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Jesus as a Jew...

sooda

Veteran Member
Post # 77: Alexander Helios died young... He didn't father any children.

Post # 78: By then her brothers, Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus, had disappeared from all known historical records and are PRESUMED to have died, POSSIBLY from illness or assassination.

Post # 79: POSSIBLY died between 29 and 25. No marriages or children are known.

You nor your chosen scholarship mates from which you cut and paste, haven't got a clue, Have you?

Now let me repeat your post # 77 Grandma....."Alexander Helios died young... He didn't father any children."

Like I said Grandma, 'YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A FLAMIN CLUE.

There is no evidence that Alexander Helios lived beyond the age of 14. I have noticed how you parade your claims all over the net and insult everyone who disagrees with you.
How many virgin births listed in the Bible? | Debate.org
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I think it helps to have some background and an understanding of Israel's history to see why Jesus had to come and why he needed to be Jewish.

It basically stems from a promise to one of the most faithful of God's earthly servants......Abraham. That promise to Abraham was that through his seed, all nations would be blessed.

Genesis 2:18....
"And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves because you have listened to my voice.’”

God multiplied Abraham's descendants and they became a great nation numerically, but as far as their record of faithful adherence to God's commands.....well, that's another story.

The apostle Paul identifies Jesus as that "seed".
Galatians 3:16...
"Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “and to your descendants,” in the sense of many. Rather, it says, “and to your offspring,” in the sense of one, who is Christ."

Despite Israel's checkered history, God was true to his promise and when the time came for his Messiah to put in an appearance, the nation of Israel had gone completely off the rails, spiritually speaking. Jesus came to take up his mission by approaching John the Baptist, who at first protested that he was not worthy of the task....but Jesus insisted and he was baptized in the Jordan River and immediately received God's holy spirit.

After 40 days in the wilderness communing with his Father and preparing for his difficult assignment, he then chose his 12 apostles....mostly humble fishermen. He trained them to take over the work he started because he knew that his mission would not be a long one....but there was huge task ahead.



Owing to his promise to Abraham, Jesus only preached to "the lost sheep of the House of Israel". He was not sent to the Jewish Leaders, whom he deemed to be incorrigible, (Matthew 23) but to the lost sheep that those shepherds had neglected.

This is why Jesus was reluctant to preach to anyone but Jews during his ministry. They, as Abraham's descendants had first dibs for positions in God's Kingdom, thought to be an earthly arrangement, reestablishing Israel as an independent nation once again. They did not discern the spiritual nature of the Kingdom until after Jesus died and was resurrected and returned to heaven. At Pentecost they received their anointing for life in heaven and also received the gift of holy spirit.

Once it became obvious that the Jews were not going to make up the full number of those going to heaven, God opened up the opportunity for Gentiles to also partake of holy spirit and accept Jesus as their savior too.
It was always going to involve them as God's promise to Abraham indicated..."ALL nations would be blessed" by the seed that he sent into the world.

Peter was told to go to the home of Cornelius, the first Gentile convert to Christianity. Peter was given a vision of unclean animals and told to slaughter and eat them. Peter was horrified at such a suggestion, but three times it was repeated and after his call to baptize Cornelius and his family, Peter knew what the vision was all about. He was given the keys of the Kingdom and used them to open the way for Gentiles to gain salvation along with faithful ones of the nation of Israel. He was not to call unclean, the things that God had cleansed.




Humans will never be "all they can be" until sin is removed completely and permanently. The 1,000 year reign of God's Kingdom with Jesus at the helm, will accomplish that. Opening up the way to return to God's first purpose in Eden. Jesus came to give us back what Adam and his wife took from us......everlasting life in paradise on earth. The heavenly Kingdom will rule over earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4)

That makes sense to me.....

Your version of events and motives is interesting.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
When the Lord Jesus preached about God, he preached about the new covenant
He established his church.
Delegated the task of preaching and baptizing to his apostles
He was taken up to heaven
The first century church was persecuted but it grew
From Jerusalem, the church spread to the Gentile lands
As it is being persecuted, false prophets and teachers began to apostatize the church
The apostles died, and after 10 or so years, the Mother of Harlots emerged
Apostasy was complete

These scenario was foretold and expected by the Lord Jesus Christ
during his ministry on earth

But his church did not saw the end
the saga isn't over
Because Jesus said it isn't over
until the fat lady sings.

