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A Hindu at Christmas

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
During most of my childhood I believed in Catholicism, but at 18 I started practicing Hinduism. I was happy with Hinduism for years. This year I bought a greeting card showing Vishnu and Lakshmi wearing Santa Claus caps, featuring the line "We Vishnu a Merry Christmas" and put it on my altar. I thought it would be funny but it had an unexpected effect on me. I became aware that to my knowledge Vishnu and Lakshmi never had kids together. Vishnu incarnates in his avatars, and there is Janmashtami, Krishna's birthday, but I started missing the religious "message" of Christmas. I had never expected that I would. On the other hand, a committed Christian can't "cherrypick" the aspects of Jesus. If you're a serious Christian you have to take the whole package, the crucified martyr together with the cute little baby in the manger. I don't feel like taking up Christianity again because in my eyes Christianity essentially fails to give a satisfying answer to the question "Why we suffer" (I spent my afternoon reading on that). The spectrum of answers goes from "offering your suffering to God" which to me feels very similar to the concept of taking somebody else's negative karma and, it and ends in describing an unpredictable, erratic god who hides himself for no reason. I always felt that Krishna, though not a god of my culture, is described as overall more friendly and more balanced than the god described in the of the Bible. I am fine with this 364 days of the year, but this Christmas it's weird. Maybe it is just nostalgia, but if I decided reconverting to Christianity the first act I'd have to do would be discarding all of my Hinduism books, pictures and statues I collected over the years. Apart from the fact that these objects have a certain material value, I think it would be sort of destabilizing to to this as they are a part of my life and I treat them respectfully. Maybe I shouldn't take up a religion if I can't respect its First Commandment. You can be a murderer and still be a Christian but you can't be a Christian / Catholic if you believe in "gods" not sanctioned by the Church. There are probably more Catholic saints than Hindu gods, one for every thinkable problem, disease or life situation under the sun. Apart from this, New Age followers worship their own versions of Jesus, Mary and the angels, so probably I just shouldn't worry so much.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
During most of my childhood I believed in Catholicism, but at 18 I started practicing Hinduism. I was happy with Hinduism for years. This year I bought a greeting card showing Vishnu and Lakshmi wearing Santa Claus caps, featuring the line "We Vishnu a Merry Christmas" and put it on my altar. I thought it would be funny but it had an unexpected effect on me. I became aware that to my knowledge Vishnu and Lakshmi never had kids together. Vishnu incarnates in his avatars, and there is Janmashtami, Krishna's birthday, but I started missing the religious "message" of Christmas. I had never expected that I would. On the other hand, a committed Christian can't "cherrypick" the aspects of Jesus. If you're a serious Christian you have to take the whole package, the crucified martyr together with the cute little baby in the manger. I don't feel like taking up Christianity again because in my eyes Christianity essentially fails to give a satisfying answer to the question "Why we suffer" (I spent my afternoon reading on that). The spectrum of answers goes from "offering your suffering to God" which to me feels very similar to the concept of taking somebody else's negative karma and, it and ends in describing an unpredictable, erratic god who hides himself for no reason. I always felt that Krishna, though not a god of my culture, is described as overall more friendly and more balanced than the god described in the of the Bible. I am fine with this 364 days of the year, but this Christmas it's weird. Maybe it is just nostalgia, but if I decided reconverting to Christianity the first act I'd have to do would be discarding all of my Hinduism books, pictures and statues I collected over the years. Apart from the fact that these objects have a certain material value, I think it would be sort of destabilizing to to this as they are a part of my life and I treat them respectfully. Maybe I shouldn't take up a religion if I can't respect its First Commandment. You can be a murderer and still be a Christian but you can't be a Christian / Catholic if you believe in "gods" not sanctioned by the Church. There are probably more Catholic saints than Hindu gods, one for every thinkable problem, disease or life situation under the sun. Apart from this, New Age followers worship their own versions of Jesus, Mary and the angels, so probably I just shouldn't worry so much.

Not being raised Christian, just in the cultural part (hard to avoid in Canada) I really can't relate. But there still is some solace in going back to my rural roots, just the open air, and maybe a sense of community. Nostalgia, mostly, but it's comforting. Boss went to temple this morning. I slipped on ice a few days back, spraining my ankle so I could hardly walk, but surprisingly, this day is always busy at our temple. It's like any other stat holiday, people just want something to do.

I was an observer on another forum this morning (non-Hindu, non-Christian) and the folks were discussing whether or not their faith would allow for the celebration of Christmas. What struck me as odd was how they were all debating their scripture on it. Nobody coud just be open and say, 'Heck if you want to celebrate, do, if you don't don't!' I felt like saying that, but I'm an intruder. Point being ... follow your heart. But personally, I think this idea will pass in a few days. Best wishes.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Happy New Year everyone. I waited a couple of days to allow things to settle. I think my conflict boils down to two different types of relationship with God, something the Hare Krishnas call rasa. To my knowledge, the concept of rasa doesn't exist in Christianity.

