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The Differences between EL and Elohim

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
So how do you know that Strong's is 100% correct in this matter?
Strongs allows us to word search it, read the texts our self, and study the evidence; why take someone's word for it, unless we can see it.

Strongs isn't always perfect, yet we can see the evidence with Bible software to see why.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Strongs allows us to word search it, read the texts our self, and study the evidence; why take someone's word for it, unless we can see it.

Strongs isn't always perfect, yet we can see the evidence with Bible software to see why.

In my opinion. :innocent:
I appreciate your thoughtful answer.

If Strong's is not always perfect; I think what you said below is exaggerated.

We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language

The above assumes that the "liars" did not have their own evidence that is stronger ( no pun intended ) than yours.

At this point, I would like to review your evidence. I'm not intending to prove you wrong. I am just curious for my own academic purposes.
 

9-18-1

Active Member
We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language, as the people stating it literally can be shown to not understand it properly.
  • אל - El (H410) is applicable to the Source, and is singular for God.
  • אלהּ - Eloh (H433) is a Divine Being, the added H means manifest by the Source.
  • אלהים - Elohim (H430) is plural of Eloh, and means Divine Beings or gods; beings manifested by the Source.
Plural of EL is אלים - Elim (Gods), not Elohim; where there is no additional Strongs reference number for Elim, even tho there are multiple cases of it existing in Hebrew (Job 41:25, Psalms 29:1, Psalms 89:7, Isaiah 57:5, Daniel 11:36).

In Isaiah 46:9 we're told that EL is not like the Elohim, and 'to remember the days of old', which references Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is above the Elohim (Divine Council).

The Curse of Moses is because the Jews had rejected EL as the Source (Deuteronomy 32:18); whilst trying to make YHVH Elohim into EL, as they don't know the difference theologically.

Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock who became your father, you are unmindful, and have forgotten God (EL) who gave you birth.


There is a Divine Council (Elohim) which surrounds the Source (EL), and outside of this reality, there are other realities possible with other Elim (Gods).

YHVH Elohim is the archangel who is Lord of Creation, and is a child of the Sources (Elim).

In my opinion. :innocent:

The word אל literally means "towards" and is the same "towardsness" that sperm naturally has. It is loosely translated 'god'.
The word ים literally means "sea" and is any medium within which "towardness" אל can operate.
The letter הּ denotes the archetype of the womb whence anything is brought into existence
The word אלהּ literally means "these" and involves the "towardsness" and a womb through/of which to be born. It is loosely translated 'goddess'.

The word אלהים contains both:
אל - "towardness" / seed [bestowal] which is masculine
הים - "womb" / sea [reception] which is feminine.

When אלהים is the speaker, it self-addresses as 'let us make Adam in our imagine, after our likeness...' because אלהים in itself is a royal plural: god and goddess conjunct as one entity. This is why when אלהים is not the speaker, it retains its singular quality "male and female created he them...". Whenever a singular is used, the default "gender" is masculine. However, אלהים is not masculine or feminine, it is both: seed/womb bound by a shared will:

Shared will: And אלהים said:
To bestow: 'Let there be light,'
To receive: and there was light.

A secular understanding of אלהים therefor involves only two being(s) wherein one bestows, one receives, and the action(s) is (are) shared via a mutual will.

Now with all of this in mind, the Torah has 3-4 authors (therefor not from any potent god - entire exodus story is fabricated) therefor Judaism doesn't actually have a potent god at its basis, which is consequently catastrophic for Islam and Christianity as well.

This is why "belief" is not a virtue - it is actually the closest thing one can come to with regards to שָׂטָן 'satan' - when ones life becomes an expression of their bind(s) which exist in an ongoing state.

שָׂ - expression (three vavs = psychological/emotional/behavioral)
טָ - bind(s) (serpent)
ן - ongoing (same phenomena as light falling into a dense/heavy object)

When someone "believes" something (that is not true), this becomes their own bind. Any/all "belief"-based institutions are technically 'satanic' given that the books of Moses (Torah), Bible and Qur'an are all (at least) heavily redacted/edited and/or (at most) completely man-made, reflecting tribal (political) divisions.

We need to understand that, when these books were written, there *was no* separation of church and state in the M/E regions whence these books came. The state was the church - Islam being a good modern-day example of this (which is itself "belief"-based).

So those who call themselves "believers" are actually bound (by such "beliefs") which results in them trying to find *outside* sources of their own problem(s) (suffering) rather than realizing the problem is internal. When this blaming/scapegoating becomes a device for navigating life, the person descends into a state of projecting his/her own nature outwards while trying to condemn everyone else as having it. This is 'psychological projection' and is the same as the mark of Cain - one who digs from ones own soil rather than giving up the animal (nature) in exchange for human (evolution).

