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Why did Obama have such a poor record regarding religious persecution in the world

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Yes... I believe whoever was in office was going to catch Osama.
Why do you think this?
Bush II was in office for 7 years after 9/11.
He didn't manage it.

I believe that Bush II was too beholden to the oil companies. He couldn't afford to upset Osama's conservative Muslim brethren, because it was bad for his business. Obama didn't have that problem, and got the job done.
Tom

ETA. @esmith , was getting Osama bin Laden part of the 97+% of Obama policies that you oppose?
 
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esmith

Veteran Member
ETA. @esmith , was getting Osama bin Laden part of the 97+% of Obama policies that you oppose?
Obama did not get Osama, the intelligence obtained from many sources allowed a covert operation to take out Osama. Saying Obama got Osama is like saying that President Roosevelt and President Truman took out the Imperial Japanese of WWII.
I have no problems with Obama giving the go to take out Osama, just as I have no problem with President Truman giving the go to drop the atomic bombs on two Japanese cities.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Obama did not get Osama, the intelligence obtained from many sources allowed a covert operation to take out Osama. Saying Obama got Osama is like saying that President Roosevelt and President Truman took out the Imperial Japanese of WWII.
I have no problems with Obama giving the go to take out Osama, just as I have no problem with President Truman giving the go to drop the atomic bombs on two Japanese cities.

Yes, President Roosevelt was Commander in Chief that determined the course of WWII, Truman just followed up what was already in the plans, and Obama was the Commander in Chief when Osama was taken down. Yes, Bush was Commander in Chief when his policies allowed ISIS to become the largest military force in Iraq, and yes he failed to take down Osama.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I disagree...

What did Obama actually do to stop ISIS?

First President Obama inherited a disaster from Bush with ISIS as the largest military force in Iraq, and apparently you do not read up on what followed:

From: Obama Announces Strategy to Destroy ISIS

President Barack Obama wants the approval of Congress as he announces a broad new air war against ISIS, including strikes in Syria, but says he already has the authority he needs.üüIn a speech outlining a new strategy to destroy the group also known as ISIL or the Islamic State, Obama announced an extensive air campaign with no set end date, and plans to rely on others to engage in a ground war — Iraqi forces in Iraq, and Syrian moderates in Syria.üü“I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: if you threaten America, you will find no safe haven,” Obama said.

. . . and he launched an intensive covert campaign to capture and/or kill Osama, which was successful.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
@whirlingmerc

A large number of those killed in the 9/11 attacks were innocent American christians - right? - murdered right here in America - forget elsewhere

GWB was the president at the time - he continued to be for 7 years later

The majority of the attackers were Saudi Arabian citizens

Saudi Arabia funds and sponsors the wahabi brand of islam - the one that is blamed for the majority of the radicalization of the disaffected youth today

What did GWB or Trump do against Saudi Arabia?

I shall accept for purposes of this discussion that Obama did little or nothing

I accept for discussion that none of the president in recent history have dealt effectively with Saudi Arabia, and now we have Trump with extreme pandering of the Saudis as his personal friends.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Yes, President Roosevelt was Commander in Chief that determined the course of WWII, Truman just followed up what was already in the plans, and Obama was the Commander in Chief when Osama was taken down. Yes, Bush was Commander in Chief when his policies allowed ISIS to become the largest military force in Iraq, and yes he failed to take down Osama.

First President Obama inherited a disaster from Bush with ISIS as the largest military force in Iraq, and apparently you do not read up on what followed:

From: Obama Announces Strategy to Destroy ISIS

President Barack Obama wants the approval of Congress as he announces a broad new air war against ISIS, including strikes in Syria, but says he already has the authority he needs.üüIn a speech outlining a new strategy to destroy the group also known as ISIL or the Islamic State, Obama announced an extensive air campaign with no set end date, and plans to rely on others to engage in a ground war — Iraqi forces in Iraq, and Syrian moderates in Syria.üü“I have made it clear that we will hunt down terrorists who threaten our country, wherever they are. That means I will not hesitate to take action against ISIL in Syria, as well as Iraq. This is a core principle of my presidency: if you threaten America, you will find no safe haven,” Obama said.

. . . and he launched an intensive covert campaign to capture and/or kill Osama, which was successful.
Ah,another gum flapper.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Well yes, Trump not only selected Pence, but his entire cabinet is dominated by fundamentalist Christians as reward for electing him, and ah . . . FOX employesss. This has nothing to with the rate of persecution of Christinas in the world. I cited a reference that it has increased. You nor anyone else here can document any policy of the Trump administration that effects the persecution of Christians abroad, but nonetheless Trumps statements has resulted to increased violence against Jews, Moslems, and other minorities in the USA.

The Trump administration did pressure the Turkish government to free Christian pastor Andrew Brunson from imprisonment in Turkey. ...:) ,,,The Trump administration also secured the release of Christian missionary Kim Hak-Song from North Korea. ...:)

These are a couple of specific examples how the Trump administration has ended persecution of Christians abroad.
 
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Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Ah,another gum flapper.
Inconvenient facts? Just add some all new and improved Well Poison! Well Poison! When no other argument* will do! Buy some today! Absolutely GUARANTEED** to make the bad, mean old critical thinkers with their fact based arguments go away!

Available where all good logical fallacies are sold!






*caution: not an actual argument. Do not use as a basis for either government or personal policy, do not take orally, do not use if pregnant or breastfeeding. Do not use if a child, pre-teen, teenager, young adult, old adult or already dead.

**caution: Not an actual guarantee.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The Trump administration did pressure the Turkish government to free Christian pastor Andrew Brunson from imprisonment in Turkey. ...:) ,,,The Trump administration also secured the release of Christian missionary Kim Hak-Song from North Korea. ...:)

These are a couple of specific examples how the Trump administration has ended persecution of Christians abroad.

This reflects individuals and not a policy or change that effects persecution of Christians abroad.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Of course, I'm not assuming Trump actually cares more about Christianity or Judaism than how much President Obama did so; However, Trump has made symbolic gestures supporting Christianity like appointing a deeply devout Christian as V.P. and moving the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. At least Trump pretends to care about Christianity in order to gain their much needed Christian political support, which President Obama didn't require so much.

Basically, you're happy with a President who furthers a Christian agenda, regardless of personal belief and actions.
Is that accurate?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
A few Christians spared from religious persecution is better than none. ...:)

Not the subject in question concerning the difference in the policies and actions of recent presidents concerning the international policies that concern the persecution of religions and minorities.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Not the subject in question concerning the difference in the policies and actions of recent presidents concerning the international policies that concern the persecution of religions and minorities.

Trump's threat of tariffs or economic sanctions against Turkey did save somebody from religious persecution, and Trump's skilled diplomacy with North Korea did spare somebody from religious persecution. Please let's at least give him some of the credit he deserves for this. ...;)
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Trump's threat of tariffs or economic sanctions against Turkey did save somebody from religious persecution, and Trump's skilled diplomacy with North Korea did spare somebody from religious persecution. Please let's at least give him some of the credit he deserves for this. ...;)

I have no problem with giving credit where credit is due, but I do not advocate Demonizing Obama to justify a personal nor religious agenda.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Another opinion has it that he was played by North Korea to gain legitimacy for domestic consumption - they got what they wanted without conceding anything substantial - that poor kid that was released died soon after he came home.

"Waving their hands and flashing peace signs, the freed prisoners — Kim Dong-chul, Tony Kim and Kim Hak-song — descended the stairs of their plane, flanked by the president and senior administration officials, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who had flown to Pyongyang, the North’s capital, to secure their release."

Trump Greets 3 American Detainees Freed From North Korea
 
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