Catholicism is the religion of my childhood. Although I only got baptized as an adult because of opposition in my family, I was a very devout kid as I voluntarily adopted the religion of my grandmother. Yesterday, I attended Mass, and there was a lot of talking about God "the Father" and Mary the "Mother of God". Some years ago I read a book which stated that religion (or at least Christianity) reflects the mindset of a four-years old viewing their father as almighty, but at that time I didn't realize its explosive force, as it didn't explicitity mention Christianity but superficially dealt with the mythology of an exotic ancient diety that nobody knows (except possibly for the people on RF).

When I found the Bhagavad Gita at 18, it was not handed to me by a Krishna zealot. It was a translation without commentary that I had discovered in my local library. To make a long story short, its message appealed to me, especially that Krishna didn't threaten or force anyone to make them believe in him. Since childhood, I also had preferred epics over Grimm's tales because I liked the "action" part better. Fighting back sounded better than turning the other cheek. As a kid with disability, I had to put up with a lot of taunting from other kids, something that affected me until adulthood. I hated those kids, but Christianity commanded me to "pray for my enemies", and so I did.

To come back to the rasa issue I mentioned before, the sexy part of Krishna was not the main aspect that drew me towards him, but it certainly was a relevant one. The rasa with God-as-a-lover doesn't exist in Christianity, or it is just talked about in a very indirect, metaphorical may. In Christianity, you are a "child" of God and that's it. It's very homely to collectively live out being a "child" in a protected atmosphere like mass, but I am not sure whether it is a good foundation for life in general. I can't believe in the virginity of Mary anymore, as it puts all women in a bad light (they just must conceive somehow). As for Krishna's "weakness" for the gopis, I consider this aspect of his more "human" than the absolute denial of the body. I also can't imagine listening to traditional Catholic music for fun, as it is supposed to make you feel guilty.

These are my musings for now. I apologize if they come around a bit un-structured. I hope I didn't whine. Comments appreciated, as they may help me to see new aspects. Take care.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
For a while I've ben waiting for a personal relevation whether Hinduism or Christianity is right, but it wouldn't come. So, I am left to sort out things for myself. If one wants company, going to church is the easiest option, but my religious confession already fails at "I believe in God, the Father, the Almighty", because my own father was very strict, and no matter what theologicians say to preserve the dogma, I just can't separate the image of how "God the Father" is supposed to be from the experiences I had as far as my own father is concerned. The fact that Jahwe wanted his own son to totally give up his own life and everything is not very helpful either. I attended Mass on New Year's Day and it felt very "masculine" to me. The fact that I have learned about female goddesses now and how to awake these aspects of one's own personality shows how far I have already moved away from Christian dogma.

The difference I've found by myself in contemplating the differences between Catholicism and Hinduism is that in Catholicism, faith is externalized. In my eyes, faith in intact as long as the church building is still standing and to the extent you melt with the group. Thus, being in a church group may feels comfortable but may also invite spiritual laziness.

The second aspect I've come discover is that in Hinduism, spiritual realization to me is a process of "knowing" rather than one of blindly believing. In the Bhagavad Gita (9.2), it is written that "this knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed."

As for me, I have not experienced Catholicism as something "performed joyfully". Certain Hindu teachers as well as New Age authors try to blend Christianity with Hinduism by taking out the aspect of "suffering" (some call New Age "Western Hinduism"), but the question of suffering is the great stumbling block which separates New Age feel-good Christianity from Christianity as it is traditionally understood. IMHO, Hinduism aims at reducing spiritual suffering, while Christianity wants everyone to "take up their cross" and follow Jesus into suffering.

Even if I considered reverting to Catholicism, the "knowledge" I talked about would still be there and I can't deceive myself for whatever benefit-
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
The Culture of Death