This is also where the Canaanite (Judaic-Islamic) notion of scapegoating and/or animal/human sacrifice comes from. The sins of the tribe are placed on another being, and that being is sacrificed which makes the tribe "BELIEVE" they are now clean. In reality, they are Canaanites doing Canaanite animal/human sacrifice. Any animal/human sacrifice involving real animals is itself of Canaanite origin. This has implications for Judaism/Islam.

All of these stories come from early Egyptian mysticism (Moses, who was actually an Egyptian Akhunatun, was trained in these mystery schools) and can be read/understood wholly outside of the religious institutions built around them. In fact such a secular reading could probably clean up a lot of the mess on the planet in my opinion - beginning with how a proper 'state' should be established based on how nature itself works: shared will between a male and a female (king and queen).

Unfortunately the Abrahamic religions hate women and reduce them into slaves to men. This is essentially what is destroying humanity - Islam being the culprit, Judaism being the parent culprit of having adopted idol worship from Canaanites. These things give rise to socialism / fascism naturally: don't criticize our book/idol! This is where antisemitism/Islamophobia come from: religiously-based forcible suppression of criticisms which undermine the religious 'state' and/or state of the "believer" (which are one and the same, usually revolving around a central idol/figure such as Jesus/Muhammad).
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language, as the people stating it literally can be shown to not understand it properly.
  • אל - El (H410) is applicable to the Source, and is singular for God.
  • אלהּ - Eloh (H433) is a Divine Being, the added H means manifest by the Source.
  • אלהים - Elohim (H430) is plural of Eloh, and means Divine Beings or gods; beings manifested by the Source.
Plural of EL is אלים - Elim (Gods), not Elohim; where there is no additional Strongs reference number for Elim, even tho there are multiple cases of it existing in Hebrew (Job 41:25, Psalms 29:1, Psalms 89:7, Isaiah 57:5, Daniel 11:36).

In Isaiah 46:9 we're told that EL is not like the Elohim, and 'to remember the days of old', which references Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is above the Elohim (Divine Council).

The Curse of Moses is because the Jews had rejected EL as the Source (Deuteronomy 32:18); whilst trying to make YHVH Elohim into EL, as they don't know the difference theologically.

Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock who became your father, you are unmindful, and have forgotten God (EL) who gave you birth.


There is a Divine Council (Elohim) which surrounds the Source (EL), and outside of this reality, there are other realities possible with other Elim (Gods).

YHVH Elohim is the archangel who is Lord of Creation, and is a child of the Sources (Elim).

In my opinion. :innocent:
You don't mention your authority for the readings you present.

Are we to assume that by day you're a famous professor of Biblical Hebrew?

Or are you reliant on others for your claims, and if so, who and why?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Are we to assume that by day you're a famous professor of Biblical Hebrew?

Or are you reliant on others for your claims, and if so, who and why?
Get a copy of Esword Bible software, and understand it; then someone doesn't have to count as the target for the lack of comprehension.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
where we can search the Hebrew
So, most respectfully, once you get to the point of looking at the Hebrew, how do you know that your interpretation is correct and how do you know that your translation is accurate?

At some point you're going to be looking at Hebrew words. What is your process at that point?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
At some point you're going to be looking at Hebrew words. What is your process at that point?
Since with a Hebrew old testament + in Esword we can see all Strongs references, and the Hebrew with out vowel points, we can search in the Hebrew...

Learn the Hebrew alphabet, and we can see what we're looking at.
So, most respectfully, once you get to the point of looking at the Hebrew, how do you know that your interpretation is correct and how do you know that your translation is accurate?
Because this is very basic grammar: adding IM - ים to a word makes it plural....

Adding H - הּ makes it God breathed, like Abram became Abraham, and Sara became Sarah when blessed by God.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Hebrew with out vowel points

@wizanda, thank you for this, Now I understand. You are looking at Hebrew without vowels.

I would like to point out, that without the vowels, a person may have a hard time telling the difference between two similar words without some help from an authority of some sort.

I want to re-post your original claim to your OP so that my objection is clear. I am not objecting that your claim about the word EL is false. I am objecting that "we all have been lied to".

We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language

If there are people who do not share your opinion about the word EL, they are not automatically liars if they maintain their view and teach others.

To be a liar they would need to knowingly deceive.

Calling the people who have a different opinion than yours "liars" is very hard to prove.

First you would have to prove that your evidence over-rules theirs.
Second you would have to show intent to knowingly deceive.

