This.
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Birmingham Muslims pull their kids out of LGBT-inclusive lessons
- Thread starter The Emperor of Mankind
- Start date
This.
Not all Muslims are quite so homophobic though.
Not all Muslims take such a literal understanding of their books.
And there is such a thing as an LGBTQI+ Muslim.
You appear to be assuming that all Muslims are immigrants..
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Of course not all, but what do you suppose the proportions are among those crying about these courses?
Notanumber
A Free Man
Islam tends to get whatever it expects.
I'd wager a fair number were born and bred here (albeit of immigrant 'stock').
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
This is true but I'd say that's in spite of Islam, not because of it.
They're some of the people who are and will be the worst affected by the homophobia and erasure being put forth by these Muslims. This is what happens when people prioritise their religious dogma over their childrens' well-being. Some of the kids attending (or, rather, not attending) these lessons might even turn out to be LGBT. But their parents don't care about that; they only care that their religion is protected and their standing in the community is not undermined by the 'shame' of having a gay child.
To me, Islam is not just what is found in books, but more importantly in the attitudes, beliefs, practices, and lived experiences of Muslims. This means that homophobia is a part of Islam, but so too is the opposite of it, and we shouldn't discount those Muslims who are both proud of their faith and identify as LGBTQI+. Islam, like any other lived religion, isn't one thing and is in a constant state of flux.
Notanumber
A Free Man
According to this, the irony is that this culture of anti-homosexuality hasn’t always been the case for Muslims. There’s also a rich history of gender variance and homosexuality within Islam but it’s all been wiped out by colonialism and sidelined in history.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/parkfield-community-school-gay-muslims-cant-pray-gay-away/
It seems that many of Islam’s followers do not understand their religion.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/parkfield-community-school-gay-muslims-cant-pray-gay-away/
It seems that many of Islam’s followers do not understand their religion.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I did not expect you to come out with a post like this. You've made an excellent point.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
No, definitely not. Discounting LGBT Muslims is tantamount to erasure. But let's be real: it's not realistic for us to pretend they're anything other than a tiny minority of a minority. And the only places they have a realistic chance to thrive openly as LGBT Muslims is in liberal Western democracies. If they try that in any Muslim-majority or Islamic country and they'll shortly find themselves on the receiving end of some very strong Islamic homophobia.
Even in countries like the UK (as we've seen) they're subject to erasure and ostracism from not just their religious community but their immediate family.
If we're going by the actions of Muslims and their actions as well as the doctrine itself, I think it's fair to say that overall homophobia is the overriding trend of Islam & Muslims.
I can even put a number to that sentiment: "52% of British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegalised" - Guardian
That was 2 years ago but it was in the UK.
I agree that it's a real problem. I identify as genderqueer and polysexual, but I don't have the strength to come out within my community. But Islam is always changing, and it still has to go through the same enlightenment that Christianity has been through.
Notanumber
A Free Man
I respect your point of view but I cannot agree with you when you say that Islam is always changing.
Islam is immutable.
"Immutable" is an awfully strong word.
I made a point of getting to know the Muslims in a nearby mosque. One thing I heard variations on many many times was "I prefer living in secular USA, because here I can be Muslim the way I think I should. Instead of having the authorities tell me how to be Muslim."
That said, I do think that the fundamental problem with Muslim culture is the inherent conservatism.
That tends to encourage adherents to stay with primitive ethics and science long after more sophisticated, better, versions.
Tom
You've contradicted yourself. You yourself (surprisingly) pointed out that Islam had more acceptance of homosexuality and transgenderism before Western colonialism made those things taboo but not now you say it's immutable, when it's obviously changed at least once before. You can't have it both ways. No religion is unchanging in how it followers apply it.
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You sound like one of the more traditionally-minded Muslims lol. Islam has changed throughout its history. And not all Muslims are so traditionally-minded.
Notanumber
A Free Man
It stands to reason that some Muslims must have become westernised and liberal, but Islam is the same old same old.
You only need to look at the OP to see that.
There has always been variation in Muslim thought - you only have to look at the multiplicity of sects that have sprung up throughout Islam's history - this variation has not come about solely through contact with modern-day Western civilisation and liberal ideas. You seem to draw a distinction between Muslims and Islam. For me, the two are inseparable - there is no Islam without the Muslims who live and breathe Islam in its many different facets. More liberally-minded or heterodox Muslims are just as much a part of Islam as the more traditionally-minded Muslims.
Notanumber
A Free Man
I cannot countenance that all westernised Muslims believe in the true Islam. The two are incompatible.
Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
What is a westernised Muslim? And is there a difference between a westernised and Western Muslim?