Is God within or was merely in midst of the Pharisees?

Deeje · Apr 7, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
God is everywhere, and all human beings contain the divine spark within them.

All human beings breathe the same air and have the same kind of blood in their veins.....spiritually they are completely disunited.

In order to become a worshipper of the God of Israel, one had to convert to the Jewish faith and live according to Jewish Law. God did not ever accept anyone of another faith if they continued to worship other gods.

When Israel fell to false worship, he punished them.

What God requires of all of his human children is obedience......it is all he has ever asked of us, yet it is the one thing we still have the most trouble doing..... :facepalm:

Doing the will of God is incumbent on all of us, but most still want to do things their way. That is what got us into this mess in the first place. Do we ever learn?

9-18-1 · Apr 7, 2019

atanu said:
Luke 17.20-24
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is within' you.”

As per some Christians, God could not be within the Pharisees (because elsewhere in Bible they were described as impure). And so they translate 'entos' as 'midst', leading to non-sensical the kingdom of God is in the 'midst' of you. This would render the God and His Kingdom temporal.

What is the general and Christian understanding?

...

I can not give a general or Christian understanding, as each has their own. If it happens to become institutionalized in some way, I don't see how/why it should be treated as authoritative, but rather should be scrutinized further.

However the kingdom of heaven is not a place - it is a state of being which has the potential to manifest from within. It is (of) the heart - the arbitrator between the head (Adam) and sex (Eve). The Edenic mystery involves balancing these two polarities in pursuit of the kingdom, which is like a mustard seed. It can be anything and involve anything, so long as it is the most principle (and hidden - deeply personal) object to be desired all other interests aside. For example, if one imagines their own kingdom (of heaven) and makes this their mustard seed, and serves humanity with the same (the very same) desire for the seed itself to eventually become a real manifest reality for that being, their servitude to humanity manifests the kingdom (of heaven).

As such ones own ability to manifest their kingdom (of heaven) is directly related to their ability to visualize it, solidify it and pursue it with it in mind in all that they say and do. Because time is circular, one can plant seeds and see their fruits in their seasons.

The kingdom of heaven is everywhere: here, now. It does not come later and is not a sight to behold. If one has died, they have already missed it. This is why religious institutions that teach an external somewhere-else heaven are exploiting people to the max.

atanu · Apr 7, 2019

Deeje said:
.spiritually they are completely disunited.

Spiritually all are disunited? Can you please elaborate?

blü 2 · Apr 7, 2019

In the NT 'The Kingdom of God' has two principal meanings.

One meaning considers that the Kingdom of God already exists, being the faithful as a group, or their faith itself seen as an entity.

Matthew 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Mark 4:26 And he said, "The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed upon the ground,
Mark 10:15 Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."
Luke 10:9 heal the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God has come near to you.'
Luke 10:11 'Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet, we wipe off against you; nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.'
Luke 11:20 But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Luke 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
1 Luke 17:21 nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."
1 Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not food and drink but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit;

The other meaning refers to a future state, perhaps on earth, perhaps in Heaven.

Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent, and believe in the gospel."
Mark 9:1 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power."
Mark 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,
Mark 10:23 And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!"
Mark 10:24 And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."
Matthew 21:31 “Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Luke 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."
Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Luke 13:28 There you will weep and gnash your teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out.
Luke 21:31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
Luke 22:16 for I tell you I shall not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."
Luke 22:18 for I tell you that from now on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."

and outside the gospels:

Acts 1:3 To them he presented himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing to them during forty days, and speaking of the kingdom of God.
Acts 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts,
1 Corinthians 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50 I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Galatians 5:21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering─

And there's a further 36 verses that use the phrase but could be read either way.

Deeje · Apr 7, 2019

atanu said:
Spiritually all are disunited? Can you please elaborate?

As spiritual beings, disunity resulted when humans decided how they wanted to worship, rather than to follow what God had told them to do. Free will can be abused and the results can be devastating. Adam abused his free will and so did his wife. That set the devil up as humanity's new "god" and ruler. He has been calling the shots all this time.....leading people away from God through all manner of false worship.

Humanity are all related as children of Adam...but if there is one God and all are descended from the ones whom God created, then there was just one form of worship in the beginning.....it was simple and did not need a lengthy set of laws....but after the fall in Eden, humans added and subtracted from what God prescribed and today we have more "religions" than we can count.

It all got very complicated and confusing.

We have a common enemy whom Jesus identified a satan the devil..."the father of the lie". He has been lying to us about God from the beginning, so I believe that it is up to us to get to know the God of the Bible for ourselves and make up our own minds about him.

atanu · Apr 7, 2019

Deeje said:
As spiritual beings, disunity resulted when humans decided how they wanted to worship, rather than to follow what God had told them to do. Free will can be abused and the results can be devastating. Adam abused his free will and so did his wife. That set the devil up as humanity's new "god" and ruler. He has been calling the shots all this time.....leading people away from God through all manner of false worship.

