Book Of Revelation In Jewish Context (rev 1:4-7)

URAVIP2ME said:

As with KJV Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned.
The 'LORD' in all Upper-Case letters stands for the Tetragrammaton.
The 'Lord' in some lower-case letters stands for the Lord Jesus, and the Tetragrammaton never applies.
The heavenly resurrected-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.

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URAVIP2ME said:

Remember: The apocryphal books simply exclude themselves being out of harmony with the '66' Bible books.

The ' 66' books of Bible canon I find have corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages which show the internal harmony among the Bible writers.

ALL of John's writings are before the end of the 1st century and are in harmony with the rest.

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sooda said:

While the book of Revelation is an apocalypse when it comes to its genre, it is not a pure apocalypse (1) in that it is set in the context of a letter. We can see this clearly in the following verses. The Book of Revelation is not really a book; it is in fact a letter addressed to churches in the province of Asia. By its own witness, this apocalyptic letter also contains prophecy (Rev. 1:3, 22:7).

It is common to think of prophecy as predictions, but to an Israelite mind prophecy is primarily a proclamation of previously known truth, a call to return and not to forget the important matters. Thus, the Book of Revelation can be called an apocalyptic letter containing prophecy, combining at least three genres in one document (apocalyptic, epistolary and prophetic).

While it is not possible to say with full confidence who exactly was this John who wrote Revelation, it is clear that his identity was known to the seven historic churches mentioned in the letter. The author must have been authoritative enough to be accepted since the Revelation of John was not the only apocalypse at that time. However, the authorship of John the Apostle is early and strongly attested.

Several 2nd century congregational leaders (such as Melito, bishop of Sardis (c. 165CE) (2) and Irenaeus of Smyrna (c. 180 CE), (3) whose churches were among the original recipients of the letter of Revelation (4)) explicitly mention that the letter was believed to be from John the Apostle.

The case for Johaninne authorship of Revelation ironically is stronger than that of the Gospel of John.

The most significant argument in favor of another author (meaning that the author of the fourth gospel and Revelation is not the same person) is that the Greek of Revelation is significantly lower in quality than the Greek of the Gospel of John. This, however, could be easily resolved by positing that John used a scribe for the composition of the Gospel (as did Paul (5) among many others in Roman antiquity), but that no scribe was available to him as he composed the book of Revelation since it was written when he was under house arrest on the Island of Patmos. In other words, he was left with his own limited Greek language skills.

All seven churches mentioned in the letter are located within the system of Ancient Roman roads. It was therefore actually possible for the letter to make a full circle of all the locations after it was originally delivered and be read in the individual congregations.

Not all known congregations in Asia were addressed (for example, the congregation at Colossae). The letter is tied to the importance of the number seven, pointing to the symbolic nature of the churches. It is likely that the seven actual historic congregations symbolize all the churches existent at the time of John and even beyond that historical setting.

Grace and peace to you from “he who is,” and who was, and who is still to come, …

The passage is an allusion to Ex. 3:14 according to the Greek language Septuagint version where God refers to himself as “he who is” (ὁ ὤν). The Greek is translated from the divine self-description in Hebrew אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (I am who I am). John uses the same wording only in this place in Greek (6). God’s unpronounceable name YHWH is believed to be connected to the verb “to be” in Hebrew. It is a composite of past, present and future aspects all present in one word, “who is and the one who was, and who will be.” The hint is deliberate.

(I have broken the paragraphs up for easier reading)

continued

https://blog.israelbiblicalstudies....ewish-context-rev-14-7-dr-eli-lizorkin-eyzen/

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URAVIP2ME said:

I wonder why you say forgeries

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wizanda said:

Posted an older summary on the end of Revelation as a forgery, could possibly go into even more detail line by line now.

In my opinion.

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sooda said:

While the book of Revelation is an apocalypse when it comes to its genre, it is not a pure apocalypse (1) in that it is set in the context of a letter. We can see this clearly in the following verses. The Book of Revelation is not really a book; it is in fact a letter addressed to churches in the province of Asia. By its own witness, this apocalyptic letter also contains prophecy (Rev. 1:3, 22:7).