Calling someone a liar without just cause is slander or libel ( depending on the venue ). And even without a legal justice system, I think we agree that it is immoral.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Any Bible software will do, where we can search the Hebrew, and a KJV+ to search by Strongs numbers.
I have no problem with Strong.

But if you're relying on Strong (pretty much like the rest of us) who's been 'lied to about the Hebrew language' as your OP says?
 

9-18-1

Active Member
I am objecting that "we all have been lied to".

It is a true statement.

The Torah was not delivered by any potent god - this is a "belief". In fact, we "know" (not believe, assume, wish it to be etc.) the Torah has multiple independent authors - distinguishable by rivaling political views. Taken from page 34 of "The Bible Unearthed" [Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman]

"The French Dominican biblical scholar and archeologist Roland de Vaux noted, for example, that "if the historical faith of Israel is not founded in history, such faith is erroneous, and therefor, our faith is also."

...which then goes on to elaborate how the entire "narrative" of Abraham and patriarchs were falsified:

[p37]"...even if the later texts contained some early traditions, the selection and arrangement of stories expressed a clear message by the biblical editors at the time of the compilation, rather than preserving a reliable historical account."

[p38]"So the combination of camels, Arabian goods, Philistines, and Gerar - as well as other places and nations mentioned in the patriarchal stories in Genesis--are highly significant. All the clues point to a time of composition many centuries after the time in which the Bible reports the lives of the patriarchs took place. These and other anachronisms suggest an intensive period of writing the patriarchal narratives in the eighth and seventh centuries BCE."

In other words: fabricated, just as any empire would falsify and/or adjust narratives to suit that empire. Israel is no different: Jews are no different. They are appealing to a false authority by imbuing a book with an authority it does not actually have. This is why the world is f***ed - you demand evidences for claims, yet protect yourselves behind false ones, the magnitude of which has been devastating on humanity. The poster is absolutely justified in stating "we have all been lied to" because it is true - the Jews falsified history to suit themselves.

And guess what? The Muhammadans are bi-products of this. Same nonsense: compiling from various authors, imbuing it with an authority it does not have, and using a similar idol as a central figure for the empire just as the Jews did before. It is all Canaanite idol worship, and is really pathetic - not to say most Jews and Muslims are not good people, but *they* comprise the people who are absolutely 100% being lied to, and that includes any "believer".

So do not demand a standard of proof/evidence when the same is not met for your own "belief" - this makes the hypocrite. Jews/Muslims are both in the same boat here - (completely false) assertions not only without evidence, but in the face of extensive publicly available archeological evidence which overwhelmingly disputes it.

If there are people who do not share your opinion about the word EL, they are not automatically liars if they maintain their view and teach others.

They are still being lied to. If a lie slips through a multitude, is it not still a lie? The person letting it slip through may not consciously be lying, but it is still a lie, and the person a vehicle of it. This is not a virtue - you put much "faith" in so-called authority.

To be a liar they would need to knowingly deceive.

The leaders of Judaism/Islam do this (either knowingly or unknowingly) and the top-most owners know the books are man-made (knowingly lie).

Calling the people who have a different opinion than yours "liars" is very hard to prove.

That the Torah is man-made is not an opinion - that it is *not* is overwhelmingly moreso one. It has less to do with the person (ad hominem) and more of *the lie itself*, where it came from, what damage it has done etc. Stop focusing on people and accusations on lies - focus on the lie itself (if you can bring yourself to see it).

First you would have to prove that your evidence over-rules theirs.
Second you would have to show intent to knowingly deceive.

People lying vs. the lie itself.

Calling someone a liar without just cause is slander or libel ( depending on the venue ). And even without a legal justice system, I think we agree that it is immoral.

Judaism is a lie and is immoral because it is rooted in multiple lies which are taught by authorities despite not being actually true. Islam is the same.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Jews have their archaeologically identifiable origins as a people group around 1100 BC.

That is the time you begin to see a new people group producing distinguishable material culture and growing into the Israelite kingdoms which were established about 1000 BC.

That said, their kingdom only lasted until 586 BC, with a short resurgence between the Greek and Roman empires from about 170-37 BCE.

Further, they were destroyed and scattered in 140 AD after the end of the Bar Kokhba revolt, the last gasp of Jewish nationalist revolt in antiquity. After this, they were very much a people in diaspora, scattered across the world. It is up for debate whether this counts as a "civilization".
 

