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A Question For Monotheists (Christians, Jews, Musims)

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Furthermore, can you make an argument specifically for the existence of Yahweh/Allah that also argues against the existence of Zeus? Why do you dismiss the arguments for the existence of Zeus as being mythology, while believing wholeheartedly that there is evidence for the existence of your particular deity? My hypothesis is that the reason is that nearly everyone in the world today disbelieves in the existence of Zeus. The belief in Zeus is no longer culturally accepted, so you were conditioned by your culture to disbelieve in Zeus, but belief in Yahweh is widespread around the world in this era, so you believe in Yahweh because it is the cultural norm to do so, even though the evidence for both of these deities is equally lacking. Had you been alive in ancient Greece, I would wager that you would have worshiped and wholeheartedly believed in Zeus. But, I'm open to hearing your arguments. I would like to see if anyone has a compelling reason as to why the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Remember, people in ancient Greece worshiped and bowed down in awe and reverence before Zeus with the same passion and fervor that you currently worship and bow down to Jesus/Yahweh/Allah.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I've found it interesting that most arguments for god presented by monotheists work just as well as arguments for at least one god... but they never seem to give any arguments for the existence of no more than one god.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Furthermore, can you make an argument specifically for the existence of Yahweh/Allah that also argues against the existence of Zeus? Why do you dismiss the arguments for the existence of Zeus as being mythology, while believing wholeheartedly that there is evidence for the existence of your particular deity? My hypothesis is that the reason is that nearly everyone in the world today disbelieves in the existence of Zeus. The belief in Zeus is no longer culturally accepted, so you were conditioned by your culture to disbelieve in Zeus, but belief in Yahweh is widespread around the world in this era, so you believe in Yahweh because it is the cultural norm to do so, even though the evidence for both of these deities is equally lacking. Had you been alive in ancient Greece, I would wager that you would have worshiped and wholeheartedly believed in Zeus. But, I'm open to hearing your arguments. I would like to see if anyone has a compelling reason as to why the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Remember, people in ancient Greece worshiped and bowed down in awe and reverence before Zeus with the same passion and fervor that you currently worship and bow down to Jesus/Yahweh/Allah.

I doubt the Greeks believed in Zeus.

Zeus was the son of the Titan's, Cronus & Rhea . Zeus slew his father with a sword that penetrated his genitals and the seed that spilled into the sea gave birth to Aphrodite. Bulfinch's Mythology is great fun to read and rather interesting but that's about it. Wonderful to have to even think of a God that murdered his father.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
I doubt the Greeks believed in Zeus.

Zeus was the son of the Titan's, Cronus & Rhea . Zeus slew his father with a sword that penetrated his genitals and the seed that spilled into the sea gave birth to Aphrodite. Bulfinch's Mythology is great fun to read and rather interesting but that's about it. Wonderful to have to even think of a God that murdered his father.
What about a Father God that murdered his son? That one sounds familiar.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
What about a Father God that murdered his son? That one sounds familiar.

The Greek gods were very flawed and human in their passions. They may have provided a national narrative, but I doubt the Greeks really believed they existed.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Greek gods were very flawed and human in their passions. They may have provided a national narrative, but I doubt the Greeks really believed they existed.
Relevantly: I thought the same thing about the Christian God until I was 12 or so and got classmates who were very religious. I was genuinely surprised.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
The Greek gods were very flawed and human in their passions. They may have provided a national narrative, but I doubt the Greeks really believed they existed.

Well, every other passage in the OT of the bible is about the god "burning with anger" about some petty nonsense. Pretty human-like behavior if you ask me.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Furthermore, can you make an argument specifically for the existence of Yahweh/Allah that also argues against the existence of Zeus? Why do you dismiss the arguments for the existence of Zeus as being mythology, while believing wholeheartedly that there is evidence for the existence of your particular deity? My hypothesis is that the reason is that nearly everyone in the world today disbelieves in the existence of Zeus. The belief in Zeus is no longer culturally accepted, so you were conditioned by your culture to disbelieve in Zeus, but belief in Yahweh is widespread around the world in this era, so you believe in Yahweh because it is the cultural norm to do so, even though the evidence for both of these deities is equally lacking. Had you been alive in ancient Greece, I would wager that you would have worshiped and wholeheartedly believed in Zeus. But, I'm open to hearing your arguments. I would like to see if anyone has a compelling reason as to why the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Remember, people in ancient Greece worshiped and bowed down in awe and reverence before Zeus with the same passion and fervor that you currently worship and bow down to Jesus/Yahweh/Allah.
I have many reasons but let's start with the obvious. Zeus the ancient lightening/thunder god of the Greeks. Why would anyone worship or believe in him anymore? He goes around in the form of a bird or something scoping out beautiful women and then he seduces them even though he's married btw to a goddess. But apparently that's not good enough for him. You seriously couldn't pick a better ancient deity than Zeus?

