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Judaism-Why are we hated?
- Thread starter An-D
- Start date
An-D
Member
I donno... you might have a point there. I mean, why don't they blame Hinduism or some other religion? To me, that would seem more logical because the eastern religions would have seemed more "exotic" and "strange" than Judaism, a religion western people have been intimitely living with since the creation of their own religions... And Hinduism is ruffly in the same area as the Middle East, where all three western religions were created... I'm not trying to pass on the blame to others in any way, I'm just saying you might have a point that it might be some infiriority complex or, like you said, a way of "denigrate the followers of the origin religion to make their succession seem even more obvious and amazing". It just makes me sad to know that people on the other side of the world want to see me, personally, dead. It makes me really confused to know that people all over the world think that I am the cause of illness, evils, poverty, satan, destruction... If I even see a nat stuck in the toilet water, I will take it out of the toilet and let it dry on my sink to fly away. I just don't understand how people could think that I, personally Me, cause evil... and they don't even know me, my name, or my face.
Also, to know that radical Muslims want to kill me not only because I'm Jewish, but also because I'm an American...
Also, to know that radical Muslims want to kill me not only because I'm Jewish, but also because I'm an American...
d.
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from the article :
Earliest anti-Semitism
The earliest occurrence of Anti-Semitism has been the subject of debate among scholars. Professor Peter Schafer of the Freie University of Berlin has argued that antisemitism was first spread by "the Greek retelling of ancient Egyptian prejudices". In view of the anti-Jewish writings of the Egyptian priest Manetho, Schafer suggests that anti-Semitism may have emerged "in Egypt alone".[14] The hostility commonly faced by Jews in the Diaspora has been extensively described by John M. G. Barclay of the University of Durham.[15] The ancient Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria
described an attack on Jews in Alexandria in 38 CE in Flaccus, in which thousands of Jews died. In the analysis of Pieter W. Van Der Horst, the cause of the violence in Alexandria was that Jews had been portrayed as misanthropes.[16] Gideon Bohak has argued that early animosity against Jews was not anti-Judaism unless it arose from attitudes held against Jews alone. Using this stricter definition, Bohak says that many Greeks had animosity toward any group they regarded as barbarians.[17] The 150 BCE suppression of Jewish religious practice by use of deadly force against civilians, as recounted in 1 Maccabees, then qualifies as anti-Judaism in a broader sense of the term than is used by Bohak. There are other examples of ancient animosity towards Jews that are not considered by all to fall within the definition of anti-Semitism.
[...]there are a number of passages in the New Testament that some see as anti-Semitic, or have been used for anti-Semitic purposes, most notably: Jesus speaking to a group of Pharisees:
"I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did. ... You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is you are not of God." (John 8:37-39, 44-47, RSV)
Stephen speaking before a synagogue council just before his execution: "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it." (Acts 7:51-53, RSV)
"Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you." (Revelation 3:9, RSV).
Some biblical scholars point out that Jesus and Stephen are presented as Jews speaking to other Jews, and that their use of broad accusation against Israel is borrowed from Moses and the later Jewish prophets (e.g. Deut 9:13-14; 31:27-29; 32:5, 20-21; 2 Kings 17:13-14; Is 1:4; Hos 1:9; 10:9). Jesus once calls his own disciple Peter 'Satan' (Mk 8:33). Other scholars hold that verses like these reflect the Jewish-Christian tensions that were emerging in the late first or early second century, and do not originate with Jesus. Today, nearly all Christian denominations de-emphasize verses such as these, and reject their use and misuse by anti-Semites.
Drawing from the Jewish prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:31-34), the New Testament
taught that with the death of Jesus a new covenant was established which rendered obsolete and in many respects superseded the first covenant established by Moses (Hebrews 8:7-13; Lk 22:20). Observance of the earlier covenant traditionally characterizes Judaism. This New Testament teaching, and later variations to it, are part of what is called supersessionism. However, the early Jewish followers of Jesus continued to practice circumcision and observe dietary laws, which is why the failure to observe these laws by the first Gentile Christians became a matter of controversy and dispute some years after Jesus' death (Acts 11:3; 15:1ff; 16:3).