Cassandra

Active Member
We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language, as the people stating it literally can be shown to not understand it properly.
  • אל - El (H410) is applicable to the Source, and is singular for God.
  • אלהּ - Eloh (H433) is a Divine Being, the added H means manifest by the Source.
  • אלהים - Elohim (H430) is plural of Eloh, and means Divine Beings or gods; beings manifested by the Source.
Plural of EL is אלים - Elim (Gods), not Elohim; where there is no additional Strongs reference number for Elim, even tho there are multiple cases of it existing in Hebrew (Job 41:25, Psalms 29:1, Psalms 89:7, Isaiah 57:5, Daniel 11:36).

In Isaiah 46:9 we're told that EL is not like the Elohim, and 'to remember the days of old', which references Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is above the Elohim (Divine Council).

The Curse of Moses is because the Jews had rejected EL as the Source (Deuteronomy 32:18); whilst trying to make YHVH Elohim into EL, as they don't know the difference theologically.

Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock who became your father, you are unmindful, and have forgotten God (EL) who gave you birth.


There is a Divine Council (Elohim) which surrounds the Source (EL), and outside of this reality, there are other realities possible with other Elim (Gods).

YHVH Elohim is the archangel who is Lord of Creation, and is a child of the Sources (Elim).

In my opinion. :innocent:
My personal opinion

As I understand it, the Canaanites worshiped a pantheon of four Gods El and his wife Asherah and His Son Jahweh and his wife. Both wives were also sisters. [see the likeness of Abraham and Isaac marrying sisters]. They also worshiped many lesser Gods called Elohim.

Under influence of the Persians (their priesthood known as Farsi) and Greek religion (Plato's Transcendent God) a new religion developed in which the Goddess and lesser Gods were dropped and the Father and Son god where merged into one. To do that end they merged all the various religious scriptures into one book with one ideology/theology.

Which could be the reason the scripture(s) address their God(s) with El, Yahweh and Elohim, and why the priesthood prefers the more neutral Lord (Jehovah, which is actually the same general title as Baal).

Basically we have two religions, the original religion of the Canaanites and the new one created by the priesthood and retrofitted on history.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
We've all been lied to about the Hebrew language, as the people stating it literally can be shown to not understand it properly.
  • אל - El (H410) is applicable to the Source, and is singular for God.
  • אלהּ - Eloh (H433) is a Divine Being, the added H means manifest by the Source.
  • אלהים - Elohim (H430) is plural of Eloh, and means Divine Beings or gods; beings manifested by the Source.
Plural of EL is אלים - Elim (Gods), not Elohim; where there is no additional Strongs reference number for Elim, even tho there are multiple cases of it existing in Hebrew (Job 41:25, Psalms 29:1, Psalms 89:7, Isaiah 57:5, Daniel 11:36).

In Isaiah 46:9 we're told that EL is not like the Elohim, and 'to remember the days of old', which references Deuteronomy 32:7-9, where El Elyon is above the Elohim (Divine Council).

The Curse of Moses is because the Jews had rejected EL as the Source (Deuteronomy 32:18); whilst trying to make YHVH Elohim into EL, as they don't know the difference theologically.

Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock who became your father, you are unmindful, and have forgotten God (EL) who gave you birth.


There is a Divine Council (Elohim) which surrounds the Source (EL), and outside of this reality, there are other realities possible with other Elim (Gods).

YHVH Elohim is the archangel who is Lord of Creation, and is a child of the Sources (Elim).

In my opinion. :innocent:


El is just short for Elohim

Words do have various semantic ranges and the context and I just don't think how the Bible refers to the Bible in these matters supports you're view. For example, the Bible also does uses 'last Elohim' for 'false gods' which contrasts with Elohim
I think you're missing the proper use of the words in the literature

There is also 'a plural of majesty' in many views regarding God and the Hebrew for 'God is one (ehad)' supports a diversity in a unity. 'The two shall become 'one (ehad) flesh' for example.
or one(ehad) cluster of grapes carried from the promised land

We've been lied to? by Moses? by the prophets? by Jesus? by apostles? who do you see as the agent for your claims
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
The word אל literally means "towards" and is the same "towardsness" that sperm naturally has. It is loosely translated 'god'.
The word ים literally means "sea" and is any medium within which "towardness" אל can operate.
The letter הּ denotes the archetype of the womb whence anything is brought into existence
The word אלהּ literally means "these" and involves the "towardsness" and a womb through/of which to be born. It is loosely translated 'goddess'.

The word אלהים contains both:
אל - "towardness" / seed [bestowal] which is masculine
הים - "womb" / sea [reception] which is feminine.

