How did Adam & Eve do it?

This is very simple. Adam and Eve sinned because they disobeyed a commandment. Death was a consequence and not a punishment. Expulsion was also a consequence. They could not have the knowledge of good and evil and live forever so they were removed from the tree of life.

Now, only man can sin so the devil is exempt.

Akivah said:

So you are saying that sin has always existed, but your god erected some sort of wall around the garden that kept sin out? If that is correct, how could the fallen angel contaminated with sin pass your god's anti-sin wall?

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He had a decoder ring.

Luca85 said:

(because he supposedly made them do it

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But it didn't, the serpent was more subtle than that. It does not deny God, but begins with a simple request for information; "Did God say 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'? " It is the temptation to be free of the limitations of the covenant during the Babylonian exile.

Akivah said:

As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

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Adam and Eve eating the Apple was not a sin in this world.

Adam and Eve ate the Apple while still in the confines of Eden. So they brought sin to Eden.

Free Will is why Adam and Eve were able to decide to eat the apple.

Satan did not make them eat the apple.

Satan gave them a choice and persuaded them to eat of it.

They had a choice to eat it or not it.

They chose wrong. Hence sin (going against God's wishes).

The Apple was not an apple.

The Apple is knowledge of good and evil. Which is the knowledge of science basically. If you think about it it's true. Science is knowledge that can be used for good or evil.

Eating the Apple was Adam and Eve rejecting God's blessings, in favor of having the knowledge to procreate, cook, build shelters etc. Because in Eden this knowledge was not needed. God provides everything. A perfect climate which means clothes/shelter was not needed. Plentiful fruit/clean water. No need to hunt/farm or sanitized the drinking water. There was no need to procreate at the time, because Adam and Eve were in immortal physical bodies at the time. Procreation of immortals would mean overpopulation is no time at all.

All of these blessings were rejected and then removes when Adam and Eve chose to disobey.

Enoch07 said:

Adam and Eve eating the Apple was not a sin in this world.

Adam and Eve ate the Apple while still in the confines of Eden. So they brought sin to Eden.

Free Will is why Adam and Eve were able to decide to eat the apple.

Satan did not make them eat the apple.

Satan gave them a choice and persuaded them to eat of it.

They had a choice to eat it or not it.

They chose wrong. Hence sin (going against God's wishes).

The Apple was not an apple.

The Apple is knowledge of good and evil. Which is the knowledge of science basically.

All of these blessings were rejected and then removes when Adam and Eve chose to disobey.

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Seems like your god put humanity on a tightrope that he knew they would fail. "Do as I say and I'll continue feeding you. Don't do as I say and I will curse you and all your descendants for thousands of years."

It also seems odd to me that a decision made by one of G-d's creations was capable of changing G-d's Creation.

Akivah said:

Seems like your god put humanity on a tightrope that he knew they would fail. "Do as I say and I'll continue feeding you. Don't do as I say and I will curse you and all your descendants for thousands of years."

It also seems odd to me that a decision made by one of G-d's creations was capable of changing G-d's Creation.

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Would you reward your child for disobeying you?

I seriously doubt it.

Enoch07 said:

Would you reward your child for disobeying you?

I seriously doubt it.

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Would you punish your child for their entire life for making a mistake?

Akivah said:

Would you punish your child for their entire life for making a mistake?

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Answer my question first.

Enoch07 said:

Adam and Eve eating the Apple was not a sin in this world.

Adam and Eve ate the Apple while still in the confines of Eden. So they brought sin to Eden.

Free Will is why Adam and Eve were able to decide to eat the apple.

Satan did not make them eat the apple.

Satan gave them a choice and persuaded them to eat of it.

They had a choice to eat it or not it.

They chose wrong. Hence sin (going against God's wishes).

The Apple was not an apple.

The Apple is knowledge of good and evil. Which is the knowledge of science basically. If you think about it it's true. Science is knowledge that can be used for good or evil.

Eating the Apple was Adam and Eve rejecting God's blessings, in favor of having the knowledge to procreate, cook, build shelters etc. Because in Eden this knowledge was not needed. God provides everything. A perfect climate which means clothes/shelter was not needed. Plentiful fruit/clean water. No need to hunt/farm or sanitized the drinking water. There was no need to procreate at the time, because Adam and Eve were in immortal physical bodies at the time. Procreation of immortals would mean overpopulation is no time at all.