Yesterday, I listened to a Mass and the priest used the slogan of "The Culture of Death". I tried to figure out what the culture of death actually is. Every culture tries to perpetuate itself by passing their values on to the younger generations and so is a culture of life. If I should name a culture of death, the first thing to come to my mind actually is the Church. Allegedly, Christianity is a religion of joy, but during Mass I feel that there's a kind of overall melancholy. The sign promoted in the Church is Christ crucified, not resurrected, and the Church teaches that you can't have life without death and suffering, and if you enjoy life without relishing thoughts of death and suffering, you're made to feel guilty.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
I had never thought that questioning my personal issues would also require questioning the religious beliefs of my childhood, but they do. Saying no to the Catholic Church, to Mother Mary and to "Father" God requires willpower from my side. It is a process and it won't be easy. I'm turning 40 this year and I always used to think that older generations go to church because they learned to do so in their childhood and / or feel safe in it while considering death. At least I always used to think that when I am older I would go to church regularly and that I would spend the rest of my life being a devout Catholic until I die. Well, I am turning 40 this year and and now I don't see my spiritual future in being a Catholic. While I was fence-sitting, I made friends with the local Catholic priest who wanted to talk about English literature. Making friends is not easy for me, especially making friends to have interesting conversations with. Giving up this friendship was a sacrifice for me, the only real sacrifice involved. He is a charismatic individual who still treats me as special the rare occasions when I show up at Mass. The final step would be taking up the courage to tell him I'm a Hindu. I've no idea whether it already went through the grapevine as for 3 years, I used to tutor a teenager from the parish, who can't have overlooked my deity pictures and statues, though he was too polite to make any comment about it.

The second issue I would like to address today is my view on prayer. When I was Christian, I never knew what to say in prayer, what was important and what was unimportant. I like that in Hinduism, it is sufficient to chant the names of God, that chanting the names of God already constitutes prayer. It affects the mind pleasantly, and it doesn't feel forced like overriding one's own will with the "will of God", or going to church when you actually don't want to. I like that in Hinduism, the spiritual world and the material world aren't polar opposites, and that you can chant as a "pastime". I guess Hindus who chant 16 rounds of Hare Krishna each day might put themselves under pressure, but that's a totally different question.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I had never thought that questioning my personal issues would also require questioning the religious beliefs of my childhood, but they do. Saying no to the Catholic Church, to Mother Mary and to "Father" God requires willpower from my side. It is a process and it won't be easy. I'm turning 40 this year and I always used to think that older generations go to church because they learned to do so in their childhood and / or feel safe in it while considering death. At least I always used to think that when I am older I would go to church regularly and that I would spend the rest of my life being a devout Catholic until I die. Well, I am turning 40 this year and and now I don't see my spiritual future in being a Catholic. While I was fence-sitting, I made friends with the local Catholic priest who wanted to talk about English literature. Making friends is not easy for me, especially making friends to have interesting conversations with. Giving up this friendship was a sacrifice for me, the only real sacrifice involved. He is a charismatic individual who still treats me as special the rare occasions when I show up at Mass. The final step would be taking up the courage to tell him I'm a Hindu. I've no idea whether it already went through the grapevine as for 3 years, I used to tutor a teenager from the parish, who can't have overlooked my deity pictures and statues, though he was too polite to make any comment about it.

The second issue I would like to address today is my view on prayer. When I was Christian, I never knew what to say in prayer, what was important and what was unimportant. I like that in Hinduism, it is sufficient to chant the names of God, that chanting the names of God already constitutes prayer. It affects the mind pleasantly, and it doesn't feel forced like overriding one's own will with the "will of God", or going to church when you actually don't want to. I like that in Hinduism, the spiritual world and the material world aren't polar opposites, and that you can chant as a "pastime". I guess Hindus who chant 16 rounds of Hare Krishna each day might put themselves under pressure, but that's a totally different question.

On the drive from my place to our temple, as preparation for that, I often chant Ganesha's 108 names, and try to time it to end just as the car stops. It's a nice little sadhana in the car. Sure beats blasting the radio.

The priest sounds pretty cool.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Today, out of curiosity, I called a man I had known as a member of my Krishna congregation who declared to me that he had become a Christian with the same utter conviction he had quoted The Bhagavad Gita As It Is a couple of months ago. When I last saw him in January 2019, he used to have health problems as he ate nothing but raw vegetables and had a strong distrust against conventional medicine. Instead, he used to run after yet another trend of New Age quackeries. (I have no idea if he still does, but I think he doesn't because he stated those Christians had "helped" him.) In addition to the Hare Krishna doctrines, he had been very verbose in trying to talk me into accepting quack medicine as well.

During the call, he brought up the idolatry argument and the argument that "you shouldn't worship people". He also said that the Krishnas never had helped him. I think it's because they believe in karma and I assume many of them like to think about themselves being something better with regard to others, despite Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's words of being "more humble than a blade of grass, more tolerant than a tree".

One fine day I should ask the question whether the belief in karma makes people pitiless, but for now I have to admit that that the belief in karma did work for me, effectively liberating me of the question why a perfect God would create / tolerate suffering. I am handicapped and so, this question this for me had always been a nut to hard to crack and had been one of the main reason to break away from Christianity.

Last week, "my" Catholic priest published an article in our newspaper, a sermon about what it is like to be handicapped. This priest is a charismatic, friendly guy but reading this text made me want to smack him something against the head. "Poor old happy lady in the wheelchair versus young, healthy, rich, good-looking guy without purpose in life."