John 10:9-16 New International Version (NIV)
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

View attachment 28546

Christ sheep which is not part of the first century church.

Not going to argue with you. Go your way in peace.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Yes but Not the Jesus of the Bible. Almost but not quite.

They confess the Torah, Psalms and Gospels but largely don't read those

In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised.

However they do believe he was sinless virgin born Messiah and coming again
"In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised." Unquote

We Muslims specifically Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim believe in Jesus, Mary, Moses, Adam and Abraham; as also other messengers/prophets of G-d (Bahaullah excluded) and their life accounts because Quran mentions them, strictly as mentioned by Quran. And other narratives (like OT-Torah or NT-Bible and Hadith,Shia or Sunni or any other traditions/sayings) that don't contradict with Quran.

"In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised."

Because that mars the personality and Character of Jesus, making him an imperfect man and god Jesus never was. We cannot, emphasis cannot, believe in such an imperfect god as depicted in NT Bible, please.

Sorry, no disrespect intended to anybody or anybody's faith. Everybody is entitled to believe in any faith/religion with reason or absolute no reason. They must to continue to believe, as they want and wish to.

Right, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I know that there were thirteen tribes of Israel and Levi was one such tribe.

I also know that in post # 53, you wrote; "First you need to choose whether you want Mary to be a Priest or an Israelite. Then you can decide which genealogy is the right one."

Mary is the mother of Jesus and there is only one genealogy in the bible of Jesus the son of Mary.

I also know that in post 57, you wrote; "The point I was trying to make is that in one comment you have her descending from the Priestly line and in another from the Judahite line."

I have Mary the mother of Jesus, and grand daughter to Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC as a descendant, through her father's line of Nathan the prophet, according to the only genealogy of Jesus the son of Mary as recorded in Luke 3:23..

Alexander Helios=Heli, the father of both Mary and Joseph and the biological grand-father of Jesus, according to the genealogy of Jesus as recorded in Luke, was a descendant of Nathan the prophet who was the biological son of Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite.

Uriah became a member of the tribe of Levi by his marriage to Bathsheba the daughter of Ammiel, the son of Oded-Edom, who was a descendant of Moses from the house of Levi, by his second wife Jepunniah, an Ethiopian woman, [See Numbers 12: 1; KJV] who was the widow of a man from the tribe of Judah, and the mother of Caleb, who, at the age of forty, became the adopted son of Moses, and Jepunniah was the daughter of Hobab the Kennite, one of the two fathers-in-law to Moses, [See Judges 4: 11.]

The Talmud states, "Whoever brings up an orphan in his home is regarded...as though the child had been born to him." (Sanhedrin 119b).” In other words, the adopted child is to be treated as a child born to the father of that house, which means, that Heli and his descendants, who were born from the genetic line of Nathan ‘the prophet,’ who was the adopted son of King David, were legitimate heirs to King David, but not to the throne of Israel, as the prophesied Messiah had to come through the genetic line of Solomon.

Heli and his descendants only became heirs to the throne of David, through Nathan the adopted son of King David, when Naria, a descendant of Nathan, married Tamar, a female descendant of King Solomon, who bore to Naria a son by the name “Salathiel.” After the death of Naria, Tamar was taken to wife by King Jehoiachin, whose only son with Tamar, was Zedekiah who died prematurely in Childhood.

According to Torah law, Nathan the adopted son of King David and his descendants, were legitimate heirs of King David, but not in the ancestral line of the promised Messiah, who was to be born of the seed of Solomon, until Naria the descendant of Nathan coupled with Tamah the descendant of Solomon, to produce Salathiel the ancestor of Jesus, who has been made High Priest (From the tribe of Levi=Nathan) and King (From the tribe of Judah=Solomon) in the order of Melchizedek.

David Hughes the noted Genealogist of the Ancient World Lineages, states that King Jeconiah’s only son, with Queen Tamar, ‘Prince Zedekiah,’ died prematurely in childhood, and in 586 BCE King Zedekiah, the last king of Israel, whose original name Mattaniah, was the son of Josiah and the uncle of Jehoiachin. King Zedekiah/Mattaniah, was taken prisoner and his sons were executed in front of him, after which, his eyes were gouged out, and there in Babylon, he remained blinded in exile for the rest of his life and it appeared that the entire royal lineage of King David through God’s chosen son, Solomon, had been exterminated.

