tigrers2019
Member
Not so.
As far back as 2004 researchers at the University of Arizona measured and recorded the electrical particles exiting a dying patient. They traced them entering into the quantum realm.
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To Hell With Hell
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
As far back as 2004 researchers at the University of Arizona measured and recorded the electrical particles exiting a dying patient. They traced them entering into the quantum realm.
Augustus
…
This kind of argument assumes that folk 2000 years ago thought about religion the same was as many 21st C atheists do. Heaven/hell are just evolutions of thought regarding the afterlife that developed further throughout the centuries. Why assume they were invented by people cynically trying to 'keep people in line'? Remember Early Christianity was not a religion of the powerful, but was somewhat subversive.
Early Christianity was popular among the disenfranchised, and the idea that the powerful and corrupt would get the comeuppance might well have been very appealing among those who had no ability to change the status quo. What's more, they got to be among the elect few, a mark of status they would be unlikely to achieve in the physical world.
Also, I'm not sure its history supports the idea that it made people think 'there's nothing people can or should do to change anything in this life' seeing as it has often had the exact opposite effect.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I say.....you end up with people just like yourself
how else to be happy?
how else to be fair?
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
What is accomplished by putting a criminal to death?
These are the offenses which may result in the death penalty under Title 18 of the United States Code:[20]
That is the US law, how about God's law?
- Causing death by using a chemical weapon or a weapon of mass destruction
- Killing a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or United States Supreme Court
- Kidnapping a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
- Conspiracy to kill a member of the Congress, the Cabinet or Supreme Court resulting in death
- Causing death by using an explosive
- Causing death by using an illegal firearm
- Causing death during a drug-related drive-by shooting
- Genocide resulting in death
- Carjacking resulting in death
- Mailing explosive substances resulting in death
- Willful destruction of aircraft or motor vehicles resulting in death.
- Causing death by aircraft hijacking or any attempt to commit aircraft hijacking.
- Causing death by kidnapping or hostage taking.
- First degree murder
- Murder perpetrated by poison or lying in wait
- Murder that is willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated
- Murder in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any arson, torture, escape, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery.
- Murder perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children
- Murder committed by a federal prisoner or an escaped federal prisoner sentenced to 15 years to life or a more severe penalty
- Assassinating the President or a member of his staff
- Kidnapping the President or a member of his staff resulting in death
- Killing persons aiding federal investigations or State correctional officers
- Willful wrecking of a train resulting in death
- Sexual abuse resulting in death
- Sexual exploitation of children resulting in death
- Torture resulting in death
- War crimes resulting in death
- Large-scale drug trafficking (e.g. high-level selling of cocaine)
- Obstruction of exercise of religion resulting in death (hate crime)
- Attempting, authorizing or advising the killing of any officer, juror, or witness in cases involving a Continuing Criminal Enterprise, even if such killing does not occur.
- Deprivation of constitutional rights or conspiracy to do so, involving kidnapping or rape, or resulting in serious bodily harm or death.
- Espionage
- Treason
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21 New International Version (NIV)
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 New International Version (NIV)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
I hope that answers your question: Just what is accomplished by putting people in hell?
Nobody has been punished to suffer the fiery hell.
Not even one.
Why?
2 Peter 3:9 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
How many died under the capital punishment of the United States?
I believe you have an idea Skwim
List of offenders executed in the United States in 2018 - Wikipedia
Capital punishment for juveniles in the United States - Wikipedia
For the Record: I consider State Sponsored Killing, to be Immoral.
Always.
I do recognize the need for Self Defense, and I see that as a Lessor Evil to allowing someone to simply kill you dead.
But I absotlutely oppose the Death Penalty.
For starters? Because the *best* justice system on Earth? Is still run by fallible humans.
That alone renders any Death Penalty immoral-- because even a 0.0001% failure rate is too much.
Because you cannot undo killing someone....
I find it incredibly ironic that Christians preach of Love and Forgiveness, but are some of the most zealous advocates of KILL'EM! KILL'EM DEAD!
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
That was completely debunked, just so you know...
Just as the 18th century "weighing of the soul" experiment-- absolutely debunked.
ajay0
Well-Known Member
I would say it is just metaphors for indicating that vicious conduct will get one into karmic problems and suffering while virtuous conduct and actions will not. Usually vice is associated with undue importance given to sense-pleasures and consequent neglect of duty .
Hell is truth seen too late - duty neglected in its season. ~ Tryan Edwards
Evil is but ignorance, misapplication and ill-health. - Aurobindo
In primitive times, hell and stuff of that sort was emphasized to get people into religious and virtuous mode of conduct, and condition them to do good and keep off from wrong actions. But a sensitive, cultured and intelligent person will do good for the sake of good, and not just from fear of hell.