Humanity are all related as children of Adam...but if there is one God and all are descended from the ones whom God created, then there was just one form of worship in the beginning.....it was simple and did not need a lengthy set of laws....but after the fall in Eden, humans added and subtracted from what God prescribed and today we have more "religions" than we can count. It all got very complicated and confusing.

We have a common enemy whom Jesus identified a satan the devil..."the father of the lie". He has been lying to us about God from the beginning, so I believe that it is up to us to get to know the God of the Bible for ourselves and make up our own minds about him.

Well. To us, spirit cannot be cut or burnt or wet. There is no way of disuniting spirit.

But you are correct. There are layers and we may be in different layers. There are body, ego, living soul, Seer, and pure awareness levels. There may be disunity and dualism at body/ego/living soul levels. But the Seer sees no difference and at pure awareness seer, seen, and seeing is non dual.

And,IMO, Jesus, the Seer surely saw God within all.

Any way. It is your scripture. Take it as you will.

Deeje · Apr 7, 2019

atanu said:
Well. To us, spirit cannot be cut or burnt or wet. There is no way of disuniting spirit.

I guess that depends on what you believe "spirit" to be. In the Bible there are several meanings to this word.

atanu said:
But you are correct. There are layers and we may be in different layers.

It is obvious that we are not just material beings....there is an innate spirituality in man that has been in evidence for his whole existence. But we see today that so many people have stopped believing in God and engaging in spiritual pursuits, instead chasing after material things and pleasure and wondering why so many are depressed and troubled. It is a need that is not being fed and they end up being in a state of spiritual malnutrition which in turn creates a feeling of frustration, trying to fill an emptiness that is never satisfied.

atanu said:
IMO, Jesus, the Seer surely saw God within all.

Jesus did have the ability to read the hearts and motivations of those whom he encountered. But he did not see God within those who were incorrigibly wicked. He has promised to punish them all before he brings his rulership to this earth. That is the Bible's message. Everything that happens on this earth has a purpose.

atanu said:
Any way. It is your scripture. Take it as you will.

I have studied it very carefully for over 40 years. I am still learning.

IndigoChild5559 · Apr 8, 2019

Deeje said:
All human beings breathe the same air and have the same kind of blood in their veins.....spiritually they are completely disunited.

In order to become a worshipper of the God of Israel, one had to convert to the Jewish faith and live according to Jewish Law. God did not ever accept anyone of another faith if they continued to worship other gods.

When Israel fell to false worship, he punished them.

What God requires of all of his human children is obedience......it is all he has ever asked of us, yet it is the one thing we still have the most trouble doing.....

Doing the will of God is incumbent on all of us, but most still want to do things their way. That is what got us into this mess in the first place. Do we ever learn?

Deeje: Judaism is required of Jews. It is not required of non-Jews. No non-Jew is required to become a Jew and keep Jewish law.

Deeje · Apr 8, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Deeje: Judaism is required of Jews. It is not required of non-Jews. No non-Jew is required to become a Jew and keep Jewish law.

Any non-Israelite who wished to become a worshipper of Jehovah had to convert to the Jewish faith and obey the laws given to God's people. They could never become "Jews" in a fleshly sense, but were welcome in Israel as "brothers" who loved God and wanted to worship him.

The Mosaic Law made specific provisions for a person of non-Israelite origin dwelling in Israel. Such an “alien resident” could become a full worshiper of Jehovah, being circumcised, if a male, in acknowledgment of his acceptance of true worship. (Exodus 12:48, 49) A proselyte was responsible to obey all of the Law, and he was to be treated by natural Jews as a brother. (Leviticus 19:33-34; Leviticus 24:22; Galatians 5:3)

IndigoChild5559 · Apr 8, 2019

Deeje said:
Any non-Israelite who wished to become a worshipper of Jehovah had to convert to the Jewish faith and obey the laws given to God's people. They could never become "Jews" in a fleshly sense, but were welcome in Israel as "brothers" who loved God and wanted to worship him.

The Mosaic Law made specific provisions for a person of non-Israelite origin dwelling in Israel. Such an “alien resident” could become a full worshiper of Jehovah, being circumcised, if a male, in acknowledgment of his acceptance of true worship. (Exodus 12:48, 49) A proselyte was responsible to obey all of the Law, and he was to be treated by natural Jews as a brother. (Leviticus 19:33-34; Leviticus 24:22; Galatians 5:3)

You are correct about the Ger Toshav, the Resident Alien, sometimes translated as stranger or foreigner, but really referring to someone who permanently settles in Israel, and becomes an Israelite in order to do so (meaning they are circumcised and take up the covenant). Within the land of Israel it was required to be such a proselyte in order to be a Ger Toshav. This is why sometimes Ger is also translated as convert or proselyte.

