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"How and Why Did Religion Evolve?"

Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I looked at this BBC article briefly and it quickly headed off into territory that did not interest me. Did religion evolve? Are the authors asking the right questions about the issue? They use several premises that seem meaningless to me. In one, they use Bonobos (a type of Ape) and the fact that they 'food share' as a type of religious conduct.

You are welcome to read the article. I think it will likely appeal most to the non religious. Still, I ask the question of where did religion come from? Were Adam and Eve religious? They knew and had talked to God, why would they need religion? Was Abraham religious? Was Moses or Job? What about David or Solomon? Remember that David had Jonothan who apparently did the religious book keeping.

Then eventually Jesus came along and we were given instruction. Looking back, was the contact that Moses had with God in the Desert religion?

As I think about it, perhaps I don't want religion. Perhaps what I want is to sit with God, be instructed by him, corrected for my mistakes, taught his plans, and know if there is a way for me to support that. To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
 
danieldemol

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ellen Brown said:
I looked at this BBC article briefly and it quickly headed off into territory that did not interest me. Did religion evolve? Are the authors asking the right questions about the issue? They use several premises that seem meaningless to me. In one, they use Bonobos (a type of Ape) and the fact that they 'food share' as a type of religious conduct.

You are welcome to read the article. I think it will likely appeal most to the non religious. Still, I ask the question of where did religion come from? Were Adam and Eve religious? They knew and had talked to God, why would they need religion? Was Abraham religious? Was Moses or Job? What about David or Solomon? Remember that David had Jonothan who apparently did the religious book keeping.

Then eventually Jesus came along and we were given instruction. Looking back, was the contact that Moses had with God in the Desert religion?

As I think about it, perhaps I don't want religion. Perhaps what I want is to sit with God, be instructed by him, corrected for my mistakes, taught his plans, and know if there is a way for me to support that. To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
Click to expand...
Did you intend to link to the article?
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Ellen Brown said:
I looked at this BBC article briefly and it quickly headed off into territory that did not interest me. Did religion evolve? Are the authors asking the right questions about the issue? They use several premises that seem meaningless to me. In one, they use Bonobos (a type of Ape) and the fact that they 'food share' as a type of religious conduct.

You are welcome to read the article. I think it will likely appeal most to the non religious. Still, I ask the question of where did religion come from? Were Adam and Eve religious? They knew and had talked to God, why would they need religion? Was Abraham religious? Was Moses or Job? What about David or Solomon? Remember that David had Jonothan who apparently did the religious book keeping.

Then eventually Jesus came along and we were given instruction. Looking back, was the contact that Moses had with God in the Desert religion?

As I think about it, perhaps I don't want religion. Perhaps what I want is to sit with God, be instructed by him, corrected for my mistakes, taught his plans, and know if there is a way for me to support that. To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
Click to expand...
What do we a need a God to tell us anything, we learn right from wrong by interacting with humans and other animals. We're social creatures, we socialize and learn soon enough how to get along, there needn't by any mystery to it, and no need for some fancy religion to tell us how to live.
 
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Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe religion and its associated magical thinking has something to do with the mental short-cuts we use for quick decision making or responses to ambiguous stimuli -- useful for hunter-gatherers in a hostile world, but not the most effective approach to epistemic analysis.
 
Sjruru

Sjruru

New Member
Ellen Brown said:
I looked at this BBC article briefly and it quickly headed off into territory that did not interest me. Did religion evolve? Are the authors asking the right questions about the issue? They use several premises that seem meaningless to me. In one, they use Bonobos (a type of Ape) and the fact that they 'food share' as a type of religious conduct.

You are welcome to read the article. I think it will likely appeal most to the non religious. Still, I ask the question of where did religion come from? Were Adam and Eve religious? They knew and had talked to God, why would they need religion? Was Abraham religious? Was Moses or Job? What about David or Solomon? Remember that David had Jonothan who apparently did the religious book keeping.

Then eventually Jesus came along and we were given instruction. Looking back, was the contact that Moses had with God in the Desert religion?

As I think about it, perhaps I don't want religion. Perhaps what I want is to sit with God, be instructed by him, corrected for my mistakes, taught his plans, and know if there is a way for me to support that. To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
Click to expand...

Man's concept of religion has but God hasn't.
 
Augustus

Augustus

…
Religion was basically a necessity for building and maintaining social groupings.

Religion was largely a way to create artificial bonds between people to enable larger scale groups to emerge beyond what could be sustained by kinship ties or direct, personal quid pro quo relationships.

Those which also encouraged a sense of self-sacrifice for the good of the group tended to fare the best and win the evolutionary battle.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Ellen Brown said:
I looked at this BBC article briefly and it quickly headed off into territory that did not interest me. Did religion evolve? Are the authors asking the right questions about the issue? They use several premises that seem meaningless to me. In one, they use Bonobos (a type of Ape) and the fact that they 'food share' as a type of religious conduct.