Technically, everlasting fire does not entail everlasting burning. So, to say it is, is a non sequitur. If I throw a log of wood in a flame that burns for a week, then that does not mean that the log will burn for a week.
Ciao
- viole
Skwim
Veteran Member
Don't see a thing implying the destruction of the soul and body, but rather eternal punishment, which would require either the soul or the body, or both.
.
...And then there are those who don't kill their brothers in spite of the nations' wrath -- they try to obey God and Jesus -- and are then given understanding. Luke 10:21
A humble person will see this....that, for a group to perceive God's Word correctly, they must have His spirit and blessing....God won't give it to those who aren't obedient.
That's why I always 'keep harping' on Christendom's reputation, displaying support of their respective nations during times of conflict. They will kill their brothers simply because of geography, preferring nationalism over their spiritual brotherhood! 1 John 3:10-15 is apt.
Those who take part in war, don't have the needed spirit from God, to grasp the truth from His Word.
Its really so clear. But many prefer to ignore this, revelling in blindness.
There are genuine ' wheat' Christians, and there are fake 'weed/tares' Christians.
That is why there are multiple interpretations of those who claim to be Christian and those who really are Christians.
To me, what Jesus taught would be the ' right ' answer.
Can anyone think of anyone 'righteous' who went to a hot ' hell ' the day he died ___________
In Scripture ( the correct or right scriptural answer ) would be the real Christian answer, the real Jesus answer.
The day righteous Jesus died he went to biblical hell as per Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
Both Jesus and the OT teach ' sleep ' (Not hot pain) in death:
See - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Thus, that makes biblical hell as just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Even the word cemetery means 'sleeping place' and Not a hot torture place.
If biblical hell was a permanent place, then Jesus would still be in hell.
Besides, doesn't biblical hell come to a final end __________
I wonder if you ever read Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20; Acts of the Apostles 3:23 __________
I find 'eternal punishment' is a punishment that does Not involve pain but: destruction - see 2 Thessalonians 1:9
This ties in with Psalms 92:7 that the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' ( Not burning forever ).
tigrers2019
Member
Not so.
As a matter of fact, it was during this measurement that the quantum realm was actually seen and described by the researchers as like viewing the ocean from a long distance. On the surface viewed as very smooth, but just underneath very tumultuous.
This is just as described by today's debating Philosophers......."a sea of broiling energy."
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Since everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' ( resurrected out of hell ) according to Revelation 20:12-14,
then, the Bible's hell comes to a final end, and emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death' for vacated emptied-out hell.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as the world hell at Matthew 10:28 B.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever, Not burnt forever.
So, those ' destroyed ' ones are considered to be in Gehenna and Not biblical hell.
The wicked are ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7 and Not burning forever.
Not the wicked, but both the righteous and unrighteous have a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
What a person does ' after ' they are resurrected will determine then everlasting life or not for them.
Also, curious about hell, Jesus gives the biblical structure.
Jesus and the OT both teach that the dead are in an unconscious sleep-like state:
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Isaiah 38:18 and Ecclesiastes 9:9
Quote "Those who take part in war, don't have the needed spirit from God, "
Yet they go to war in gods name.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The problem is that the Bible is not consistent and different interpretations can easily be argued. One only has to pick and choose which verses that one uses. For example in the story of Lazurus hell is portrayed as being an area of torment:
Luke 16
That is a teaching of Jesus that appears to go against your claim. I am not saying that either is right, but one can justify either with the Bible. And how do you know that you are not a "tare"? I am betting that I can put up a good argument for you being one.
'Go to war in god's name' to me is that false clergy use the pulpit as a recruiting station so that parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War teaching that is the same thing as the Altar of God when it is not.
At Armageddon ( the final war Psalms 46:9 ) it is only Jesus with angelic armies ( No human help ) that is involved - Revelation 19:14-16.
The Bible is clear at Matthew 13:34 that Jesus only addressed the crowds with parable illustrations.
This means the illustrative lesson found at Luke 16:14-31 is just that a parable and Not a real happening.
Whereas, John chapter 11 is about real persons and real happenings.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, it was a parable and need not be true. The idea of someone getting through from hell for example seems a bit much. But it still implies that hell is a place of torment. You now appear to be cherry picking. That is a problem with the Bible as a whole. It is quite often contradictory.
Dead Jesus was in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11:11-14
OT teaches sleep in death - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4
There is No contradiction.
Where there is contradiction is that false clergy teach a religious-myth teaching as being Scripture.