It is common to think of prophecy as predictions, but to an Israelite mind prophecy is primarily a proclamation of previously known truth, a call to return and not to forget the important matters. Thus, the Book of Revelation can be called an apocalyptic letter containing prophecy, combining at least three genres in one document (apocalyptic, epistolary and prophetic).

While it is not possible to say with full confidence who exactly was this John who wrote Revelation, it is clear that his identity was known to the seven historic churches mentioned in the letter. The author must have been authoritative enough to be accepted since the Revelation of John was not the only apocalypse at that time. However, the authorship of John the Apostle is early and strongly attested.

Several 2nd century congregational leaders (such as Melito, bishop of Sardis (c. 165CE) (2) and Irenaeus of Smyrna (c. 180 CE), (3) whose churches were among the original recipients of the letter of Revelation (4)) explicitly mention that the letter was believed to be from John the Apostle.

The case for Johaninne authorship of Revelation ironically is stronger than that of the Gospel of John.

The most significant argument in favor of another author (meaning that the author of the fourth gospel and Revelation is not the same person) is that the Greek of Revelation is significantly lower in quality than the Greek of the Gospel of John. This, however, could be easily resolved by positing that John used a scribe for the composition of the Gospel (as did Paul (5) among many others in Roman antiquity), but that no scribe was available to him as he composed the book of Revelation since it was written when he was under house arrest on the Island of Patmos. In other words, he was left with his own limited Greek language skills.

All seven churches mentioned in the letter are located within the system of Ancient Roman roads. It was therefore actually possible for the letter to make a full circle of all the locations after it was originally delivered and be read in the individual congregations.

Not all known congregations in Asia were addressed (for example, the congregation at Colossae). The letter is tied to the importance of the number seven, pointing to the symbolic nature of the churches. It is likely that the seven actual historic congregations symbolize all the churches existent at the time of John and even beyond that historical setting.

Grace and peace to you from “he who is,” and who was, and who is still to come, …

The passage is an allusion to Ex. 3:14 according to the Greek language Septuagint version where God refers to himself as “he who is” (ὁ ὤν). The Greek is translated from the divine self-description in Hebrew אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה (I am who I am). John uses the same wording only in this place in Greek (6). God’s unpronounceable name YHWH is believed to be connected to the verb “to be” in Hebrew. It is a composite of past, present and future aspects all present in one word, “who is and the one who was, and who will be.” The hint is deliberate.

(I have broken the paragraphs up for easier reading)

continued

https://blog.israelbiblicalstudies....ewish-context-rev-14-7-dr-eli-lizorkin-eyzen/

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Faithofchristian said:

My question is, As to how do you come by the Revelation of John
When in fact the book of Revelation is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:1---"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

So how is it you say the Revelation of John

When in fact by the verse above it clearly states The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

You make it quite obvious that your adding and deleting from the book of Revelation.

You do know there is a strict warning not to add unto or delete from the book of Revelation
And your doing both.

Revelation 22:18-19,
18--"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book"

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book"

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sooda said:

The Bible stories have been redacted and amended many, many times. Isn't your position a bit silly?

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Faithofchristian said:

Nope not at all, Just your position is alot silly as usual
Always saying things that doesn't line up to anything, except your philosophy.

As there is no where in the book of Revelation that states the Revelation of John.
You know while were talking, how is it that you are against the Rapture Theory, but yet go by the NIV which supports the Rapture Theory,
Can you explain how is that to works
How is it that people can be against something, but yet be found supporting the very thing that supports what their against.

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sooda said:

The different versions of Genesis from Israel and Judea were cobbled together during the time of King Omri when he was trying to reunite the north and south.

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Faithofchristian said:

Here you go again, off on another book of the Bible, when in fact the subject that we were talking about was the book of Revelation and the book of Genesis or any other book of the Bible.

Maybe if stayed with Revelation and not jump from one book to another.

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sooda said:

Fair enough.. Do you understand all the symbolism in Revelation?

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Faithofchristian said:

I sure do,
Do you have any idea who the locust and scorpion army represents. Revelation 9:3-5,

Do you understand who the king of the bottomless pit is that Christ Jesus foretold about in Revelation 9:11

According to what Christ Jesus given in his book of Revelation, What caused there to be silence in heaven, Revelation 8:1

According to what Christ Jesus given in his book of Revelation 9:7-8, what does it mean, the shapes of the Locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle,
And they had hair as the hair of women.
What does this all mean?