When אלהים is the speaker, it self-addresses as 'let us make Adam in our imagine, after our likeness...' because אלהים in itself is a royal plural: god and goddess conjunct as one entity. This is why when אלהים is not the speaker, it retains its singular quality "male and female created he them...". Whenever a singular is used, the default "gender" is masculine. However, אלהים is not masculine or feminine, it is both: seed/womb bound by a shared will:

Shared will: And אלהים said:
To bestow: 'Let there be light,'
To receive: and there was light.

A secular understanding of אלהים therefor involves only two being(s) wherein one bestows, one receives, and the action(s) is (are) shared via a mutual will.

Now with all of this in mind, the Torah has 3-4 authors (therefor not from any potent god - entire exodus story is fabricated) therefor Judaism doesn't actually have a potent god at its basis, which is consequently catastrophic for Islam and Christianity as well.

This is why "belief" is not a virtue - it is actually the closest thing one can come to with regards to שָׂטָן 'satan' - when ones life becomes an expression of their bind(s) which exist in an ongoing state.

שָׂ - expression (three vavs = psychological/emotional/behavioral)
טָ - bind(s) (serpent)
ן - ongoing (same phenomena as light falling into a dense/heavy object)

When someone "believes" something (that is not true), this becomes their own bind. Any/all "belief"-based institutions are technically 'satanic' given that the books of Moses (Torah), Bible and Qur'an are all (at least) heavily redacted/edited and/or (at most) completely man-made, reflecting tribal (political) divisions.

We need to understand that, when these books were written, there *was no* separation of church and state in the M/E regions whence these books came. The state was the church - Islam being a good modern-day example of this (which is itself "belief"-based).

So those who call themselves "believers" are actually bound (by such "beliefs") which results in them trying to find *outside* sources of their own problem(s) (suffering) rather than realizing the problem is internal. When this blaming/scapegoating becomes a device for navigating life, the person descends into a state of projecting his/her own nature outwards while trying to condemn everyone else as having it. This is 'psychological projection' and is the same as the mark of Cain - one who digs from ones own soil rather than giving up the animal (nature) in exchange for human (evolution).

This is also where the Canaanite (Judaic-Islamic) notion of scapegoating and/or animal/human sacrifice comes from. The sins of the tribe are placed on another being, and that being is sacrificed which makes the tribe "BELIEVE" they are now clean. In reality, they are Canaanites doing Canaanite animal/human sacrifice. Any animal/human sacrifice involving real animals is itself of Canaanite origin. This has implications for Judaism/Islam.

All of these stories come from early Egyptian mysticism (Moses, who was actually an Egyptian Akhunatun, was trained in these mystery schools) and can be read/understood wholly outside of the religious institutions built around them. In fact such a secular reading could probably clean up a lot of the mess on the planet in my opinion - beginning with how a proper 'state' should be established based on how nature itself works: shared will between a male and a female (king and queen).

Unfortunately the Abrahamic religions hate women and reduce them into slaves to men. This is essentially what is destroying humanity - Islam being the culprit, Judaism being the parent culprit of having adopted idol worship from Canaanites. These things give rise to socialism / fascism naturally: don't criticize our book/idol! This is where antisemitism/Islamophobia come from: religiously-based forcible suppression of criticisms which undermine the religious 'state' and/or state of the "believer" (which are one and the same, usually revolving around a central idol/figure such as Jesus/Muhammad).

AZAZEL - JewishEncyclopedia.com

jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2203-azazel

JewishEncyclopedia.com. The goat that fell to Yhwh was slain as a sin-offering for the people. But the goat of Azazel (now usually known as the "scapegoat") was made the subject of a more striking ceremony. The high priest laid his hands upon its head and confessed over it the sins of the people.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
We've been lied to? by Moses? by the prophets? by Jesus? by apostles? who do you see as the agent for your claims
Moses, David, Isaiah spoke ancient Hebrew, by the time of Zechariah (tho he was a true prophet), it is clear after the Babylonian Exile the Jews had started to lose sight of the theology...

Thus in Malachi 1:6-9 the Jews no longer recognize that EL is the father of YHVH...

In Malachi 4:4-6 it is stated that Elijah (John the Baptist), and Yeshua (YHVH) will come to return the Jews back to EL Elyon (God Most High - Luke 1:32, Luke 6:35), else the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) will be put on them, as stated in Deuteronomy 32:7-18.

The Church established by the Pharisees (John, Paul and Simon the stone (petros)) didn't understand this correction or who Yeshua was claiming to be, so they've muddled it all up.

The Rabbinic Jews are muddled since the Babylonian exile, so they've heavily misled the Church by their confusion as well... It is just a cacophony of errors.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
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