However, this is not true for Gentiles living outside the Land. For example, the Ninevites did not have to become Jews. Naaman did not become a Jew. Outside of Israel, a Gentile merely needed to worship God and be righteous. Often they were taught by the rabbis (especially when the rabbis spread synagogues all over Rome) but not necessarily.

Jewish opinions differ on what it means to "believe in God." Some believe it means being educated in the Torah and believing strictly in the God of Abraham, no variations. Others accept variations of the God of Abraham, such as Islam. And still others accept almost any expression of God being an attempt to worship the One God. I'm with that last group. As far as I'm concerned, you can worship the Great Spirit, be a moral person, and I'm fine with you.

Deeje · Apr 8, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
Jewish opinions differ on what it means to "believe in God." Some believe it means being educated in the Torah and believing strictly in the God of Abraham, no variations. Others accept variations of the God of Abraham, such as Islam. And still others accept almost any expression of God being an attempt to worship the One God. I'm with that last group. As far as I'm concerned, you can worship the Great Spirit, be a moral person, and I'm fine with you.

This is something I find extraordinary about most religions.....the factions.....all originating from the same source but diversifying into 'branches' of the same faith, with different takes on things.....who decides who has the right "branch"? More importantly how does God feel about this? It really doesn't matter what we think.....only his opinion matters.

sooda · Apr 8, 2019

Deeje said:
This is something I find extraordinary about most religions.....the factions.....all originating from the same source but diversifying into 'branches' of the same faith, with different takes on things.....who decides who has the right "branch"? More importantly how does God feel about this? It really doesn't matter what we think.....only his opinion matters.

Religion has always attracted scalawags and confidence men.. and politicians.

IndigoChild5559 · Apr 8, 2019

Deeje said:
This is something I find extraordinary about most religions.....the factions.....all originating from the same source but diversifying into 'branches' of the same faith, with different takes on things.....who decides who has the right "branch"? More importantly how does God feel about this? It really doesn't matter what we think.....only his opinion matters.

Deeje: Each religion has to work it out for themselves. One may have an entirely different process for discerning who is right than another. Heck one might have great church councils where reason and debate rule and another might cast lots. You have to leave it alone.

URAVIP2ME · Apr 8, 2019

atanu said:
Thank you for your view. Honestly, imo, this interpretation does not accord with essential nature of Godhead.
Mouth speaks only what is in the emotions, in mind. But God is within. Mind does not know it. Heart-mind is treacherous. But what knows that treachery? And as @Windwalker has pointed out spirit of God is now and here -- not absent from any place or any time.

We know that ' teacherous heart ' because it urges us to do something, and after we do it then the treacherous heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place. - Jeremiah 17:9
Thus, our fallen heart is a ' traitor within ' us because of the inherited imperfection from father Adam.- Mark 7:23
We choose to follow the leading of God's spirit or not. God is only a prayer and a Scripture away.

URAVIP2ME · Apr 8, 2019

sooda said:
Religion has always attracted scalawags and confidence men.. and politicians.

... and I think you forgot to mention the scalawag Pharisees and scribes of Jesus' day.
Since the religious leaders proved false in Jesus' day, then it should be No surprise that is also true today.

URAVIP2ME · Apr 8, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
God is everywhere, and all human beings contain the divine spark within them.

Everywhere to me, in the sense that God is just a prayer and a Scripture away.
However, I find at 1 Kings chapter 8 that God does have a specific home location, although No ZIP code is listed.

atanu · Apr 8, 2019

URAVIP2ME said:
We know that ' teacherous heart ' because it urges us to do something, and after we do it then the treacherous heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place. - Jeremiah 17:9
Thus, our fallen heart is a ' traitor within ' us because of the inherited imperfection from father Adam.- Mark 7:23
We choose to follow the leading of God's spirit or not. God is only a prayer and a Scripture away.

Ego heart justifies acts of individual greed etc. But no one is devoid of conscience, which is said to be God’s presence only.

Fool · Apr 9, 2019

atanu said:
Luke 17.20-24
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is within' you.”

As per some Christians, God could not be within the Pharisees (because elsewhere in Bible they were described as impure). And so they translate 'entos' as 'midst', leading to non-sensical the kingdom of God is in the 'midst' of you. This would render the God and His Kingdom temporal.

What is the general and Christian understanding?

...

the general consensus is that god is otherwise than self, or any self for that matter. they ignore the idea that it is something within in them and look for it outside/apart from self. the look to the clouds in heaven and not to the thoughts of their own minds.

the idea that pure can come from impure reminds me of kalki, the transformer of filth into light.

so then the son of man descends into matter and raises the son of man up like nehushtan, like light.

Matthew 6:22 - 23
“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

when things become tempered they become golden, shimmering.

Is God within or was merely in midst of the Pharisees?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

9-18-1

Active Member

atanu

Member

blü 2

Veteran Member

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

atanu

Member

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

sooda

Veteran Member

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member

atanu

Member

Fool

ALL in all