Do you understand who the Mother of Harlots is, in Revelation 17 that Christ Jesus foretold about, what does she represents?

Notice that in Mark 13:20--"And except that the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh
Should be saved: But for the elects sake, Whom the Lord has chosen, He has shortened the days"

Now where in Revelation did Christ Jesus foretold exactly how many days did he shortened the days of the tribulation to?

If you notice in Mark 13:11, Christ Jesus saying--"But whatsoever shall be given you
in that hour"
Now where in Revelation did Christ Jesus foretold what the hour is and when it will take happen?
If notice in Mark 13:14 where in Revelation did Christ Jesus foretold when the abomination of desolation would happen.

Where in Revelation did Christ Jesus give the last Prophecy that will happen, that when this last prophecy happens the tribulation is over and then Christ Jesus returns.
Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy happens first that brings the end of the tribulation.

In Mark 13:17 Christ Jesus speaking, saying "But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days"

According to what Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation when does this of
Mark 13:14 --"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains"
Where in Revelation did Christ Jesus foretold when this will take place?

Let's see if you know all these things, that Christ Jesus foretold all about in his book of Revelation.
So when does these things take place according to what Christ Jesus given in his book of Revelation ?

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sooda said:

The locust army are the Roman legions that laid siege for 5 months in 70 AD.

The king of the bottomless pit ( Rev. 9:11) is the Roman emperor, specifically, Nero. Nero looses the abomination of desolation in the form of the Roman legions to devastate Palestine with sword and famine, portrayed here by the invasion of the locust army.

Both locusts and human armies advance swiftly.

Basically Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation, flee to the mountains to avoid the tribulation... and they did.. the fled the city for Pella over in what is now Jordan.

Babylon is the mother of harlots and Israel is the whore of Babylon.

Why do you link the tribulation which is in the distant past.. It was over in 70 AD with the second coming?

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Faithofchristian said:

Nope not at all, Just your position is alot silly as usual
Always saying things that doesn't line up to anything, except your philosophy.

As there is no where in the book of Revelation that states the Revelation of John.
You know while were talking, how is it that you are against the Rapture Theory, but yet go by the NIV which supports the Rapture Theory,
Can you explain how is that to works
How is it that people can be against something, but yet be found supporting the very thing that supports what their against.

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Faithofchristian said:

Now that's not only totally amazing, But doesn't even come close to what Christ Jesus given in His book of Revelation.

But then this what happens when people like yourself listen to man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus in his book of Revelation.

Christ Jesus given his book of Revelation for the end times last generation, And has nothing period to do with the pass, but with the future which is future from us

People keep referring to pass tents, when the book of Revelation it future tents and not pass tents.

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Faithofchristian said:

Now that's not only totally amazing, But doesn't even come close to what Christ Jesus given in His book of Revelation.

But then this what happens when people like yourself listen to man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus in his book of Revelation.

Christ Jesus given his book of Revelation for the end times last generation, And has nothing period to do with the pass, but with the future which is future from us

People keep referring to pass tents, when the book of Revelation it future tents and not pass tents.

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sooda said:

The word is TENSE... not tents.

Matthew 24:34 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. …

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Faithofchristian said:

Now as for what you said about, the king of the bottomless pit of Rev 9:11, As being the Roman emperor

Can you show as to where Christ Jesus said the king of the bottomless pit as being the Roman emperor in Revelation.
Where exactly is that written at in Revelation that Christ Jesus saying the king of the bottomless pit as being the Roman emperor.

As I said, that Christ foretold who the king of the bottomless pit is,
But as it is, you keep running to man's teachings instead of the teachings of Christ Jesus.
So again I will ask, in everything that you given, can you show in the book of Revelation where Christ Jesus is found in saying what your saying.

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sooda said:

The king over the army is the angel of the bottomless pit, the emperor Nero.

Revelation uses multiple metaphors to describe the same thing.. it repeats.

The place to start it with what it says about who the letter is to and when it will take place. It was written for the new Christians of the first century not to some people in the remote future.

There are places that just study the symbolism used..

Futurism is the work of men..

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