The City of Enoch

The Anointed · Mar 24, 2019

sooda said:
Ireland was NEVER flooded.. and there was no Ur of the Chaldeans until 900 years AFTER Abraham.

Facts are facts.. You can't get away with vague anymore.

Ireland was farming and raising wild pigs by 2300 BC. Read up on Neolithic and Bronze Age Ireland.. There's LOTS of stuff preserved in the peat bogs and lots of ancient man made stone ruins.

The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing disintegrating comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen’s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie’s words, 2345 BC ‘is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds’.

Marie-Agnès Courty is a French geologist of the CNRS who works at the European Centre for Prehistoric Research, in Tautavel (Pyrénées-Orientales). [1] [2] She has theorised that the impact of an object (asteroid or comet) of around 1 km in diameter hit the Earth, in the Southern Hemisphere close to the Kerguelen Islands around 4000 years ago (around 2350 BC).

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
So ......how did Cain find a wife???????

Thief said:
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

Thief said:
who was Cain afraid of????

Genesis 5:3
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.

Genesis 5:4
After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

Genesis 5:6
When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of Enosh.

Genesis 5:7
After he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters.

They have longer lives in the good old days.
There was no pollution and every thing was fresh.
And the Lord God permitted that they lived long, fertile and produced many many children
But I believe, they had only one wife. Adam with Eve; Enosh with his wife.
To populate the world with no problems with the gene pool
Even they married each other's siblings.
So if Adam lived 800 years maybe he had 400 sons and 400 daughters
Seth {brother of Abel and Cain] would have a proportional number of sons and daughters too.
There was no mention of how long Cain lived but I bet he had sons and daughter too.
and in their ages of maturity would have populated the Earth in a jiffy.

With regards to the mark, it was a protection for him.
It is more like a sort of "immunity"
The Lord God cursed Cain that what ever he do on the ground, it will yield nothing.

Genesis 4:10-15 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

This video is interesting.
In the point of view of science.

Kangaroo Feathers · Mar 25, 2019

The Anointed said:
may have been a local event around Ireland

New one on me.

sooda · Mar 25, 2019

The Anointed said:
The major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland, which spewed out massive amounts of larva, coupled with a close encounter with a passing disintegrating comet and a Tunguska like fireball, are believed to have been major issues in the inundation of Ireland that is said to have been left waste for 30 odd years, and the devastating flood around the Mediterranean Sea, which was the known civilized world in the days of Noah around 2350 B.C, the time when this catastrophic event is said to have occurred.

. Marie-Agnes Courty (CNRS, Grignon) presented new archaeological data concerning a catastrophe inferred to have occurred in the Middle East c.2350 BC. She emphasized the importance of high-time-resolution archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes on societal collapse, the data in this case indicating the combination of a burnt surface horizon and air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball, but possibly also a major volcanic event.

The evidence for regional environmental change at about the same time was confirmed and extended by Mike Baillie (Queen’s University Belfast), whose tree-ring analyses of Irish bog oaks showed very significant narrowing of the rings around the year 2345 BC, associated with identified tephra from the Icelandic Hekla 4 volcano, dated to 2310 +/- 20 BC. This suggests a volcanic origin of the c. 2350 BC event identified by Courty, but the period in question is also associated with other events, including floods, the creation of new lakes and even the traditional start of Chinese history! In Baillie’s words, 2345 BC ‘is a classic marker date, i.e. a date which will show up on a regular basis in studies of various kinds’.

Marie-Agnès Courty is a French geologist of the CNRS who works at the European Centre for Prehistoric Research, in Tautavel (Pyrénées-Orientales). [1] [2] She has theorised that the impact of an object (asteroid or comet) of around 1 km in diameter hit the Earth, in the Southern Hemisphere close to the Kerguelen Islands around 4000 years ago (around 2350 BC).

Hekla has erupted 20 times just since 800 AD.. Its very active.. but Ireland NEVER flooded. Read about the Neolithic and Bronze Age in Ireland.

Thief · Mar 25, 2019

MJFlores said:
When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.

Cain had been banished and put to wandering.....BEFORE......Seth

to the later part of Chapter Four a list of names
none of which are given as sons or daughters of Adam

there is mention of work.....brass and iron
skilled craft....musical instruments
developed life style......tent dwelling and herding of cattle

these things indicate interaction with people already up and moving
as community
as a people of means and methods

Cain took a wife
she was NOT his sister
NOT a daughter of immediate family

BilliardsBall · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
please correct me if I mispost......