With all the known direct lineages of male heirs to the lineage of King Solomon the son of King David and Bathsheba now extinct, Queen Tamar II became the dynastic heiress preserving not only the Lineage of King Solomon, but also became the inter-dynastic link, or the vital crossover heiress merging the non-royal Nathan lineage with the royal lineages of King Solomon. With the addition of Tamar representing the mainline descendants of King David, we now can understand the linkage between the two prime royal and non-royal lineages to the ancestry of the Jewish Messiah Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph the son of Alexander Helios a descendant of Nathan).

Jesus carried in his genes the potent fusion of Davidian and Zadokian bloodlines. He carried the potent bloodline of the royal mantle as a Priest-King of Israel and the messianic mantle as the Maschiach Yisra’el (Messiah of Israel) of the House of David.

Hebrew 5: 10; “And God declared him (Jesus) to be high priest according to the priestly order of Melchizedek.” Melchizedek held the titles of both King and high priest. Hebrew 5: 5; “In the same way, Christ did not take upon himself the honor of being high priest. Instead, God said to him, ‘You are my Son; TODAY I have become your Father.’”
"I know that there were thirteen tribes of Israel and Levi was one such tribe."

Please name them as Jacob/Israel had only twelve sons. Where does come another one to make them thirteen, please:

Jacob's twelve sons, named in Genesis, were Reuben, Simeon,Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun,Joseph, and Benjamin. His only daughter mentioned in Genesis is Dinah. The twelve sons became the progenitors of the "Tribes of Israel".
Jacob - Wikipedia
Jacob - Wikipedia

Regards
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence that Alexander Helios lived beyond the age of 14. I have noticed how you parade your claims all over the net and insult everyone who disagrees with you.
How many virgin births listed in the Bible? | Debate.org

In post # 77, You make a statement as if it is an absolute fact; “Alexander Helios died young…. He didn’t father any children.

Then, like a reed blowing in the wind, in your very next post, you cast doubt on your supposed fact, by saying in your post # 78; Alexander Helios and Philadelphus, had disappeared from all known historical records and are PRESUMED to have died, POSSIBLY from illness or assassination.

IF, and I repeat ‘IF’ he had died, and IMO and that of many others, he did not die until he was eliminated by the cruel and tyrannical King Herod the Great as a threat to his throne , in 13 B.C. But ‘IF’ he had died as you PRESUME, what makes you think that it was POSSIBLY from illness or assassination, he could have POSSIBLY had an accident and fell over a cliff. You haven’t got a clue, as to whether he died or how he died.

There is no historical record, apart from the scriptures, that Philadelphus/Philip of Bethsaida, the son of Herod the Great (A lifelong friend of Mark Antony) and his young Jewess wife, named ‘Cleopatra,’ (Cleopatra, is a Macedonian name) who disappears from the pages of history, in the year of the death of Jesus, actually died in that year, but it is PRESUMED by the historian who reject the scriptures, that he Did die in that year.

Sooda wrote……. Post # 79: POSSIBLY died between 29 and 25. No marriages or children are known.

The Anointed…… IMO, Prince Alexander Helios III, the Grandfather of Jesus, was the adopted son of the future Maccabee Queen Alexandra II, who at this time was known by her Jewish name, Esther of Jerusalem. Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel

His 1st wife, Esther of Jerusalem, became the mother of Heli ben Mattat or Prince Alexander Helios III, who became the father of Mary the mother of Jesus. Esther of Jerusalem can be identified as the future Maccabee Queen known by her Greek name as Queen Alexandra II, who was the great grandmother of Yeshua (Jesus).Jan 18, 2017

It is said that after the death of her father, Alexander Helios=Heli, “who was a father of renowned,” the seven-year-old Mary [who is believed to be the grand-daughter of Mark Antony] was removed from her mother and taken north into the land of Galilee, where she was raised under the protection of the Jewish zealots whose aim it was, to throw off the yoke of Roman rule and establish a descendant of King David, back on the throne of Israel.