Then he lives on Mt. Olympas ... great. He lives on an actual mountain in Greece. I mean we couldn't just go up it to see if he's there right? Maybe it doesn't work that way but I think the whole idea of worshiping ancient Greek or Nordic or etc. gods is really stupid.

There is no comparing them with the God of the Hebrews who is described as being realistic. He's beyond all the petty nonsense that zeus is involved in. He is not interested in carnal human things; beautiful women or men do not interest him. He is described as all powerful and the Creator of everything. Zeus didn't make the world. He killed his own dad the Titan. I mean what kind of god is that?
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Furthermore, can you make an argument specifically for the existence of Yahweh/Allah that also argues against the existence of Zeus? Why do you dismiss the arguments for the existence of Zeus as being mythology, while believing wholeheartedly that there is evidence for the existence of your particular deity? My hypothesis is that the reason is that nearly everyone in the world today disbelieves in the existence of Zeus. The belief in Zeus is no longer culturally accepted, so you were conditioned by your culture to disbelieve in Zeus, but belief in Yahweh is widespread around the world in this era, so you believe in Yahweh because it is the cultural norm to do so, even though the evidence for both of these deities is equally lacking. Had you been alive in ancient Greece, I would wager that you would have worshiped and wholeheartedly believed in Zeus. But, I'm open to hearing your arguments. I would like to see if anyone has a compelling reason as to why the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Remember, people in ancient Greece worshiped and bowed down in awe and reverence before Zeus with the same passion and fervor that you currently worship and bow down to Jesus/Yahweh/Allah.

So, let’s see.

Jesus is God. OK
Yahweh is God. OK
Allah is God. OK
Zeus is God. I can’t answer, since I don’t know. But I wouldn’t say NO. If someone thinks he is God, then that is fine with me.


I think for me to understand the question and answer better, I would need to know how you define God.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I have many reasons but let's start with the obvious. Zeus the ancient lightening/thunder god of the Greeks. Why would anyone worship or believe in him anymore? He goes around in the form of a bird or something scoping out beautiful women and then he seduces them even though he's married btw to a goddess. But apparently that's not good enough for him. You seriously couldn't pick a better ancient deity than Zeus?

Any other of the thousands of man-made deities would suffice. Zeus was just one example.

Zeus didn't make the world. He killed his own dad the Titan. I mean what kind of god is that?

Yahweh killed his own son, right?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus.

In our modern age, mythology is seen as the stuff of fantasy. While Greek mythological gods are seen as figments of imaginative stories told to superstitious people, could there be an element of truth in their existence and activity in ages past?

Furthermore, can you make an argument specifically for the existence of Yahweh/Allah that also argues against the existence of Zeus? Why do you dismiss the arguments for the existence of Zeus as being mythology, while believing wholeheartedly that there is evidence for the existence of your particular deity?

From my perspective, I see the Bible as my only reliable source of truth.....but there are things written in it that correlate to many aspects of Greek mythology. The question then is....which came first? Which one is plagerizing the other by telling similar stories?

The other question to ask is...where did the Greeks get their legends from? Historians can trace all common religious beliefs back to one place....ancient Babylon. So what can we deduce from this?

My hypothesis is that the reason is that nearly everyone in the world today disbelieves in the existence of Zeus. The belief in Zeus is no longer culturally accepted, so you were conditioned by your culture to disbelieve in Zeus, but belief in Yahweh is widespread around the world in this era, so you believe in Yahweh because it is the cultural norm to do so, even though the evidence for both of these deities is equally lacking. Had you been alive in ancient Greece, I would wager that you would have worshiped and wholeheartedly believed in Zeus. But, I'm open to hearing your arguments.

If Babylon is the source of all religious beliefs (or the basis for them before a culture's particular embellishment) then we should see a common thread running through all of them. Do we?

Yes we do. The core beliefs in almost all religions is....
1) 'a multiplicity of gods'.....often with flawed characters. Often fighting among themselves.

2) belief in a spiritual realm, invisible to human eyes but where the various gods manifest their activity through nature......thunder, lightning, volcanos and earthquakes.

3) Also belief in 'an afterlife where the good are rewarded and the wicked are punished'......the names of various gods and goddesses are changed but the character remains the same. Zeus to the Greeks was Jupiter to the Romans. Ishtar was Astarte.

4) A flood legend is almost always included in these religions, perhaps with slightly altered details, but the same basic story.