All of these blessings were rejected and then removes when Adam and Eve chose to disobey.

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Eating the fruit of the Tree of the Kowledge of Good and Evil they had no knowledge of evil. Where there is no knowledge there is no sin (Romans). The knowledge tainted the flesh so that all offspring bore that knowledge. Sin ram rampant from then on to this day and tomorrow.

Akivah said:

As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

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God Sent The snake to test Eve's faith. The snake misquoted God's word to test Her faith. She fell and so did Adam when he also ate of the fruit. Thus sin was born into the world.

Of course this could just be a fable to explain that it's in human nature to sin. But that something else to debate.

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi said:

God Sent The snake to test Eve's faith. The snake misquoted God's word to test Her faith. She fell and so did Adam when he also ate of the fruit. Thus sin was born into the world.

Of course this could just be a fable to explain that it's in human nature to sin. But that something else to debate.

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It still doesn't make sense to me. Sin is defined as not doing what G-d intended. If before the snake's arrival, sin didn't exist, then it would have been impossible for A or E to choose something that wasn't what G-d intended. It there was no sin before the decision, then it would have been impossible for A&E to make a decision to do a sin.

Akivah said:

It still doesn't make sense to me. Sin is defined as not doing what G-d intended. If before the snake's arrival, sin didn't exist, then it would have been impossible for A or E to choose something that wasn't what G-d intended. It there was no sin before the decision, then it would have been impossible for A&E to make a decision to do a sin.

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I think you're definitely on the right track. I believe that sin is the willful disregard for a religious law or moral principle (which is more or less what you said). God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Clearly, the name of the tree is not coincidental. Its fruit would give the person who ate it a knowledge of good and evil, without which it is impossible to sin. Yes, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were unable to distinguish between good and evil. For this reason, I don't see their disobedience in that particular instance as being "sinful." Any disobedience which took place after they ate the forbidden fruit would, however, be deemed sinful.

Katzpur said:

I think you're definitely on the right track. I believe that sin is the willful disregard for a religious law or moral principle (which is more or less what you said). God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Clearly, the name of the tree is not coincidental. Its fruit would give the person who ate it a knowledge of good and evil, without which it is impossible to sin. Yes, Adam and Eve disobeyed God, but before they ate the forbidden fruit, they were unable to distinguish between good and evil. For this reason, I don't see their disobedience in that particular instance as being "sinful." Any disobedience which took place after they ate the forbidden fruit would, however, be deemed sinful.

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You say your god told A&E not to eat the fruit. Knowledge of good and evil is not a requirement to obey that god saying not to eat the fruit.

So you believe that eating the fruit was not the first sin? It didn't cause the so-called fall?

Akivah said:

You say your god told A&E not to eat the fruit. Knowledge of good and evil is not a requirement to obey that god saying not to eat the fruit.

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I would refer to it as a transgression. To me, knowledge of good and evil is required in order for there to be sin. One analogy -- I don't know how good it is -- would be that there is a commandment to honor your parents. If you put a 1-year-old child in a high chair with a bowl of food in front of him, if that child isn't hungry, he may very well think it's a lot more fun to turn the bowl of food upside down and watch it splatter all over the floor. Obviously, he doesn't know that this is inappropriate, so his mother cleans up the mess and dishes up more food for him. This time when she puts it in front of him, she says, "Now, this belongs in your mouth. Not on the floor. Don't empty your bowl on the floor again." Immediately the child's eyes light up. He picks up the bowl and empties it on the floor a second time and has a good laugh over it. I suppose there are people who would say that child has broken the commandment that we should honor our parents. I don't think that's the case. I don't think the child understands what it means to do what mommy says. Emptying the bowl on the floor is fun, even if mommy says not to do it. Now, let's say that child is a sixteen-year-old boy who asks to borrow the family car. His parents tell him he can't. After dinner, while they're busy reading or watching TV, he gets in his mom's purse, finds her car keys and quietly slips out to the garage and takes the car. Was what I did a sin? I think it was.