You are welcome to read the article. I think it will likely appeal most to the non religious. Still, I ask the question of where did religion come from? Were Adam and Eve religious? They knew and had talked to God, why would they need religion? Was Abraham religious? Was Moses or Job? What about David or Solomon? Remember that David had Jonothan who apparently did the religious book keeping.

Then eventually Jesus came along and we were given instruction. Looking back, was the contact that Moses had with God in the Desert religion?

As I think about it, perhaps I don't want religion. Perhaps what I want is to sit with God, be instructed by him, corrected for my mistakes, taught his plans, and know if there is a way for me to support that. To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
Click to expand...
BBC = Garbage
223

Skull and Bones society's favorite number is ... 322

The BBC conveniently missed Jimmy Saville's pedophile, Satan worshiping ways; until after he was dead and safe from justice.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ellen Brown said:
To show love and respect, and to live up to his expectations?
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To me, that's what religion should be mostly about, and then we can kindly disagree on some of the details without forgetting that most basic teaching of love that is called by many the "Golden Rule".
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
When it comes to inferring agency in things around us, Type 2 errors (false negatives) tend to have larger downside risks than Type 1 errors (false positives). This has resulted in our "intelligent agent detector" being overly sensitive and prone to detecting agency when it isn't there.

The illustrative example of this is a rustling in the bushes:

- if you assume it's a predator or a member of a competing tribe but it's just the wind, you're inconvenienced.

- if you assume it's the wind but it's actually a predator or an attacker, you're dead.

... so we tend to see intelligent agents (e.g. gods) in things when they aren't really there.
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
I think religion is a man made response to and expression of the awe and wonderment of the universe.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
pcarl said:
I think religion is a man made response to and expression of the awe and wonderment of the universe.
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I agree to a point, but I also feel that there is likely Something that goes beyond that, however just don't ask me what that "Something" is as that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond my pay-grade.
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
metis said:
"Something" is as that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond my pay-grade.
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And mine too. I do not understand faith and religion to be of the same. For me faith is received through the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that breathed all into existence. Part of being human is the need to respond to what we believe with words and actions in expression, not just a mental acknowledgment. Religion is to be for our benefit, God has no need of it.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
pcarl said:
For me faith is received through the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that breathed all into existence.
Click to expand...
Ditto on that, and I don't know if you ever read my rather lengthy set of experiences that over almost three years of time pushed me from being a pretty hard-care agnostic to becoming theistically inclined to the point of converting back to the Church. I really should have copied and saved it but wasn't smart enough to do that.

Not being one who has ever been inclined to superstition of any sort, including blind religious faith, I was "led" to a very liberal and ecumenical Catholicism that I am truly cherishing. I get tears just about every time I partake in the Eucharist, I've been so moved.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
In my understanding religion arise after some time, why is this? What Buddha Sakyamuni or Jesus was teaching is called a cultivation path, and it is strict in following the guidelines of how to reach the goal (enlightenment) But when people saw how difficult it was they wanted to change it to something less difficult, they change it it in to a belief, a way of beliving in Jesus or Buddha (or others) so they did not need to save them self, but let the teacher save them.

But cultivation path is changing one self, to actually doing the hard part one self.
 
Gandalf

Gandalf

Horn Tooter
Of course religion evolved. We have never witnessed a stagnant religion as societies are always always flux. Its the nature of religion and people
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Valjean said:
Thanks. Fascinating article.
Click to expand...
Indeed!

I loved this paragraph.

"f we’re going to think about the deep history of religion, then we need to be clear about what religion is. In his book The Bonobo and the Atheist, the primatologist Frans de Waal shares a funny story about participating in a panel hosted by the American Academy of Religion. When one participant suggested they start with defining religion, someone was quick to note that last time they tried to do that, “half the audience had angrily stomped out of the room”. Quipped de Waal: “And this in an academy named after the topic!”
 
W

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Modern humans have two centers of consciousness, the inner self and the ego. The inner self is the center of the unconscious mind, while the ego is the center of the conscious mind.

The inner self, as the center of the brain, is ancient animal consciousness, and is connected to natural instinct and the DNA. It appears to be associated with the thalamus region of the brain, which is the most wired part of the brain. The thalamus is the central switching station that integrates brain activity.

The ego is very new, specific only to humans, and has the properties of free will and choice. Adam was the first ego conscious. He was an emergent property of the inner self, connected to the second law; entropy. The ego generates entropy via choice and will.

Whereas the inner self is connected to the DNA , natural instinct, human nature and natural selection, the free will and choices of the ego, allows it to make choices that can assist or be at odds with the natural human properties of the inner self. Religions appeared, with the ego, as a way to help humans strike a balance between the needs of two the centers of consciousness.

It is not coincidence that controlling the whims of the ego is part of most religions. They all want the ego to choose higher principles; inner self. The ego, via choices, based on entropy impulse, can undermine and be at odds with the inner self; inner voice or inner spirit. Or the ego can choose to align itself with the inner voice. The various leaders of religions set examples and paths which lead to inner self enlightenment and salvation.

Roman 8-19; For creation waits, with eager longing, for the revealing of the sons of God.
 
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