The New Testament holds that Jesus' (Jewish) disciple Judas Iscariot (Mark14:43-46), the Roman governor Pontius Pilate along with Roman forces (John 19:11; Acts 4:27) and Jewish leaders and people of Jerusalem were (to varying degrees) responsible for the death of Jesus (Acts 13:27); Diaspora Jews are not blamed for events which were clearly outside their control.
After Jesus' death, the New Testament portrays the Jewish religious authorities in Jerusalem as hostile to Jesus' followers, and as occasionally using force against them. Stephen is executed by stoning (Acts 7:58). Before his conversion, Saul puts followers of Jesus in prison (Acts 8:3; Galatians 1:13-14; 1 Timothy 1:13). After his conversion, Saul is whipped at various times by Jewish authorities (2 Corinthians 11:24), and is accused by Jewish authorities before Roman courts (e.g., Acts 25:6-7). However, opposition from Gentiles is also cited repeatedly (2 Corinthians 11:26; Acts 16:19ff; 19:23ff). More generally, there are widespread references in the New Testament to suffering experienced by Jesus' followers at the hands of others (Romans 8:35; 1 Corinthians 4:11ff; Galatians 3:4; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; Hebrews 10:32; 1 Peter 4:16; Revelation 20:4).
continued...
Earliest anti-Semitism
The earliest occurrence of Anti-Semitism has been the subject of debate among scholars. Professor Peter Schafer of the Freie University of Berlin has argued that antisemitism was first spread by "the Greek retelling of ancient Egyptian prejudices". In view of the anti-Jewish writings of the Egyptian priest Manetho, Schafer suggests that anti-Semitism may have emerged "in Egypt alone".[14] The hostility commonly faced by Jews in the Diaspora has been extensively described by John M. G. Barclay of the University of Durham.[15] The ancient Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria
described an attack on Jews in Alexandria in 38 CE in Flaccus, in which thousands of Jews died. In the analysis of Pieter W. Van Der Horst, the cause of the violence in Alexandria was that Jews had been portrayed as misanthropes.[16] Gideon Bohak has argued that early animosity against Jews was not anti-Judaism unless it arose from attitudes held against Jews alone. Using this stricter definition, Bohak says that many Greeks had animosity toward any group they regarded as barbarians.[17] The 150 BCE suppression of Jewish religious practice by use of deadly force against civilians, as recounted in 1 Maccabees, then qualifies as anti-Judaism in a broader sense of the term than is used by Bohak. There are other examples of ancient animosity towards Jews that are not considered by all to fall within the definition of anti-Semitism.
[...]there are a number of passages in the New Testament that some see as anti-Semitic, or have been used for anti-Semitic purposes, most notably: Jesus speaking to a group of Pharisees:
"I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you. I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. They answered him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you were Abraham's children, you would do what Abraham did. ... You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But, because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is you are not of God." (John 8:37-39, 44-47, RSV)
Stephen speaking before a synagogue council just before his execution: "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it." (Acts 7:51-53, RSV)
"Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and learn that I have loved you." (Revelation 3:9, RSV).
Some biblical scholars point out that Jesus and Stephen are presented as Jews speaking to other Jews, and that their use of broad accusation against Israel is borrowed from Moses and the later Jewish prophets (e.g. Deut 9:13-14; 31:27-29; 32:5, 20-21; 2 Kings 17:13-14; Is 1:4; Hos 1:9; 10:9). Jesus once calls his own disciple Peter 'Satan' (Mk 8:33). Other scholars hold that verses like these reflect the Jewish-Christian tensions that were emerging in the late first or early second century, and do not originate with Jesus. Today, nearly all Christian denominations de-emphasize verses such as these, and reject their use and misuse by anti-Semites.
Drawing from the Jewish prophet Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:31-34), the New Testament
taught that with the death of Jesus a new covenant was established which rendered obsolete and in many respects superseded the first covenant established by Moses (Hebrews 8:7-13; Lk 22:20). Observance of the earlier covenant traditionally characterizes Judaism. This New Testament teaching, and later variations to it, are part of what is called supersessionism. However, the early Jewish followers of Jesus continued to practice circumcision and observe dietary laws, which is why the failure to observe these laws by the first Gentile Christians became a matter of controversy and dispute some years after Jesus' death (Acts 11:3; 15:1ff; 16:3).
