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A New Dark Age For Europe

Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
Notanumber said:
I heard that he did some disgusting things to her before the marriage was consummated.
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He fits the description of your typical warlord, slave owning conquorer. No doubt an aggressively immoral person like Mohammad would have.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
shmogie said:
What do you call marrying a 6 year old girl, Aisha, and having sex with her at 9 years of age ?

Do you need a citation for this ? Or, do you already know it ??
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Its been posted repeatedly. Aisha was born before the Call.
 
Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
shmogie said:
google it, 3 seconds
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Support your own arguments.

Or don't. I don't mind. But I'm not doing your homework for you, and I'm happy to assume that when you don't provide sources for your claims, it's because you can't.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
shmogie said:
To the liberal muslim apologists, of which we have some here, what is posted either is not believed, or is excused for some reason. Reality does not fit their concocted narrative.

They are entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.
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How ironic.
 
Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
shmogie said:
That is pure drivel.

Free speech, means exactly that, those who don´t like it don´t have to listen.

Your concept is just an excuse to muzzle someone whose words are not liked by the majority, or the government.

The American revolution was based in part because of this idea. The British government wanted to shut up the American Founders because they didn´t like their speech.

Free speech denied some, is free speech for none.
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More irony, considering your whole involvement in the thread seems built around the central idea that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to express their beliefs.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Muslims reject the doctrine of original sin and cannot accept that death ensured; it was a natural process built into creation (23:14-16).

They may even quote the Bible that people are responsible for their own deeds: “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness the wicked will be upon himself” (Ezekiel 18:20).

They reason it would be unjust for God to punish all humanity because of Adam’s deed. Sin is not hereditary and no one born a sinner.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Kangaroo Feathers said:
I realise it was a bit of an obscure part of the Bible, so maybe you missed it, but there was this thing called the Crucifiction...
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Original sin would have been mentioned in Genesis or somewhere in the Old Testament. .. but Jews don't believe in original sin and neither did Christians until the 4th century AD.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
When you say the Qur'an is lying, is that from your view as a christian? or as a person who have the knowledge of what the qur'an actually meaning?
Because if i read the bible one time, i get one understanding, if i read the bible ten time very deeply verse by verse, the knowledge/wisdom will be different, more clear,
That is exactly the same with the qur'an, or the buddhist suttas or the torah.

What i mean is, if you study the religious texts ans want to find what you consider to be false or wrong, you will find it, because there are parts in all the religious texts (that i have read) that contain contradiction. in one verse one thing is said, in an other verse it say differnt. I think this means, think for you self and deside what is the most moral way to do a thing.

We do need the teachings in texts, But we should not follow them blindly, but use it as a guideline for our own life.

Many years ago i was one of the persons who made critique of others religion, until i realised that, that was not a true path to take, because when i looked at my self, i was just like everybody else, i made mistakes but learned from it, and now i dont see wrong in religions, but i see the wrong doing people do. Yes it is always the person who do wrong, not the spiritual/reigious texts.

As spiritual people we need to use our mind to understand how to behave toward others, if we do not behave good we will experience suffering
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I said the Qu'ran promotes lying and deceiving.

The Bible does not promotes lying and deceiving.
As it is written in the book of
Exodus 20:16--"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

That means can not lie and deceive.

Now as for the Qu'ran
According to the Qu'ran, Allah is the "best of deceivers" (3:54; 8:30). The phrase is often translated into English as "best of planners," "best of schemers," or "best of plotters," but the root word (makr) means "deception." Hence, the following Qur'an verses should be rendered as follows:

Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.

The Quran describes Allah as the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not above using the same evil and wicked schemes of his opponents.

For example, the Quran calls Allah a makr, in fact the best makr there is:

But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroowamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30

Other texts that identify Allah as a makrinclude:

Are they then secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99

So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50

The word for deception/deceiver/scheme is makr.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
sooda said:
Original sin would have been mentioned in Genesis or somewhere in the Old Testament. .. but Jews don't believe in original sin and neither did Christians until the 4th century AD.
Click to expand...
Well exegesis is a thing. You asked, I answered. You don't have to agree with me. You're welcome to be Sola Scriptura if you are so moved. I'm not, though.
 
Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Faithofchristian said:
I said the Qu'ran promotes lying and deceiving.
I say it, as in reading the what the Qu'ran does say.
The Bible does not promotes lying and deceiving.
As it is written in the book of
Exodus 20:16--"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

That means can not lie and deceive.

Now as for the Qu'ran
According to the Qu'ran, Allah is the "best of deceivers" (3:54; 8:30). The phrase is often translated into English as "best of planners," "best of schemers," or "best of plotters," but the root word (makr) means "deception." Hence, the following Qur'an verses should be rendered as follows:

Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.
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Are those cherries for a pie or what? Here's a few more you might like to consider;

No, God cannot and does not lie.
Numbers 23:19
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1 Samuel 15:29
And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he [is] not a man, that he should repent.

2 Samuel 7:28
And now, O Lord GOD, thou [art] that God, and thy words be true, and thou hast promised this goodness unto thy servant:

Psalm 119:160
Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Yes, God lies by proxy; He sends prophets or lying spirits to deceive.
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Landon Caeli said:
Why did Jesus get baptized then by John?
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Jesus wasn't exactly "baptized" in the way Christians look at baptism.. It was Jewish ritual purity.. I can't remember what that is called.

Mikva or Mikveh.. Its a ritual bath that sanctifies I think.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Muhammad minced no words about the necessity of telling the truth: “It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavors to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps telling lies and endeavors to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah.”

In Islam, the Prophet Muhammad allowed for three (and only three) exceptions to the rule of truth-telling:

Lying is not permitted except in three cases: (1) a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; (2) lying at times of war; (3) and lying in order to reconcile between people.
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
sooda said:
Jesus wasn't exactly "baptized" in the way Christians look at baptism.. It was Jewish ritual purity.. I can't remember what that is called.

Mikva or Mikveh.. Its a ritual bath that sanctifies I think.
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But John the Baptist was a prophet himself. So his Baptism of Jesus was not a continuation of something earlier, as prophets are considered "messengers" from God.

Jesus declared John a prophet in Matthew 11:9-11
 
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