There are those who believe that the union between Mary, the daughter of Alexander Helios, with her half-brother Joseph the son of Heli, from which union the child Jesus was born, was arranged by the Zealots.

It would appear that Mary’s aunty Elizabeth, the sister to Hanna the mother of Mary, was also a part of this conspiracy. After the Greek Messenger (Gabriel is the spiritual head of the Greeks) had told Mary that she was to become the mother of a son, who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ and told her that her aged aunty was already six months pregnant, Mary, undoubtedly chaperoned by her zealot guardians, packed her gear and traveled down to a town in the hill country that once belonged to the lost tribe of Benjamin, where many friends and members of the family had gathered to rejoice in the fact that a woman of her age could still become pregnant.

As soon as Mary walked through the door of her aunties house, Elizabeth cried out in Luke 1: 45; “Blessed are you to believe that the Lord’s message to you will come true.”

Mary stayed in the house of her aunty for three months, after which she was found to be pregnant to her half-brother ‘Joseph,’ the son of her father, ’Alexander Helios III.’

The question must now be asked; “How in heavens name did Elizabeth know that the messenger had told Mary while she was still in Nazareth, that she would conceive and bear a son who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ unless she was a part of the conspiracy.

But because Joseph the son of Alexander Helios and any male offspring of his, would have been seen as a threat to the throne of Herod the Great, as was his father, the biological father of Jesus had to remain hidden, and for the safety of the child, the pregnant Mary, was married off to Joseph the son of Jacob, a descendant of the cursed genetic line of King Jehoiachin, who at that time lived in Nazareth, the zealot commune.

Herod’s chief advisers, would not have seen Jesus, who they believed was the son of Joseph ben Jacob as a threat to the throne of Herod, because Mary, unbeknown to the Jewish authorities was already pregnant to her half-brother “Joseph the son of Alexander Helios,” and was taken to wife by Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah.

This Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and who was only the step-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Solomon through the cursed line of Jehoiachin, of whom we read in Jeremiah 22: 30; “This man is condemned to lose his children, to be a man who will never succeed. He will have no descendants who will rule in Judah as David’s successor. I, the Lord, have spoken.”

This rules out the hope of any son of Joseph ben Jacob ever sitting on the throne of David, whereas Jesus the son of Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios was a legitimate successor to that throne.

BTW, thanks for the link which reveals that The Anointed, is also ‘Gentorev’ on another forum, and “The Tongue,’ on still another forum, and also “The S-word,’ on yet another forum.

The S-word of God. The sharp two edged Tongue, that cuts all the way through to the division of the Soul and the spirit.

Elijah, who was carried up to stand by Enoch’s side
Stood by the brook at Kishon where the priests of Baal all died
It was He, who gave the order and the waters all ran red
As fifty and eight hundred more, false prophets all fell dead.
Will you fight the war ‘gainst ignorance, the war that will be won
By those who wield the S-word of God, the sharp two edge-ed Tongue….The Anointed.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
"I know that there were thirteen tribes of Israel and Levi was one such tribe."

Please name them as Jacob/Israel had only twelve sons. Where does come another one to make them thirteen, please:

Jacob's twelve sons, named in Genesis, were Reuben, Simeon,Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun,Joseph, and Benjamin. His only daughter mentioned in Genesis is Dinah. The twelve sons became the progenitors of the "Tribes of Israel".
Jacob - Wikipedia
Jacob - Wikipedia

Regards

Genesis 48: 5; Jacob continued; “Joseph, your two sons, who were born to you in Egypt before I came here belong to me: Ephraim and Manasseh are as much my sons as Reuben and Simeon.”
Jacob, adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own sons, thereby dividing Joseph into two tribes, making the thirteen tribes of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Zebulun Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin.
The 144,000 chosen ones recorded in Rev 7: 5-8, which are chosen from 12 of the thirteen tribes of Israel, excludes the tribe of Dan.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
"In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised." Unquote

We Muslims specifically Ahmadiyya peaceful Muslim believe in Jesus, Mary, Moses, Adam and Abraham; as also other messengers/prophets of G-d (Bahaullah excluded) and their life accounts because Quran mentions them, strictly as mentioned by Quran. And other narratives (like OT-Torah or NT-Bible and Hadith,Shia or Sunni or any other traditions/sayings) that don't contradict with Quran.