In Genesis, we see the flood narrative begins with human women being taken in 'marriage' by "the sons of the true God" (Genesis 6:1-2) These were materialised rebel spirit creatures whose activities were impacting so negatively on humankind and with wickedness gaining such momentum because of the violent nature of their offspring, that the God of the Bible had to take drastic action. These gigantic bullies called the "Nephilim" (literally meaning "ones that cause others to fall") were taking human behavior to new depths of depravity and inhuman levels of violence. (Genesis 6:4-8)

God finds only one family who are not corrupted by their environment, and rather than save them in some miraculous fashion, he tells them how to save themselves and all the chosen species of animals that God would bring in. One mass destructive event would rectify the situation, save a remnant of living souls, and set a pattern for the future (Matthew 24:37-39)

Building such a massive structure was a monumental task for one small family....but Noah followed God's specific instructions to the letter in full faith that what he was told to do was worth the decades of work involved in the project. All the while Noah warned the people about what God was going to do....none responded. What is the lesson?

Can you see where the idea of gods and demi-gods came from? Materialised angels were powerful and their gigantic offspring, equally flawed in their character, were also licentious and violent. The demons are no longer able to materialise, but they are still very active in the world......sex and violence are still their trademarks.

In God's worship there are no female angels because gender Is of no use where reproduction does not take place. In the mythology of various cultures, there are many goddesses as we can assume that the materialised angels had offspring of both sexes.

Another other line of evidence for me is what happened after the flood, when humankind began to multiply and rebellion reared its ugly head again. (The flood was only to rid the earth of the consequences of demonic intervention and bring the human race back to base)

Nimrod, Noah's great grandson, began his relellion against God, by attempting to build his own empire. He built the city of Babylon and began a course in complete opposition to God's instructions to spread abroad in the earth. Nimrod and his followers began to build a huge tower "with its top in the heavens" (some believe that this was to have a place of safety to go if God ever flooded the earth again) But God confused their language and forced their exodus into other parts of the earth, taking their unique languages and their flood legends with them. (Genesis 11:1-9) This explains the common thread IMO.

I would like to see if anyone has a compelling reason as to why the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. Remember, people in ancient Greece worshiped and bowed down in awe and reverence before Zeus with the same passion and fervor that you currently worship and bow down to Jesus/Yahweh/Allah.

I don't know that anyone can provide "compelling" evidence for any belief system....but I certainly think that the Bible explains way more about the origin of these religions and their beliefs than anything else.
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
The Greek gods were very flawed and human in their passions. They may have provided a national narrative, but I doubt the Greeks really believed they existed.
Incorrect. The Greeks were a very pious people who were devoted to their gods. The Romans, as well. You seem to think that they looked up to them as moral exemplars but that's not necessarily so. The gods aren't humans and aren't subject to our ethics. Polytheistic cultures don't tend to take the stories so literally like Abrahamics do with their scriptures. These are stories that were originally folklore and collected over the centuries. There were so many different versions, anyway. Those stories develop organically. Also, many of them were written as plays and poetry.

But Zeus was the of the gods, father of the gods and mankind, and commanded the respect that is due to that station. He was viewed as humanity's protector and benefactor.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus.

Why are Zeus and Thor always cited without a single care to the way ancient Paganism actually functions? And just because their original cultures became extant, why do you suddenly see them as absurdities?
For the record, 'interaction' which such deities hasn't ceased. Just look at the whole modern Pagan and modern Occultist sub-set of modern spirituality.

Seems more like you have an axe to grind with Russell's Teapot but haven't graduated from Atheism grade #0 yet.
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus.

The first Greek to put myths in wrinting in a systematic way was Hesiod, who wrote his Theogony in the eight century B.C.E. He explains how the gods and the world began.

Scholar Jasper Griffin in the Oxford History of the Classical World says:
"Hesiod tells the story, known to Homer, of the succession of sky gods, First Uranus was supreme, but he suppressed his children, and Gaia encouraged his son Cronos to castrate him.
Cronos in turn devoured his own children, until his wife Rhea gave him a stone to eat in place of Zeus; the child Zeus was brought up in Crete, compelled his father to disgorge his siblings, with them and other aid defeated Cronos and his Titans.
From what source dit the Greeks get this strange mythology? The same author answers " its ultimate origin seems to have been Sumerian".

On the other hand Jesus said" I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (Joh 14:6)

The only way to know is to "make sure of the more important things, (Php 1:9)
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Incorrect. The Greeks were a very pious people who were devoted to their gods. The Romans, as well. You seem to think that they looked up to them as moral exemplars but that's not necessarily so. The gods aren't humans and aren't subject to our ethics. Polytheistic cultures don't tend to take the stories so literally like Abrahamics do with their scriptures. These are stories that were originally folklore and collected over the centuries. There were so many different versions, anyway. Those stories develop organically. Also, many of them were written as plays and poetry.

But Zeus was the of the gods, father of the gods and mankind, and commanded the respect that is due to that station. He was viewed as humanity's protector and benefactor.

I know .. I read the plays or poems of Sophocles and Aesculus in school.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
I am genuinely interested in what it is that has convinced you that the existence of Yahweh/Allah/Jesus is more probable than the existence of Zeus. ....

I think it is possible that Zeus existed. I have no reason to deny his existence. I would not keep him as my God, because I think he is basically like any common man.
 
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