Cain killed Abel....
went off to wander in the land of Nod (which means to wander)
and there he took a wife......!!!!!!!!
had a son....Enoch

and built a city in his name.....Enoch

So ......how did Cain find a wife???????
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

I already have response
just wandering (hehehehehe) if you have any

and don't forget.....
God had put a mark on Cain
that Cain had feared OTHERS would do him harm for what he had done to Abel

who was Cain afraid of????

Adam and Eve could have had many, many children, genetically strong, separated in birth by up to hundreds of years (grandchildren, etc.).

The land of Eden included a closed-off Garden, and lands eastward.

Thief · Mar 25, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Adam and Eve could have had many, many children, genetically strong, separated in birth by up to hundreds of years (grandchildren, etc.).

The land of Eden included a closed-off Garden, and lands eastward.

the forbidden fruit was an event BEFORE the children of Adam and Eve

the garden had been dismantled

I read the end of Chapter One.....
Man as a species
no names, no garden, no law, no forbidden anything

Adam is a chosen son of God
Eve is a clone....not born of woman.....no navel

Cain came after the garden event

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
Cain had been banished and put to wandering.....BEFORE......Seth

to the later part of Chapter Four a list of names
none of which are given as sons or daughters of Adam

He wandered for years on years

Until one of his "sisters" grew up
He would have been in gray haired old man
Maybe a hundred years old

Thief said:
there is mention of work.....brass and iron
skilled craft....musical instruments
developed life style......tent dwelling and herding of cattle

Probably he hunted, since he loves to kill
He killed his brother Abel so killing an animal to eat is his thing.
He might have picked up fruit from fruit bearing trees.

Cain had for a wife, a sister.

Even the scientist and atheist would agree that the early Homo erectus would have been related

They have this LUCA concept - whatever that is. But I'm not buyin' that.

And since their cells are simple like the original, there are no DNA mutation.
Mutation won't be a problem until the Exodus.

sooda · Mar 25, 2019

MJFlores said:
He wandered for years on years
View attachment 27756
Until one of his "sisters" grew up
He would have been in gray haired old man
Maybe a hundred years old

Probably he hunted, since he loves to kill
He killed his brother Abel so killing an animal to eat is his thing.
He might have picked up fruit from fruit bearing trees.
View attachment 27757

Cain had for a wife, a sister.

Even the scientist and atheist would agree that the early Homo erectus would have been related

They have this LUCA concept - whatever that is. But I'm not buyin' that.

And since their cells are simple like the original, there are no DNA mutation.
Mutation won't be a problem until the Exodus.

Can was a farmer. That's why his sacrifice was rejected.

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

sooda said:
Can was a farmer. That's why his sacrifice was rejected.

He was a farmer but after the brouhaha which he killed Abel.
He ain't no farmer anymore.

Genesis 4:10-16 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Why was Abel's offering accepted and Cain's rejected?
Was it because he was a farmer?
All he can offer are veggies?

Genesis 4:3-7 New International Version (NIV)
In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

So what wasn't right about Cain's offering?
Cain bought some - it wasn't the best, it wasn't right.
Abel bought the fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock - that was the best.
So this event has a moral lesson and this is what the Bible says:

1 John 3:12 New International Version (NIV)
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.

sooda · Mar 25, 2019

MJFlores said:
He was a farmer but after the brouhaha which he killed Abel.
He ain't no farmer anymore.
View attachment 27758

Genesis 4:10-16 New International Version (NIV)
The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

View attachment 27759
Why was Abel's offering accepted and Cain's rejected?
Was it because he was a farmer?
All he can offer are veggies?

Genesis 4:3-7 New International Version (NIV)
In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

So what wasn't right about Cain's offering?
Cain bought some - it wasn't the best, it wasn't right.
Abel bought the fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock - that was the best.
So this event has a moral lesson and this is what the Bible says:

1 John 3:12 New International Version (NIV)
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.

Except he founded a great city which means he didn't wander.. wasn't a Bedouin.

Audie · Mar 25, 2019

The Anointed said:
was burned to death

Nope girly! The flood that left Ireland desolate for some thirty years and inundated all the lands around the Mediterranean Sea, did occur around 2350 B.C. And Terah, who was the father of Abraham, and the high priest in the Chaldeen city of Ur, left that city after another of his sons, "HARAN' was burned to death while attempting to save the gods in that temple that Abraham had put to the torch, and the family then moved north into the land that is today 'Turkey' where Terah remained with his other son, 'NAHOR' until he died at the age of 205.

