Capitalism has serious issues. Christianity has serious issues. As an individual, I'm free to criticize all of them, and I do. It doesn't take any gall at all.
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Supporting Muslims as members of our communities
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
Capitalism has serious issues. Christianity has serious issues. As an individual, I'm free to criticize all of them, and I do. It doesn't take any gall at all.
I am no hindutva fundamentalist. May I request your opinion on the following.
2019 Pulwama attack - Wikipedia
Earthling
David Henson
Capitalism has serious issues. Christianity has serious issues. As an individual, I'm free to criticize all of them, and I do. It doesn't take any gall at all.
Oh, please, I'm all with you when you criticize, it's only when you start to insist upon reform, especially in accordance with social mores of the time that I say "Hold on there, fellow!"
Oh, please, I'm all with you when you criticize, it's only when you start to insist upon reform, especially in accordance with social mores of the time that I say "Hold on there, fellow!"
We live in serious times, and these are serious issues. I wish the world wasn't so violent and fragile. But it is, and every day people are suffering from these bad ideas in Islam. So I'm not going to "hold on". Western ideas aren't perfect, but they are the best we have, and we don't have a lot of time to let things play out without intervention.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
It was slightly misogynistic, but Buddha accepted 'Bhikkhunis' later. It is not theocratic. It is not anti-anything. India did not have much contacts with Semites at that time, so no question of being anti-Semitic. It is not homophobic.
Even Eastern ideas are good. Here in India, we have/always had people from all religions living together peacefully. Islamic extremism is comparatively a new thing here. So, why limit good ideas only to West?
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Earthling
David Henson
Oh, yes . . . the Westerners need to kick up world domination yet another notch so those infidels can stop suffering from their bad ideas. Unless . . . of course they get fed up with us and start fighting back. Start bombing our cities and killing our children. Then you might wake the hell up.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Of course they aren't. They're just a very influential group of political leaders who happen to be mostly from Muslim-majority countries banding together to exert their religious beliefs on others.
The OIC has in the past attempted to have the UN pass what amounts to a global blasphemy law; banning criticism of Islam.
Oh, please, I'm all with you when you criticize, it's only when you start to insist upon reform, especially in accordance with social mores of the time that I say "Hold on there, fellow!"
Could you please tell us why you're so insistent people should not be allowed to voice the opinion that a religion you probably view as false anyway should be subject to reform?
I'm not at all - personally, I'm positively influenced by Buddhism and Taoism.
Earthling
David Henson
I thought that I had made that painfully obvious. Everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion. If you think Islam is dangerous, by all means, shout it from the rooftops. But don't call out for their reform because it's all subjective, and someone will make the same judgement on you. If we expect to be allowed to voice an opinion then why shouldn't they be allowed the same?
So, maybe you need the reforming, huh? How do you like that? Let's see . . . where should we start. Well, Jehovah God is going to destroy the United Nations, who will first destroy false religion, or the Harlot, Babylon the Great. So . . . where do we fit in?
Revelation 17:12-13, Revelation 17:16
Who said I had a problem with legitimate criticism? I'm not referring to that.
I'm not threatened by Islam. I live in America in a city with a large Muslim population. They don't bother me or others. The problem where I live are fundie Christians pushing their religion on everyone. This is the Midwest, after all, if you're familiar with it. It's similar to the American South. There's tons of them just on this board and they outnumber the Muslim posters here. Are there lots of Muslims who threaten your peace where you live?
Firemorphic
Activist Membrane
What have I got to defend? I'm trying to understand what your condemning and why you think this vague object of discussion needs a forced reformation. Again, you speak in the most vaguest terms with the largest broad strokes that you could be discussing anything.
Sure, I wouldn't disagree with that.
To rewrite my post again:
Reform who? and who's Islam? from what? and to what? You speak on vague authoritative terms that could be applied to anything someone doesn't like.
I appreciate you finally saying this. It means there is no point in discussing any aspect of morality with you, because moral relativism is fundamentally an unfalsifiable stance.
Earthling
David Henson
Okay. Good luck with reforming the Muslims then.
It's the ideas, not the people.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Oh, please, I'm all with you when you criticize, it's only when you start to insist upon reform, especially in accordance with social mores of the time that I say "Hold on there, fellow!"
Is there a better standard than current social mores which are significantly more enlightened than the social mores of 2 millennia ago captured in scripture?
I don't follow. You're telling me that people should be allowed to voice their opinion but you don't want people voicing the opinion that a backward religion should reform? Do you want people to voice their opinions or don't you?
Also, why should the fact that other people will make the same claim on us prevent us from calling for other faiths to reform and become more civilised?
Am I supposed to be bothered by this? You can call for my religion to reform all you want and I won't once raise a complaint about it, unlike you. You've got the problem of finding a centralised dogma all Hellenists follow that needs to be reformed, so good luck there. That aside, the fact remains Hellenism is significantly more benign than Islam is. Or the dogma of the Watchtower, for that matter.
Also you subscribe moral authority to an organisation that covers up child abuse while defending from criticism a religion that encourages the mutilation and murder of those accused of 'blasphemy' or apostasy. You're not exactly on the moral high ground here.
I don't hold your scripture to have any weight so this is about as effective as me threatening/warning you with anything based on the Lord of the Rings. You're also one of a deliriously large number of denominations, sects & cults that believes it has the One True Way so odds are you'll be part of this 'false religion' you keep saying will be destroyed.
Preaching is against forum rules, so be careful
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
That's great. Honestly!
But what about the many other LGBT who are threatened by Islam? What about LGBT Muslims in Islamic countries who risk imprisonment or even murder for their sexuality? What about gay Chechens who have been subjected to concentration camps for the past couple of years? What about LGBTs (including LGBT Muslims) in England who are threatened with erasure because homophobic Muslims are afraid they won't be able to indoctrinate their kids to hate if they learn gay people exist - and are actively campaigning to stop equality lessons being taught in schools?
sooda
Veteran Member
Saudi Arabia: 425 cases of sex-reassignment in 27 years | ILGA
The International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association | ILGAsaudi-arabia-425-cases-of-sex-reassignment-in-27...
1- In Saudi Arabia, only intersex individuals are allowed to undergo sex-reassignment process. According to a decree by the Saudi Ministry of Health -issued in May 2011-, all hospitals and medical centers can only perform sex-correction precedes only after the cases are confirmed by the "Medical Treatment Office" of the Health Ministry.
I hope those situations change and saner religious interpretations prevail.