I think that the problem surrounding handicaps is not the inability to physically do something but the psychological effects that come along with it.

With regard to this, again I liked the Krishna teachings better, because they believe that taking care of the need of the soul is the most important thing. However, I don't share their extreme view that becoming active for any cause other than religion is unnecessary or evil.

Another thing I don't understand particularly about Catholicism is how reliving the passion of Christ is to somehow make you feel better. I talked to a guy on a Catholic hotline who said that one should differenciate one's own suffering from that of the Christ, but I think subconsciously it is a chance for Catholics to pity themselves in the company of others. That's the only gain they have from it that I can imagine. To my knowledge, something comparable doesn't exist in Hinduism.

I've always shunned from talking to the priest about my thoughts, but maybe I should visit my recently-converted friend to see clearer, even if it ends up in just another litany.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The second issue I would like to address today is my view on prayer. When I was Christian, I never knew what to say in prayer, what was important and what was unimportant. I like that in Hinduism, it is sufficient to chant the names of God, that chanting the names of God already constitutes prayer.

I still don't know what it is to pray at a shrine, mine or the temple, in my own words. I see people standing at a shrine or sanctum and I wonder what they're saying, if anything... maybe just there taking darshan. Rather, I talk to the Gods at other times, I have regular conversations usually when I'm driving or some other quiet time. I suppose that and the chanting and singing do constitute prayer. I have a playlist of bhajans and mantras in my phone that I listen to while driving and/or at home. I chant or sing along with them. It's especially fun when the windows are down and I'm stopped at a light chanting something in Sanskrit. :D

During the call, he brought up the idolatry argument and the argument that "you shouldn't worship people". He also said that the Krishnas never had helped him.

The idolatry thing bothers me no end. I've taken to using the analogy of the telephone. You don't talk to the telephone, you talk through the telephone to who's on the other end. But sometimes people don't want to have their world rocked, or be confused with facts.

I also like the "But So-and-so didn't help me". :rolleyes: All the help we need is within us... how to get help, what to do, etc. I just ask for guidance and to help me find what's in me. There's the old saying "God helps those that help themselves" (and of course, God help those who get caught helping themselves :D).

Another thing I don't understand particularly about Catholicism is how reliving the passion of Christ is to somehow make you feel better.

I don't understand that either. What strikes me about the differences between Christian and Hindu art is that everyone in Christian art looks so sad, distressed and in pain. Someone I knew years ago said that in paintings Jesus always looks constipated. While in Hindu art, everyone depicted almost always has a smile or a laid back, or peaceful look.

The closest the two traditions come in the idea of suffering and offering suffering to God is in the Bhagavad Gita. I'm usually quick to point out that while the BG is a Vaishnava scripture, this is God speaking... any form of God would say the same things.

“In this world all actions, unless they are done as an offering to God, become causes of bondage. Therefore, work for the sake of God without personal attachments.” 3.9

"Always think of me, be devoted to me, worship me, and offer obeisance to me. Doing so, you will certainly come to me. This is my pledge to you, for you are very dear to me." 18.65

"Abandon all varieties of dharmas and simply surrender unto me alone. I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear." 18.66
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Dear @Jainarayan,

I also love bhajans and mantras and I so love aratis. As a kid at my grandmother's house, I would build a little (statue-free) altar and offer flowers to God. I read a lot of Greek mythology, and so I envied the Ancient Greek polytheists who had made wreaths for their gods and put them on their gods' statues.

The idolatry thing bothers me no end. I've taken to using the analogy of the telephone. You don't talk to the telephone, you talk through the telephone to who's on the other end.But sometimes people don't want to have their world rocked, or be confused with facts.


I wish I had a definite answer to the idolatry issue. Here in Germany, however, most traditional / mainstream churches (Lutherans and Catholics) do have figural decoration. Moreover, Moreover, Catholics worship the Eucharist, but I suppose they would be displeased if you told them that they pray to a piece of bread.


What strikes me about the differences between Christian and Hindu art is that everyone in Christian art looks so sad, distressed and in pain. Someone I knew years ago said that in paintings Jesus always looks constipated. While in Hindu art, everyone depicted almost always has a smile or a laid back, or peaceful look.