"In that view Jesus is not fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised."

Because that mars the personality and Character of Jesus, making him an imperfect man and god Jesus never was. We cannot, emphasis cannot, believe in such an imperfect god as depicted in NT Bible, please.

Sorry, no disrespect intended to anybody or anybody's faith. Everybody is entitled to believe in any faith/religion with reason or absolute no reason. They must to continue to believe, as they want and wish to.

Right, please?

Regards

Right, and I respect people trying to follow their best understanding of the truth.

However the Jesus of the Koran and the Jesus of the Bible have some stunning things in common (virgin born, sinless, Messiah, a prophet) and some significant differences as well. (son of God, died for sins, rose from the dead)
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Right, and I respect people trying to follow their best understanding of the truth.

However the Jesus of the Koran and the Jesus of the Bible have some stunning things in common (virgin born, sinless, Messiah, a prophet) and some significant differences as well. (son of God, died for sins, rose from the dead)

The Jesus of the bible is not virgin born.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
In post # 77, You make a statement as if it is an absolute fact; “Alexander Helios died young…. He didn’t father any children.

Then, like a reed blowing in the wind, in your very next post, you cast doubt on your supposed fact, by saying in your post # 78; Alexander Helios and Philadelphus, had disappeared from all known historical records and are PRESUMED to have died, POSSIBLY from illness or assassination.

IF, and I repeat ‘IF’ he had died, and IMO and that of many others, he did not die until he was eliminated by the cruel and tyrannical King Herod the Great as a threat to his throne , in 13 B.C. But ‘IF’ he had died as you PRESUME, what makes you think that it was POSSIBLY from illness or assassination, he could have POSSIBLY had an accident and fell over a cliff. You haven’t got a clue, as to whether he died or how he died.

There is no historical record, apart from the scriptures, that Philadelphus/Philip of Bethsaida, the son of Herod the Great (A lifelong friend of Mark Antony) and his young Jewess wife, named ‘Cleopatra,’ (Cleopatra, is a Macedonian name) who disappears from the pages of history, in the year of the death of Jesus, actually died in that year, but it is PRESUMED by the historian who reject the scriptures, that he Did die in that year.

Sooda wrote……. Post # 79: POSSIBLY died between 29 and 25. No marriages or children are known.

The Anointed…… IMO, Prince Alexander Helios III, the Grandfather of Jesus, was the adopted son of the future Maccabee Queen Alexandra II, who at this time was known by her Jewish name, Esther of Jerusalem. Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel

His 1st wife, Esther of Jerusalem, became the mother of Heli ben Mattat or Prince Alexander Helios III, who became the father of Mary the mother of Jesus. Esther of Jerusalem can be identified as the future Maccabee Queen known by her Greek name as Queen Alexandra II, who was the great grandmother of Yeshua (Jesus).Jan 18, 2017

It is said that after the death of her father, Alexander Helios=Heli, “who was a father of renowned,” the seven-year-old Mary [who is believed to be the grand-daughter of Mark Antony] was removed from her mother and taken north into the land of Galilee, where she was raised under the protection of the Jewish zealots whose aim it was, to throw off the yoke of Roman rule and establish a descendant of King David, back on the throne of Israel.

There are those who believe that the union between Mary, the daughter of Alexander Helios, with her half-brother Joseph the son of Heli, from which union the child Jesus was born, was arranged by the Zealots.

It would appear that Mary’s aunty Elizabeth, the sister to Hanna the mother of Mary, was also a part of this conspiracy. After the Greek Messenger (Gabriel is the spiritual head of the Greeks) had told Mary that she was to become the mother of a son, who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ and told her that her aged aunty was already six months pregnant, Mary, undoubtedly chaperoned by her zealot guardians, packed her gear and traveled down to a town in the hill country that once belonged to the lost tribe of Benjamin, where many friends and members of the family had gathered to rejoice in the fact that a woman of her age could still become pregnant.

As soon as Mary walked through the door of her aunties house, Elizabeth cried out in Luke 1: 45; “Blessed are you to believe that the Lord’s message to you will come true.”

Mary stayed in the house of her aunty for three months, after which she was found to be pregnant to her half-brother ‘Joseph,’ the son of her father, ’Alexander Helios III.’