The New Testament holds that Jesus' (Jewish) disciple Judas Iscariot (Mark14:43-46), the Roman governor Pontius Pilate along with Roman forces (John 19:11; Acts 4:27) and Jewish leaders and people of Jerusalem were (to varying degrees) responsible for the death of Jesus (Acts 13:27); Diaspora Jews are not blamed for events which were clearly outside their control.
After Jesus' death, the New Testament portrays the Jewish religious authorities in Jerusalem as hostile to Jesus' followers, and as occasionally using force against them. Stephen is executed by stoning (Acts 7:58). Before his conversion, Saul puts followers of Jesus in prison (Acts 8:3; Galatians 1:13-14; 1 Timothy 1:13). After his conversion, Saul is whipped at various times by Jewish authorities (2 Corinthians 11:24), and is accused by Jewish authorities before Roman courts (e.g., Acts 25:6-7). However, opposition from Gentiles is also cited repeatedly (2 Corinthians 11:26; Acts 16:19ff; 19:23ff). More generally, there are widespread references in the New Testament to suffering experienced by Jesus' followers at the hands of others (Romans 8:35; 1 Corinthians 4:11ff; Galatians 3:4; 2 Thessalonians 1:5; Hebrews 10:32; 1 Peter 4:16; Revelation 20:4).
continued...
d.
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Early Christianity
A number of early and influential Church works such as the dialogues of Justin Martyr, the homilies of John Chrysostom, and the testimonies of church father Cyprian are strongly anti-Jewish.
During a discussion on the celebration of Easter during the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325, Roman emperor Constantine said,
and on it goes into the middle ages....
A number of early and influential Church works such as the dialogues of Justin Martyr, the homilies of John Chrysostom, and the testimonies of church father Cyprian are strongly anti-Jewish.
During a discussion on the celebration of Easter during the First Council of Nicaea in AD 325, Roman emperor Constantine said,
...it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy feast we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. (...) Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way.[18]
Prejudice against Jews in the Roman Empire was formalized in 438, when the Code of Theodosius II established Roman Catholic Christianity as the only legal religion in the Roman Empire. The Justinian Code a century later stripped Jews of many of their rights, and Church councils throughout the sixth and seventh century, including the Council of Orleans, further enforced anti-Jewish provisions. These restrictions began as early as 305, when, in Elvira, (now Granada), a Spanish town in Andalusia, the first known laws of any church council against Jews appeared. Christian women were forbidden to marry Jews unless the Jew first converted to Catholicism. Jews were forbidden to extend hospitality to Catholics. Jews could not keep Catholic Christian concubines and were forbidden to bless the fields of Catholics. In 589, in Catholic Spain, the Third Council of Toledo ordered that children born of marriage between Jews and Catholic be baptized by force. By the Twelfth Council of Toledo (681) a policy of forced conversion of all Jews was initiated (Liber Judicum, II.2 as given in Roth).[19] Thousands fled, and thousands of others converted to Roman Catholicism.
and on it goes into the middle ages....
An-D
Member
First off, I HATE it when people feel the need to borderline insult people. Stop it. Secondly, I did do a little research. I watched a documentary that showed multiple footage of Muslim adults and children stating that they think Jews need to die and that they "come from apes and pigs". I will post the link to that documentary so that everyone can watch it. it's an hour and 15 minute long video that can be seen right off the internet. Thirdly, where's YOUR evidence of this story of God turnign Jews into pigs and apes??champion said:
d.