The Krishnas illustrate their books with 19th century-style monumental paintings, and quite a few of them feature figures with melancholic expressions. Either because being a Hare Krishna is so straining or because they aspire to become lovesick for Krishna "in separation". But you are right, in traditional Hindu art, almost everybody looks serene, and I like that.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Nina Hagen

I'd been wrestling hard with myself whether I really wanted to learn about the wails of another soul damaged in childhood, but I finally decided to read "Confessions" by German punk singer Nina Hagen, who converted to Lutheranism in 2009 after a life-long search for love which had led her to a Hindu phase around the year 2000. "Confessions" is the third book I had read about conversion to Christianity written by a woman after "I Dared To Call Him Father" by Bilquis Sheikh and "The Torn Veil" by Gulshan Esther. All three stories have in common that the authors desribe the affectionate nature of their fathers. In two books, there is also "loss" of the father because of death (Gulshan Esther) or divorce (Nina Hagen). I think that by becoming Christians these women try to "reactivate" their childhood experiences.

Well, that doesn't work for me.

In "Confessions", Nina Hagen describes her involvement in the group of a certain Indian guru named "Babaji". There are pictures of her wearing Indian clothes and descriptions of things like aratis. The group she was in seemed to have focused on Shiva/Shakti worship. In 2002, Nina Hagen released "Om Namah Shivay", a CD album containing mostly Shiva/Shakti bhajans and one recording of the Hare Krishna mantra.

To be fair, I can't comment much on this as the only book I had read about Shiva/Shakti worship is "Shiva: The Wild God of Power and Ecstacy" by Wolf-Dieter Storl, and I had read it more out of curiousity than out of actual belief in Shiva. I think of Shiva and Shakti more as intra-psychological archaic forces of male and female. In "Confessions", Nina Hagen describes herself as a little girl craving for attention in an ambiguous relationship with an over-ambitious, distant mother, a famous actress who forbade Nina to call her "mommy" in public. As part of the "Om Namah Shivay" album, Hagen released "Jai Mata Kali, Jai Mata Durge", and I can't help it, this video always fascinates and somewhat scares me. It is only one of the rare chances when you can see Nina Hagen without her make-up / "mask".


In "Confessions", Nina Hagen describes herself as having had some sort of "interfaith" religion while always identifying as a "Christian". She narrates how she told off a friend who had a Jesus statue together with a lingam for worshipping the saviour together with a "phallus symbol". I think sexuality is one of the areas Catholics fear or repress. Of course, in the book, Nina Hagen sees the guru and the Shiva worship as the devil incarnate who purposefully misled her. I suppose the fear/dislike of the religiously different is another factor which stabilizes the Christian identity. In a Christian pop song, it is said "I (God) am for you, I'm not against you", but I think everybody must find discover for themselves whether this is true.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
A Kali experience?

I don‘t know where this will be going to, but today, for the first time I had the upper hand in a quarrel with somebody who regularly used to defeat me. (I am not a quarrelsome person but sometimes enough is enough). I‘d dare to call it a Kali experience although in the past I used to be very much afraid of Kali. Kali probably is the deity which is the hardest to "sell" to people from a Christian culture, where the "wrath of God“ is declared the very basis of religion but the "wrath of the Goddess" simply doesn't exist. As far as this forum‘s Hindus are concerned, I appreciate your past efforts to explain Kali to me, but for me, it used to be a bit like listening to a foreign language. I also read books about Kali but Kali can't be learned from books either, (though Christianity probably can). This is not to say that I‘d end up as a Kali bhaktin (I think she and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would probably make a very odd couple) but this experience added a new facet to make the picture more complete. As I said, no ideas where this will be going to, but it‘s weird. Weird and beautiful.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Swami Vishwananda goes from Mauritius to Germany, and Sirona goes from Germany to Mauritius. :D:D:D

Mauritius and the Seychelles

A couple of days ago, for the first time in my life, I had the opportunity to go to some Hindu temples outside ISKCON. I went with my family, who I had to “compel” to go, as unfortunately they are not religious at all. I know I have very little to complain about, as they had given me the trip to Mauritius and the Seychelles for my birthday, but anyway it‘s not an ideal situation to go to a temple in the company of three outspoken atheists.

The first temple I visited was the Grand Bassin Temple in Mauritius, which is the most sacred Hindu temple of Mauritius and allegedly the largest Hindu sacred place outside India. On the parking lot, visitors are welcomed by two colossal statues of Durga and Shiva. When I got there, I met an old gentleman who was playing an Indian drum similar to a mridanga. He stopped playing and touched me, saying “hemal, hemal“. I googled “hemal“ and found out it can have two meanings, either “golden“ ot “idiot“. I genuinely hope he was referring to the positive meaning.

Outside the Grand Bassin Temple, there are colored statues of Dattatreya, Hanuman, Ganesh and Devi and people were worshiping them. I had to trample around in my sneakers like a dumb tourist as my family were in a hurry and wouldn’t let me take my shoes off. Inside the temple, I couldn’t see the main deity as people were singing and dancing around it in what apparently was some kind of Sunday celebration. Next to the entrance, there was another Durga statue. A friendly lady invited me to enter the temple, but I didn’t dare enter in shoes and with my family pressurizing me to finish up.