The question must now be asked; “How in heavens name did Elizabeth know that the messenger had told Mary while she was still in Nazareth, that she would conceive and bear a son who would inherit the throne of his ancestor ‘King David,’ unless she was a part of the conspiracy.

But because Joseph the son of Alexander Helios and any male offspring of his, would have been seen as a threat to the throne of Herod the Great, as was his father, the biological father of Jesus had to remain hidden, and for the safety of the child, the pregnant Mary, was married off to Joseph the son of Jacob, a descendant of the cursed genetic line of King Jehoiachin, who at that time lived in Nazareth, the zealot commune.

Herod’s chief advisers, would not have seen Jesus, who they believed was the son of Joseph ben Jacob as a threat to the throne of Herod, because Mary, unbeknown to the Jewish authorities was already pregnant to her half-brother “Joseph the son of Alexander Helios,” and was taken to wife by Joseph the son of Jacob from the tribe of Judah.

This Joseph ben Jacob, who married the already pregnant Mary and who was only the step-father of Jesus, was a descendant of Solomon through the cursed line of Jehoiachin, of whom we read in Jeremiah 22: 30; “This man is condemned to lose his children, to be a man who will never succeed. He will have no descendants who will rule in Judah as David’s successor. I, the Lord, have spoken.”

This rules out the hope of any son of Joseph ben Jacob ever sitting on the throne of David, whereas Jesus the son of Joseph ben Heli=Alexander Helios was a legitimate successor to that throne.

BTW, thanks for the link which reveals that The Anointed, is also ‘Gentorev’ on another forum, and “The Tongue,’ on still another forum, and also “The S-word,’ on yet another forum.

The S-word of God. The sharp two edged Tongue, that cuts all the way through to the division of the Soul and the spirit.

Elijah, who was carried up to stand by Enoch’s side
Stood by the brook at Kishon where the priests of Baal all died
It was He, who gave the order and the waters all ran red
As fifty and eight hundred more, false prophets all fell dead.
Will you fight the war ‘gainst ignorance, the war that will be won
By those who wield the S-word of God, the sharp two edge-ed Tongue….The Anointed.

So prove Helios was the father of Mary. He was living in Rome as a young teen when his story ends.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
As Salaam Alaikum:

I had thought that the Shia and Sunni stories about Jesus (Isa PBUH) was the same ... that Judas was thought to be Jesus and was crucified, and Jesus slipped away. At least that was the story when I was first introduced to very radical Sunni Islam. Has this changed since 2005?

Ma Salaama


Wa Alaikum As-Salamu dear sister,

At least when it comes to the last days of Jesus on earth, both of the Shiites and the Sunnis are generally in agreement, as the story is generally mentioned in the Quran itself.

Also, short time ago we have posted here in RFs an important Hadith on the issue, which was shared by both, the Shiites and the Sunnis, in their Hadith books.

Here is the link to the related page:

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/was-jesus-crucified-or-not.217361/page-9#post-5959281

All the best

Dr. Saydan
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I have a very close friend who has been an Agnostic, and lately she has sort of been reading a few things related to Judaism. To her Christianity is a "cultural appropriation by a bunch of Gentiles so they could form their own bogus religion" to loosely quote.

I think in reading the bible and looking a bit at other ancient theology, a picture starts to form of it being a bit of an amalgam. A lot of other areas had stories about floods and especially giants as one example, and it's not exactly clear who started that trend. In this book by spinoza that I'm reading, he says that the book of job must have been originally gentile since it was translated into hebrew. By the time of the book of daniel some say there was lots of greek theology influencing the what was written, with the idea of heaven/hell and the end of the world sort of sneaking in. Then with christianity, I think early catholicism integrated plenty of paganism with sainted gods, holy days, and traditions.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Genesis 48: 5; Jacob continued; “Joseph, your two sons, who were born to you in Egypt before I came here belong to me: Ephraim and Manasseh are as much my sons as Reuben and Simeon.”
Jacob, adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own sons, thereby dividing Joseph into two tribes, making the thirteen tribes of Israel, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Zebulun Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin.
The 144,000 chosen ones recorded in Rev 7: 5-8, which are chosen from 12 of the thirteen tribes of Israel, excludes the tribe of Dan.
Adopted one does not make the true son.
Regards
 
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