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An-D said:
surah 2 ('the cow')
2 : 65. And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
2 : 66. So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/2.htm
An-D
Member
Like I always say, simantics and spelling are irrelivant. I said "people", i ment "some people", you maybe thought "all people". Really, it's irrelivant what "people" exactly ment, because you understood my message... but this is irrelivant, too, so I will move on.Godlike said:
Jews didn't get rich until the late 1400's. They got rich because at that time the Church put into affect a law that stated that Christians couldn't loan money on interest. Well, of course Jews aren't Christians and so they didn't fall under this law. And the unemployed, the porr, and just regular people still needed extra money from time to time, so they had to go to the Jews to get loans cause no one else was offering loans. So this wasn't a type of beginning for anti-sematics. I believe it began in Egypt in "Exidous", when the Pharoe was killing all Jewish boys to stop the Jewish population growth. And even in the 10th to 14th century, Christians would force Jews out of their towns in belief that they caused the Black Plague and that they brought the plague to their towns. My question is where could that idea have come from?! This is a muliple century old problem and it's not getting any better.Godlike said:
Christiansd believe that they are better than anyone who's not a Christian. they believe they will go to Heaven while everyone else is going to Hell. Muslims believe that they are better than everyone else. they believe that their prophet is the last and final and most accurate prophet and those who don't follow him are not holy. Jews aren't the only ones who feel they are "God's chosen people". Every religion has the belief that they are either the best religion or they will get yuo to enlightnement/god the fastest. And if anyone wants sources sited for anything I said here, I will be more than happy to show them to you.Godlike said:
An-D
Member
"Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West" A documentary showing Muslims, adults and children, stating the Jews come from apes and pigs (and not as innocent as others in this forum have made this statement sound).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-692071627799119020&q=Obsession%3A+Radical+Islam%27s+War+Against+The+West
If this doesn't work, someone post that on thsi thread and I will post the link again.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...session:+Radical+Islam's+War+Against+The+West
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-692071627799119020&q=Obsession%3A+Radical+Islam%27s+War+Against+The+West
If this doesn't work, someone post that on thsi thread and I will post the link again.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...session:+Radical+Islam's+War+Against+The+West
An-D
Member
No, this was origionally intended for other Jews to talk to other Jews about this Jewish problem... other people felt the need to put in their 2 cents. i really wanted to discuss this issue with other Jews. I didn't want to ahve to argue and prove my viewpoint to others.Godlike said:An-D, perhaps you might want to get this thread moved from Same-Faith debates to General Religous Debates, it would help seeing as no others of the Jewish faith have responded so far. Just a suggestion...
An-D
Member
False hatered? what's false about it? If you've forgotten, I stated that this is the view of RADICAL ISLAM...so, please tell me, what's false about radical Islam's hatered on Jews? Also, i asked JEWS why PEOPLE hate jews... I didn't ask EVERYBODY on why ALL PEOPLE hate jews...champion said:
An-D
Member
champion said:
Muslim anti-Semites often appeal to several Quranic verses castigating Jews. In Suras 2:65 and 7:166 Allah says to a group of Jews, Be ye apes, despised and rejected. Muslim anti-Semites worldwide today refer to Jews as apes and pigs because of this verse and 5:60. Also, in authentic Islamic tradition there is much grounds for antagonism, such as these notorious hadiths: Allahs Apostle said, The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him (Sahih Bukhari, vol. 4, book 56, no. 2926, and many other places). Another hadith also strikes a chilling note: When judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire (Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no. 5552.).
-- So by your rational Muslims interpret the Koran in different ways? Because this seems fairly straight forward to me. If a Muslim may interpret his holy texts one way or the other, what does that say about the validity of certain Islamic laws?
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
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As this is in the "Same Faith" debates, please respect the faith that is being discussed by refraining from posting in the thread if you are not of that faith. If you are of that faith (or even just happen to be reading) and see someone of another faith posting in a thread, please let the mods know, either through PM or- more quickly- through using the 'report post' feature. We try to tackle these things as soon as we notice them, but we don't always notice them as quickly as some of our members. Thanks, all!
jewscout
Religious Zionist
i think this is a very complex issue. Most of the reasons that people give for hating jews is either 1) a misunderstanding or lack of knowledge about Judaism 2) are based on information which is an out and out lie but is believed by so many it's accepted as truth (take Protocols for example)An-D said:
much of it comes from innate brainwashing going back nearly 2000 years, first through religion and then through pseudo-sciences like "social darwinism" and concepts of racial superiority.
i think this goes hand in hand w/ the first question.
to encompass both these questions i think this link from Aish may hold some answers to the question, but, again, it's one of those topics that could be broken down into so many sub-categories
http://www.aish.com/seminars/whythejews/index.htm
And why, specifically, do radical muslims think that we come from apes and pigs?
hmmm i think this really should be addressing the origins of anti-jewish feelings in the Muslim world, specifically amongst more radical groups.
And for the record, while Islam itself may not teach that Jews come from pigs and monkeys...it doesn't mean that some muslim religious leaders aren't teaching that (which they are) irregardless of whether or not it is an accurate reflection of the meaning of the quranic verses.
Again this is another subject that can be divided and subdivided.
i'm a little busy here at the office today, so i'll have to come back to this thread to get into more details as to my own views on each of these issues, sorry.
