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The City of Enoch

Thief

Rogue Theologian
please correct me if I mispost......

Cain killed Abel....
went off to wander in the land of Nod (which means to wander)
and there he took a wife......!!!!!!!!
had a son....Enoch

and built a city in his name.....Enoch

So ......how did Cain find a wife???????
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

I already have response
just wandering (hehehehehe) if you have any

and don't forget.....
God had put a mark on Cain
that Cain had feared OTHERS would do him harm for what he had done to Abel

who was Cain afraid of????
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
please correct me if I mispost......

Cain killed Abel....
went off to wander in the land of Nod (which means to wander)
and there he took a wife......!!!!!!!!
had a son....Enoch

and built a city in his name.....Enoch

So ......how did Cain find a wife???????
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

There was more than one Enoch
this was a self centered Enoch the bad one
there was also the Enoch who walked with God and was not for god took him, the godly one
who broken the cycle of death being 7th from adam and did not die

I already have response
just wandering (hehehehehe) if you have any

and don't forget.....
God had put a mark on Cain
that Cain had feared OTHERS would do him harm for what he had done to Abel

who was Cain afraid of????


Cain married one of his sisters
Can was afraid one of his brothers would avenge the death of Abel
It doesn't matter if I know the mark of Cain just that it was understood by others of the time

(no reason to believe it was being black as sometimes claimed)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Cain married one of his sisters
Can was afraid one of his brothers would avenge the death of Abel
It doesn't matter if I know the mark of Cain just that it was understood by others of the time

(no reason to believe it was being black as sometimes claimed)
can you quote the OT?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
please correct me if I mispost......

Cain killed Abel....
went off to wander in the land of Nod (which means to wander)
and there he took a wife......!!!!!!!!
had a son....Enoch

and built a city in his name.....Enoch

So ......how did Cain find a wife???????
and what people would there be to live in the city??????

I already have response
just wandering (hehehehehe) if you have any

and don't forget.....
God had put a mark on Cain
that Cain had feared OTHERS would do him harm for what he had done to Abel

who was Cain afraid of????
Good questions.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
These are very fanciful stories. Most scholars think that the Adam and Eve story is the story of the Adamic line.. the ancestor of the Jews and that there were already other people in the world. According to the Bible the city was "pre-flood", but in reality the flood myth dates to 2900 BC Sumer..

Uruk is the type site for the Uruk period. Also known as Erech.

Uruk played a leading role in the early urbanization of Sumer in the mid-4th millennium BC. At its height c. 2900 BC, Uruk probably had 50,000–80,000 residents living in 6 km2 (2.32 sq mi) of walled area; making it the largest city in the world at the time.

The legendary king Gilgamesh, according to the chronology presented in the Sumerian king list, ruled Uruk in the 27th century BC.

The city lost its prime importance around 2000 BC, in the context of the struggle of Babylonia against Elam, but it remained inhabited throughout the Seleucid (312–63 BC) and Parthian (227 BC to 224 AD) periods until it was finally abandoned shortly before or after the Islamic conquest of 633–638.

Uruk - Wikipedia

1200px-Uruk_expansion.svg.png
 

sooda

Veteran Member
so....Adam....
could well be....a CHOSEN son of God

as per new testament

I just know that old Jewish scholars are pretty smart guys and they don't buy into the fairy tales. People did not live hundreds of years and there was no global flood, nor was there a huge Exodus. The stories may have a kernel of truth, but for the most part they are just epic teaching narratives.. and everything is exaggerated. I am convinced that's how they told stories back then... not just the Jews, but everybody.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
can you quote the OT?

Eve was claimed named that because she was to be 'the mother of all the living ' and so that rules out other people (see Genesis 3:20)

Adam could have had 30 sons and perhaps about as many daughters and there could be many people from them or their grandchildren who re may have feared reprisal. And then cam the bad Lamech... there is a good one and a bad one.. they bad one had a chip on his shoulders and into over punishing

Genesis 4:23-24
NKJV - 23 Then Lamech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech! For I have killed a man for wounding me, Even a young man for hurting me.24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.