But do please feel free to continue with your agenda, which is your futile attempt to cast doubt on the Holy Scriptures.

There is zero (0) physical evidence of this event.

Nor do the "holy scriptures" describe what you
are talking about.

Sky Rivers · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
please correct me if I mispost......

Cain killed Abel....
went off to wander in the land of Nod (which means to wander)
and there he took a wife......!!!!!!!!
had a son....Enoch

and built a city in his name.....Enoch

So ......how did Cain find a wife???????
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

I already have response
just wandering (hehehehehe) if you have any

and don't forget.....
God had put a mark on Cain
that Cain had feared OTHERS would do him harm for what he had done to Abel

who was Cain afraid of????

Generations to follow. Remember, people lived around 900 years pre-flood.

Sky Rivers · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
so....Adam....
could well be....a CHOSEN son of God

as per new testament

1. Genesis 2 explains the creation of man in the image of the Elohim. (Plural) Genesis 3 explains the second creation of man, after a great destruction. Earth was "replenished", which is why God told Adam and Eve to go and fill (replenish) the Earth and subdue it. It's reasoned that there were still people on the Earth and they are the ones which Cain met and took a wife from.

2. Genesis 2 explains the creation of man in the image of God. Genesis 3, details that creation and expands on the details with the Eden account. God tells Adam and Eve to go be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth and subdue it. (It was wild, having thorns and thistles growing now, after the curse on the ground.)

***

I take the second position.

1. Why would the prior civilization, living on earth at the time care or even know what Cain did to his brother?

2. Considering the 900 year life span of the time, the generations of Adam, Eve, Abel, and so on, it's clear to me that Cain was concerned that those from these generations, finding him, would kill him. It doesn't make sense to me that random people, not known by Cain or having any concern of him would "find him and kill him, knowing what he had done".

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

sooda said:
Except he founded a great city which means he didn't wander.. wasn't a Bedouin.

Bedouin?
He wasn't.
But he is the wanderer.

Genesis 4:12
When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

Genesis 4:14
Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

defined: may refer to: Itinerant people, who wander from place to place with no permanent home, or are vagrant.

The Wanderer
Dion DiMucci

Oh well, I'm the type of guy who will never settle down
Where pretty girls are, well you know that I'm around
I kiss 'em and I love 'em cause to me they're all the same
I hug 'em and I squeeze 'em they don't even know my name

They call me the wanderer
Yeah, the wanderer
I roam around, around, around

Oh well, there's Flo on my left and then there's Mary on my right
And Janie is the girl well that I’ll be with tonight
And when she asks me, which one I love the best?
I tear open my shirt and I show "Rosie" on my chest

Cause I'm the wanderer
Yeah, the wanderer
I roam around, around, around

Oh well, I roam from town to town
I go through life without a care
And I'm as happy as a clown
I with my two fists of iron but I'm going nowhere

Oh yeah, I’m the type of guy that likes to roam around
I’m never in one place, I roam from town to town
And when I find myself a-fallin' for some girl

Yeah, I hop right into that car of mine and drive around the world
Yeah I'm the wanderer
Yeah, the wanderer

I roam around, around, around
Oh yeah, I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place, I roam from town to town
And when I find myself a-fallin' for some girl
I hop right into that car of mine and drive around the world

Yeah, cause I'm a wanderer
Yeah, a wanderer
I roam around, around, around, around, around, around
Cause I'm a wanderer
Yeah, a wanderer
I roam around, around, around, around, around, around, around
Cause I'm a wanderer
I'm, a wanderer
I roam around, around, around, around

Songwriters: Ernie Maresca
The Wanderer lyrics © Warner/Chappell Music, Inc

Thief · Mar 25, 2019

MJFlores said:
Cain had for a wife, a sister.

nay.....the script I keep does not point in that direction

sooda · Mar 25, 2019

Sky Rivers said:
Generations to follow. Remember, people lived around 900 years pre-flood.

LOL, 900 years.

Thief · Mar 25, 2019

sooda said:
LOL, 900 years.

the garden event ....as I see it....

was a petri dish

chosen specimen
Ideal living conditions
manipulation of the mind and body of the specimen
a test
and then release into the environment

the increases life span might be needed to perform the alteration intended

after the test.....the garden would be dismantled

the lean to longevity would dissipate with each passing generation

MJFlores · Mar 25, 2019

Thief said:
nay.....the script I keep does not point in that direction

The only direction.

The City of Enoch

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Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...

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