So you believe that eating the fruit was not the first sin? It didn't cause the so-called fall?

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I don't believe it was the first "sin" but I do believe it caused the Fall. Even though Adam and Eve were not able to fully comprehend the difference between good and evil, they had been told not to eat the fruit, and they had been warned of the consequences. For this reason, I think God had every reason to expel them from the Garden and to make them subject to all of the trials of mortality. I should mention, however, that I don't see the Fall in the same light as most Christians do. I believe the events in Eden unfolded exactly as God knew they would, and exactly as He knew they needed to in order for Adam and Eve to be able to learn and grow. I don't see it as much a Fall as a temporary setback, that would ultimately result in greater blessings than Adam and Eve would ever have known sitting in Eden forever, picking flowers and skinny dipping.

Katzpur said:

I would refer to it as a transgression. To me, knowledge of good and evil is required in order for there to be sin.

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How do you define the word 'transgression'?

Katzpur said:

I should mention, however, that I don't see the Fall in the same light as most Christians do. I believe the events in Eden unfolded exactly as God knew they would, and exactly as He knew they needed to in order for Adam and Eve to be able to learn and grow.

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I agree with this.

Akivah said:

How do you define the word 'transgression'?

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To me (and I'm not saying this is a definition that would be universally acceptable), a transgression is an act committed in violation of a formal prohibition, whereas a sin is an act that is inherently wrong.

Let's take the act of murder. You don't need to be a religious person to recognize the evil inherent in it. Just because a person does not believe that some Higher Power has commanded him not to murder, he would know without having ever even heard the sixth "Commandment" that it's wrong to take someone's life. The atheist who commits murder has also sinned because he has willfully violated his conscience.

Now, let's consider the act of driving without a license. It's a crime, too, just as murder is. But it's a crime because it is legally prohibited, not because there is something inherently wrong about driving without a license. There was nothing inherently "sinful" about eating some fruit, but it was an act of ignoring someone in authority, i.e. God.

I agree with this.

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That's nice to hear. It's also something I don't hear very often.

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi said:

Of course this could just be a fable to explain that it's in human nature to sin.

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You got it! Temptation is a force too easily to succumb to, being human nature to sin is the basis of original sin.

Akivah said:

As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

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God made a good but changeable world. The origin of evil is a mystery but some suggest that God hiding His face might be related.

Akivah said:

As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

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Everything God does is for a reason, meaning naming of them is not for the sake of naming but for much more then it mean!

some reason Adams name represents him and all males as Godly alike(masculine)..whereas Eve name represents her and all females that they are to be more feminine alike(emotional)..

Men dominate woman over physicality, where woman dominate men with their beauty..they are what we want and we are what they need! Adam was 1st then Eve be where we all birthed from, through her..Adam is the only one not by birth but being created..and much more to its story

meghanwaterlillies said:

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating,how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

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Akivah said:

I asked this exact question in my OP. Do you, as a Christian, have an answer?

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Hi Akivah ;

I believe that the the early Jewish/Christian/Islamic texts regarding the origin of Satan, (i.e. his existence as one of the angels in power but who came to disagree with God over an early controversy in Gods plan) are all in basic agreement on this crossroads doctrine regarding the fall of Lucifer and his becoming an enemy to God and the rest of us. I think the early, historical Judeo-Christian-Islamic texts form a logical, rational description of, not merely the origin of Satan, but of his motives for becoming an enemy to God and to Adam (and to the rest of us).

In this model, the spirits of mankind existed prior to their being born and the plan of God was to create the mortal experience partly as a social/moral tutoring as part of mankinds education in moral and social principles that would allow them to be prepared to live in a social heaven in unity and joy forever. Inside of that plan, I believe the early texts are correct in their description that God knew that mankind would fall (else he is not omniscient) and that it was according to his plan (else why would God put the deceiving/evil Satan in a position to influence the naïve Adam and Eve). In this model, Evil existed long before the Garden and gaining Moral wisdom was part of the plan from the beginning.

If you want me to go into more detail and quote the texts from the three different religions, I am happy to do so but do not want to take the thread in a different direction than you intended.

Clear
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