Notice he had women from A to Z and was quite full of himself
The good Encoch Lamech Methuselah Noah were quite different
 
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The Anointed

Well-Known Member
From the book of Jubilees, 4: 1; And in the third week in the second jubilee she (EVE) gave birth to Cain, and in the fourth she gave birth to Abel, and in the fifth she gave birth to her daughter Awan. ……… 4: 9; And Cain took Awan his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
so....Adam....
could well be....a CHOSEN son of God

as per new testament
I just know that old Jewish scholars are pretty smart guys and they don't buy into the fairy tales. People did not live hundreds of years and there was no global flood, nor was there a huge Exodus. The stories may have a kernel of truth, but for the most part they are just epic teaching narratives.. and everything is exaggerated. I am convinced that's how they told stories back then... not just the Jews, but everybody.
even so.....someone had to be the first to walk with God

that would be Adam
 

sooda

Veteran Member
From the book of Jubilees, 4: 1; And in the third week in the second jubilee she (EVE) gave birth to Cain, and in the fourth she gave birth to Abel, and in the fifth she gave birth to her daughter Awan. ……… 4: 9; And Cain took Awan his sister to be his wife and she bare him Enoch at the close of the fourth jubilee.

The book of Jubilees was written in the second century B.C. in Hebrew as a summary and expansion of the book of Genesis and Exodus 1-12.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I use King James 1960

my read of Chapter One and Two of Genesis leads me to say....
Man as a species....Day Six
no names, no garden, no law, no trees to avoid
free
to dominate all things

Chapter Two is a story of selection and manipulation

there were other people round and about
but they are not part of Chapter Two until AFTER the garden is dismantled
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
These are very fanciful stories. Most scholars think that the Adam and Eve story is the story of the Adamic line.. the ancestor of the Jews and that there were already other people in the world. According to the Bible the city was "pre-flood", but in reality the flood myth dates to 2900 BC Sumer..

Uruk is the type site for the Uruk period. Also known as Erech.

Uruk played a leading role in the early urbanization of Sumer in the mid-4th millennium BC. At its height c. 2900 BC, Uruk probably had 50,000–80,000 residents living in 6 km2 (2.32 sq mi) of walled area; making it the largest city in the world at the time.

The legendary king Gilgamesh, according to the chronology presented in the Sumerian king list, ruled Uruk in the 27th century BC.

The city lost its prime importance around 2000 BC, in the context of the struggle of Babylonia against Elam, but it remained inhabited throughout the Seleucid (312–63 BC) and Parthian (227 BC to 224 AD) periods until it was finally abandoned shortly before or after the Islamic conquest of 633–638.

Uruk - Wikipedia

1200px-Uruk_expansion.svg.png

The biblical flood according to the Hebrew bible, occurred when Noah, who was born in 1050-59 AM, was 600 years old, this means that the flood occurred somewhere around 1650-59 AM which corresponds with 2350-60 B.C..

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham, may have been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and as far inland to the Euphrates and beyond, it would have been recorded as an event which had flooded their entire known world.

The people of the pre-flood days would not have known that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, nor would they have known how many continents and islands there are on this earth. Their known world was limited to the civilised world of those days.

According to the Septuagint, it was almost 900 years after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of Lot, believed that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor, and for the salvation of the human race they deemed it necessary to fall pregnant to their father, who, they believed that he would not consent. For this reason, they got him so intoxicated that he was oblivious to being raped.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising waters to the higher ground, upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

The Ark, which was a rectangular chest-like floating container built of Kopherwood, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, and Kopherwood is simply any wood that is coated with tar/bitumen. The Ark was subject to tides, currents and wind, having no means of propulsion or steerage, it was guided by the hand of the Lord.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Continued from post #13.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred over 4,000 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The biblical flood according to the Hebrew bible, occurred when Noah, who was born in 1050-59 AM, was 600 years old, this means that the flood occurred somewhere around 1650-59 AM which corresponds with 2350-60 B.C..