The next temple I visited was in Port Louis, Mauritius. There is a temple very close to the port with a largely visible colored temple tower, but the taxi driver bamboozled me, taking me to yet another temple in the port area. Mauritius has a 50 percent Hindu population, so at least there is no scarcity of temples on the island. This time, I could take my shoes off, as I went alone. The temple had 8 entrance ways for the eight cardinal directions and some nice lawn around the central building. Inside, it didn’t feature a central deity but several little rooms on three sides of the temple. The little rooms were tiled in white and had the deities in them. To me, the tiling looked a bit unappealing, but I guess there is a concept of purity behind it, as tiles are easy to clean.

The third temple I discovered was in Port Victoria, Seychelles. The population of the Seychelles is 95% Catholic, but I had started playing a game of spotting temples, so I found it. This time, surprisingly, my father went with me, probably because he had noticed I was serious about the temple issue and had already spent too much money on it. My father really hates to go to churches or temples, but this time, he also took his shoes off. This temple even had two priests, who advised us to circle the central deity clockwise, when we had started to walk through the temple counter-clockwise. This temple was the oldest and the most beautiful temple I went to. It was half-dark with little oil lamps and continuous Om chanting (which probably was playback as it sounded very uniform).

I know very well that you can’t learn about a religion or a culture in a couple of days, but I got an imteresting glimpse some may never get in their entire life.

As a souvenir, my father gave me a little Ganesh statue. It doesn’t really “fit” on my Vaishnava altar, but it is a maximum of tolerance given the fact that it comes from my father, so I can’t be picky. All in all, I am very grateful to have had such a nice holiday trip for free.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Swami Vishwananda goes from Mauritius to Germany, and Sirona goes from Germany to Mauritius. :D:D:D

Mauritius and the Seychelles

A couple of days ago, for the first time in my life, I had the opportunity to go to some Hindu temples outside ISKCON. I went with my family, who I had to “compel” to go, as unfortunately they are not religious at all. I know I have very little to complain about, as they had given me the trip to Mauritius and the Seychelles for my birthday, but anyway it‘s not an ideal situation to go to a temple in the company of three outspoken atheists.

The first temple I visited was the Grand Bassin Temple in Mauritius, which is the most sacred Hindu temple of Mauritius and allegedly the largest Hindu sacred place outside India. On the parking lot, visitors are welcomed by two colossal statues of Durga and Shiva. When I got there, I met an old gentleman who was playing an Indian drum similar to a mridanga. He stopped playing and touched me, saying “hemal, hemal“. I googled “hemal“ and found out it can have two meanings, either “golden“ ot “idiot“. I genuinely hope he was referring to the positive meaning.

Outside the Grand Bassin Temple, there are colored statues of Dattatreya, Hanuman, Ganesh and Devi and people were worshiping them. I had to trample around in my sneakers like a dumb tourist as my family were in a hurry and wouldn’t let me take my shoes off. Inside the temple, I couldn’t see the main deity as people were singing and dancing around it in what apparently was some kind of Sunday celebration. Next to the entrance, there was another Durga statue. A friendly lady invited me to enter the temple, but I didn’t dare enter in shoes and with my family pressurizing me to finish up.

The next temple I visited was in Port Louis, Mauritius. There is a temple very close to the port with a largely visible colored temple tower, but the taxi driver bamboozled me, taking me to yet another temple in the port area. Mauritius has a 50 percent Hindu population, so at least there is no scarcity of temples on the island. This time, I could take my shoes off, as I went alone. The temple had 8 entrance ways for the eight cardinal directions and some nice lawn around the central building. Inside, it didn’t feature a central deity but several little rooms on three sides of the temple. The little rooms were tiled in white and had the deities in them. To me, the tiling looked a bit unappealing, but I guess there is a concept of purity behind it, as tiles are easy to clean.

The third temple I discovered was in Port Victoria, Seychelles. The population of the Seychelles is 95% Catholic, but I had started playing a game of spotting temples, so I found it. This time, surprisingly, my father went with me, probably because he had noticed I was serious about the temple issue and had already spent too much money on it. My father really hates to go to churches or temples, but this time, he also took his shoes off. This temple even had two priests, who advised us to circle the central deity clockwise, when we had started to walk through the temple counter-clockwise. This temple was the oldest and the most beautiful temple I went to. It was half-dark with little oil lamps and continuous Om chanting (which probably was playback as it sounded very uniform).

I know very well that you can’t learn about a religion or a culture in a couple of days, but I got an imteresting glimpse some may never get in their entire life.

