself "Not to the letter, for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"

So, we should not live to the written Word; but we should live to and through the Spirit that God wants to give us.

Mindmaster said:

On forgiveness or faith - I have no guilt, absolutely none... It's a completely useless emotion -- wallowing in self-pity and shame...

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It encourages people to change and it can be abused. But what I meant by guilt was not self guilt. But the fact we are guilty of something.

Mindmaster said:

Why the hell would God care anyway? You're just a speck of dust in comparison to the creation. It's sort of arrogant to presume that you are any more important then a pile of dirt to such a creature.

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God doesn't do anything without a reason and He doesn't make mistakes.

Mindmaster said:

These sound like man's wishes for the sky daddy and not what the thing really would be.

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God is not just someone floating around in the clouds or something. The entire creation emanates from the infinite Mind of God and is upheld by the Word of God.

Mindmaster said:

I find it hard to believe that the little relatively insignificant meanderings of your life are going to offend such a being.

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You'd take interest also in your own children.

Mindmaster said:

If he exists why does he care if you believe in him or not? I don't care if you believe I exist, and I'm sure you don't care if I believe you do.

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If we don't believe in God; then we're made easy prey for satan.

Mindmaster said:

This is more made up nonsense... The particulars are a cacophony of human projections onto a limitless being, not something the ultimate creator would likely think. Of course, presuming for the sake of the argument that there is a personality or ego to offend in this divine force in the first place; of which, no one truly knows either way.

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We can know.

Mindmaster said:

Also, no where in the Bible does Satan ever act out of malice nor is it implied that he does/did. You, or your faith are making that stuff up.

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Revelation 12:12

Mindmaster said:

Stop it.

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Never.

Mindmaster said:

When Job is tested he literally asks God if he can test him, but while he's doing it he's not sitting there chuckling at the poor sap while he's suffering.

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No, he didn't laugh because Job passed the test. If Job failed then satan laughs. Otherwise he's more angry than he was before.

Mindmaster said:

If anything, it's simply Satan's duty to do what he had been doing since the Garden. At least, if there is any truth to The Bible at all.

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Then why would God throw Satan in Gehenna at the end? (Matthew 25:41)

74x12 said:

Trust me, Satan will play on people's weaknesses and manipulate them into sin and he will keep them in prison. But that's not really what this thread is about is it? It's about how Satan targets some people with beating them up (psychologically) so they will be alienated towards God.

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If Satan beats you up, why be angry with God? Why not be angry with Satan?

74x12 said:

No, you're taking it way too literally.

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Oh REALLY! Well, excuuuuuse me! So I need to simply use my IMAGINATION to conjure up a more "religious-sounding" explanation?

74x12 said:

And even more amazing how Satan can delude people into disbelieving the obvious.

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SO funny! IF it was 'obvious' then you'd have far more verifiable evidence for your Satan than I have for my magical fairies. Sadly, you do NOT. As it is, your Satan is JUST as obvious as my magical fairies... which is to say, they are BOTH made up nonsense.

QuestioningMind said:

SO funny! IF it was 'obvious' then you'd have far more verifiable evidence for your Satan than I have for my magical fairies. Sadly, you do NOT. As it is, your Satan is JUST as obvious as my magical fairies... which is to say, they are BOTH made up nonsense.

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I wonder if questioning minds really want to know or just keep on with their own little ideas.

lostwanderingsoul said:

I wonder if questioning minds really want to know or just keep on with their own little ideas.

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What questioning minds do is ask for verifiable evidence when people make fantastical claims. What they DON'T do is accept fantastical claims that have no greater verification than a claim about magical fairies. Sadly, you appear to accept this fantastical claim that a Satan entity exists on NO verifiable evidence whatsoever.

Hubert Farnsworth said:

Your argument makes no logical sense. Why can't good exist without evil?

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Explain good without giving room for evil.