Although the flood story as handed down from Noah to his descendant Abraham, may have been a local event around Ireland and the coasts of the Mediterranean Sea, and as far inland to the Euphrates and beyond, it would have been recorded as an event which had flooded their entire known world.

The people of the pre-flood days would not have known that the circumference of the earth was almost 25,000 miles, nor would they have known how many continents and islands there are on this earth. Their known world was limited to the civilised world of those days.

According to the Septuagint, it was almost 900 years after the flood that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and the daughters of Lot, believed that of every man in the world, their father was the sole survivor, and for the salvation of the human race they deemed it necessary to fall pregnant to their father, who, they believed that he would not consent. For this reason, they got him so intoxicated that he was oblivious to being raped.

The animals that were taken into the ark, would have been those which were chosen from the animals that had been forced to flee from the rising waters to the higher ground, upon which Noah would have presumably built the ark, which animals would have only been those of his known world that was flooded around the year 2350 BC.

The Ark, which was a rectangular chest-like floating container built of Kopherwood, would of necessity, have to be sealed inside and out with bitumen to stop it from leaking, and Kopherwood is simply any wood that is coated with tar/bitumen. The Ark was subject to tides, currents and wind, having no means of propulsion or steerage, it was guided by the hand of the Lord.

There was no global flood. Its a silly story for children... and its based on floods in the Euphrates River Basin that ultimately built up the delta south of Basra.

The destruction of the cities of the plain happened long before the time of Abraham and Lot.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Continued from post #13.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, but who, according to the Septuagint, was born 822 years after the death of Noah, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred over 4,000 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.

Chaldea didn't exist in the time of Abraham... and neither did Ur of the Chaldeans.. Perhaps Abraham was from Urfa near Haran which did exist in that time period.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Continued from post #13.

Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred over 4,000 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.

The Chaldean people spoke Syriac which is related to Aramaic.. NOT Hebrew.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
In the Hebrew Bible, the prophet Abraham is stated to have originally come from "Ur of the Chaldees" (Ur Kaśdim).

If this city is identified with the ancient Sumerian city state of Ur, it would be within what would only many centuries later become the Chaldean homeland south of the Euphrates.

However, it must be pointed out that no evidence has been discovered indicating that the Chaldeans existed in Mesopotamia (or anywhere else in historical record) at the time Abraham (circa 1800–1700 BC) lived, the evidence instead shows the Chaldeans as arriving some eight or nine hundred years later.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
was burned to death
Chaldea didn't exist in the time of Abraham... and neither did Ur of the Chaldeans.. Perhaps Abraham was from Urfa near Haran which did exist in that time period.

Nope girly! The flood that left Ireland desolate for some thirty years and inundated all the lands around the Mediterranean Sea, did occur around 2350 B.C. And Terah, who was the father of Abraham, and the high priest in the Chaldeen city of Ur, left that city after another of his sons, "HARAN' was burned to death while attempting to save the gods in that temple that Abraham had put to the torch, and the family then moved north into the land that is today 'Turkey' where Terah remained with his other son, 'NAHOR' until he died at the age of 205.

But do please feel free to continue with your agenda, which is your futile attempt to cast doubt on the Holy Scriptures.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
was burned to death

Nope girly! The flood that left Ireland desolate for some thirty years and inundated all the lands around the Mediterranean Sea, did occur around 2350 B.C. And Terah, who was the father of Abraham, and the high priest in the Chaldeen city of Ur, left that city after another of his sons, "HARAN' was burned to death while attempting to save the gods in that temple that Abraham had put to the torch, and the family then moved north into the land that is today 'Turkey' where Terah remained with his other son, 'NAHOR' until he died at the age of 205.

But do please feel free to continue with your agenda, which is your futile attempt to cast doubt on the Holy Scriptures.

Ireland was NEVER flooded.. and there was no Ur of the Chaldeans until 900 years AFTER Abraham.

Facts are facts.. You can't get away with vague anymore.

Ireland was farming and raising wild pigs by 2300 BC. Read up on Neolithic and Bronze Age Ireland.. There's LOTS of stuff preserved in the peat bogs and lots of ancient man made stone ruins.
 
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