As a souvenir, my father gave me a little Ganesh statue. It doesn’t really “fit” on my Vaishnava altar, but it is a maximum of tolerance given the fact that it comes from my father, so I can’t be picky. All in all, I am very grateful to have had such a nice holiday trip for free.

Lucky you. We spent 3 months on Mauritius 6 or 7 years back. There's a lot of devotion amongst the inhabitants. Grand Bassin is spectacular, but was quite dirty when I was there. Impressive statues though. Maybe some day you can return on your own for a longer period. There are probably as many as 400 temples all around the island.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
During most of my childhood I believed in Catholicism, but at 18 I started practicing Hinduism. I was happy with Hinduism for years. This year I bought a greeting card showing Vishnu and Lakshmi wearing Santa Claus caps, featuring the line "We Vishnu a Merry Christmas" and put it on my altar. I thought it would be funny but it had an unexpected effect on me. I became aware that to my knowledge Vishnu and Lakshmi never had kids together. Vishnu incarnates in his avatars, and there is Janmashtami, Krishna's birthday, but I started missing the religious "message" of Christmas. I had never expected that I would. On the other hand, a committed Christian can't "cherrypick" the aspects of Jesus. If you're a serious Christian you have to take the whole package, the crucified martyr together with the cute little baby in the manger. I don't feel like taking up Christianity again because in my eyes Christianity essentially fails to give a satisfying answer to the question "Why we suffer" (I spent my afternoon reading on that). The spectrum of answers goes from "offering your suffering to God" which to me feels very similar to the concept of taking somebody else's negative karma and, it and ends in describing an unpredictable, erratic god who hides himself for no reason. I always felt that Krishna, though not a god of my culture, is described as overall more friendly and more balanced than the god described in the of the Bible. I am fine with this 364 days of the year, but this Christmas it's weird. Maybe it is just nostalgia, but if I decided reconverting to Christianity the first act I'd have to do would be discarding all of my Hinduism books, pictures and statues I collected over the years. Apart from the fact that these objects have a certain material value, I think it would be sort of destabilizing to to this as they are a part of my life and I treat them respectfully. Maybe I shouldn't take up a religion if I can't respect its First Commandment. You can be a murderer and still be a Christian but you can't be a Christian / Catholic if you believe in "gods" not sanctioned by the Church. There are probably more Catholic saints than Hindu gods, one for every thinkable problem, disease or life situation under the sun. Apart from this, New Age followers worship their own versions of Jesus, Mary and the angels, so probably I just shouldn't worry so much.


I was raised christian (CofE) but escaped age 14. As a teen in the UK one cannot escape the family and peer pressure of Christmas. Not until leaving home for uni did i realise there are alternatives. My first experience of this was in Scotland, where Christmas is celebrated but Hogmanay is more significant.

After getting married to an agnostic/atheist we held winter solstice parties at home and were more than willing to accept invites to Christmas (and new year) celebrations.

We had children and as they became aware we decided to hold a different celebration each year so the kids could experience different cultures (even if only at home).

The upshot is, the children have decided on a family celebration to be held yearly around solstice time. They chose Saturnalia for nothing more than the mercenary reasons, they get more presents.

We are halfway through our Saturnalia and are looking forward to Monday when one of the children is crowned king/queen for the day, the main presents are handed out and we can enjoy our Saturnalia meal.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
The poison of sectarianism

Today, accepting an invitation, I paid a visit to the fringe of the fringe. A Gaudiya Vaishnava couple apparently disappointed with the big evil ISKCON corporation over issues of authority has started to offer “mantra meditation” meetings of their own, borrowing heavily from the ISKCON formula. They broke up the chronological order of the songs sung during ISKCON programs (it's usually the same every week), adding some others, including Shiva mantras, into the blend. If I still were Catholic, for me, it would probably be an equivalent to messing up the order of the Mass and adding things that don’t belong there (I guess I just like patterns), but as it is an expression of Hinduism, it might probably wiser to take an attitude of “live and let live” and be happy about yet another opportunity where kirtan is sung and one more place where prasadam is served. I also met another Gaudiya Vaishnava couple at odds with ISKCON, who had traveled a long way likely for being with the other “righteous” couple. The Hare Krishna world is small, and in a country with few Hindu temples, you cannot just switch from one temple congregation to the next. As for a denomination with already few followers, the poison of sectarianism splits them into smaller and smaller units. In my eyes, the only units that can’t be broken apart seem to be families with underage children, where the children are dependent on the parents, and so, a certain hierarchy is kept up out of necessity.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
During most of my childhood I believed in Catholicism, but at 18 I started practicing Hinduism. I was happy with Hinduism for years. This year I bought a greeting card showing Vishnu and Lakshmi wearing Santa Claus caps, featuring the line "We Vishnu a Merry Christmas" and put it on my altar. I thought it would be funny but it had an unexpected effect on me. I became aware that to my knowledge Vishnu and Lakshmi never had kids together. Vishnu incarnates in his avatars, and there is Janmashtami, Krishna's birthday, but I started missing the religious "message" of Christmas. I had never expected that I would. On the other hand, a committed Christian can't "cherrypick" the aspects of Jesus. If you're a serious Christian you have to take the whole package, the crucified martyr together with the cute little baby in the manger. I don't feel like taking up Christianity again because in my eyes Christianity essentially fails to give a satisfying answer to the question "Why we suffer" (I spent my afternoon reading on that). The spectrum of answers goes from "offering your suffering to God" which to me feels very similar to the concept of taking somebody else's negative karma and, it and ends in describing an unpredictable, erratic god who hides himself for no reason. I always felt that Krishna, though not a god of my culture, is described as overall more friendly and more balanced than the god described in the of the Bible. I am fine with this 364 days of the year, but this Christmas it's weird. Maybe it is just nostalgia, but if I decided reconverting to Christianity the first act I'd have to do would be discarding all of my Hinduism books, pictures and statues I collected over the years. Apart from the fact that these objects have a certain material value, I think it would be sort of destabilizing to to this as they are a part of my life and I treat them respectfully. Maybe I shouldn't take up a religion if I can't respect its First Commandment. You can be a murderer and still be a Christian but you can't be a Christian / Catholic if you believe in "gods" not sanctioned by the Church. There are probably more Catholic saints than Hindu gods, one for every thinkable problem, disease or life situation under the sun. Apart from this, New Age followers worship their own versions of Jesus, Mary and the angels, so probably I just shouldn't worry so much.

One myth is as good as the next.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The poison of sectarianism

Today, accepting an invitation, I paid a visit to the fringe of the fringe. A Gaudiya Vaishnava couple apparently disappointed with the big evil ISKCON corporation over issues of authority has started to offer “mantra meditation” meetings of their own, borrowing heavily from the ISKCON formula. They broke up the chronological order of the songs sung during ISKCON programs (it's usually the same every week), adding some others, including Shiva mantras, into the blend. If I still were Catholic, for me, it would probably be an equivalent to messing up the order of the Mass and adding things that don’t belong there (I guess I just like patterns), but as it is an expression of Hinduism, it might probably wiser to take an attitude of “live and let live” and be happy about yet another opportunity where kirtan is sung and one more place where prasadam is served. I also met another Gaudiya Vaishnava couple at odds with ISKCON, who had traveled a long way likely for being with the other “righteous” couple. The Hare Krishna world is small, and in a country with few Hindu temples, you cannot just switch from one temple congregation to the next. As for a denomination with already few followers, the poison of sectarianism splits them into smaller and smaller units. In my eyes, the only units that can’t be broken apart seem to be families with underage children, where the children are dependent on the parents, and so, a certain hierarchy is kept up out of necessity.

I much prefer the open style non-congregational South temples where God is the focus, and people are really secondary. It's a rare day in July that anyone discusses philosophy at the temple I attend. Everybody comes, does their personal thing with God, sticks around for aarti or not, buys an archana or not, and is just incredibly individual. The few times I've entered any kind of philosophy it's been just ... "Wow!" from my end pertaining to the differences between how I see it and they see it. Very little talking, except amongst family groups themselves.

No kirtan, no discourses ... although there is a semi-organised 15 minute bhajan session every Sunday, I think. I don't normally go Sundays.This winter it's been Monday Wednesday Friday, in the mornings.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
My Kali worship
I‘ve probably committed the gravest offense in Prabhupada’s universe and turned into an occasional Kali Ma worshiper. Got myself a nice Kali statue directly from India (so much for reducing air-traffic related CO2 emissions), with the right upper hand in a blessing posture and the right foot forward. I read that this form of Kali is allegedly considered more gentle than the one with a left hand/left foot dominance. It's kind of funny how the mind can react to such details, with the irony that I am left-handed.
I read a bit by David Kinsley, who claims that Kali worship is very popular in Bengal, and I suppose that the worship of the Goddess is the hidden secret looming behind the gopis, who – at least according to Prabhupada - are bloodless and “self”less creatures, existing only to worship the almighty male. One might probably interpret these stories as wish-fulfillment or as an obstacle, depending on whether you’re a man or a woman. The Caitanya Caritamrta mentions an incident of utensils for worshiping the Goddess including red sindura powder placed at the door of one of Chaitanya's followers, and the guy in question was so disgusted by the utensils that he wouldn’t even touch them. Instead, he called a sweeper to have them removed.
It takes courage to face Kali. I still believe in Krishna, but there’s something about Kali worship that goes down to my guts, and it feels good.
 
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