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Here's a Question for the Young Creationist

F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Seeing how the young Creationist believe everything was created at the time of Adam and Eve.
Now i would you to explain exactly in the book of Genesis 1:1--"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

Now in Genesis 1:2, here we will find the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Ok so far.

Now if you read from Verse 2 all the way to Verse 31 or even the whole Chapter 2.

Now here's the catch. Show in all these Verses 2-31, and chapter 2.

As to where God created the water and Atmosphere ( air) ?

Now we know by verse 2 the water is there, But where is it written that God created the water and Atmosphere (air)

This leaves no room for any speculation, well God did this or God did that, No.

Don't speak it, just show in what verse where God created the water and Atmosphere ( air) it's that simple.
The reason that you will not find the Verse,
is because the earth and water and
Atmosphere (air) is already there as Verse 1, clearly states, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

The only thing Verse 1 doesn't say, Is when God created the heavens and the earth. Only in the beginning, When ever that was,
But the point being, there is no where in all those Verses 2-31 and chapter 2 that God created the water and Atmosphere (air)
 
Last edited:
Salvador

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
The literal interpretation of the Genesis creation myth is hereby debunked:

Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) "Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences". Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

If there were the most severe population bottlenecking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical or Quranic Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would've had to commit incest amongst each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today's population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.

DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. " However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest". Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) " Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?". 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum

Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years." Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) " Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium". Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Indeed, there is ample genetic evidence that biblical or koranic Adam never actually existed.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Salvador said:
The literal interpretation of the Genesis creation myth is hereby debunked:

Human genetic diversity is too great for there to have ever been a human population size that consisted of less than 10,000 individuals. Pairwise Sequentially Markovian Coalescent (PSMC) analysis confirms a population bottleneck in humans that consisted of no fewer than 10,000 individuals. Source: ( Li, Heng, and Durbin, Richard. ) "Inference of Human Population History from Individual Whole-Genome Sequences". Nature International Weekly Journal of Science. 28 July 2001. PSMC estimate on simulated data. : Inference of human population history from individual whole-genome sequences : Nature : Nature Publishing Group

If there were the most severe population bottlenecking such as one breeding pair that is portrayed in the case of the Biblical or Quranic Adam and Eve, then there would be a maximum of 4 alleles passed on by Adam and Eve to their children. Furthermore, the subsequent inbreeding would cause some loss of alleles due to genetic drifting. There would not have been genetic diversity in the small group of Adam, Eve and their children who would've had to commit incest amongst each other for the procreation of their inbred children. A lack of genetic diversity would have persisted for thousands of generations until genetic mutations could cause the genetic diversity of today's population. Based on the number of different alleles there are for the number of genes within the current population and the known rate of mutations per nucleotide sites in humans, geneticists can calculate the minimum number of people needed to create the current amount of genetic diversity. Numerous genetic studies suggest that there were several thousands of people more than two people during the most severe population bottleneck which ever occurred in human history.

DNA segments ( Alu repeats ) insert themselves at various chromosomal locations. There are various forms of Alu sequences and several thousand families of Alu. One well-studied family of Alu is called Ya5, which has been inserted into human chromosomes at 57 mapped locations. If we were to have descended from a single pair of ancestors such as Adam and Eve, then we all would have each of the 57 elements inserted at the same location points of our chromosomes. " However, the human population consists of groups of people who share some insertion points but not others. The multiple shared categories make it clear that although a human population bottleneck occurred, it was definitely never as small as two. In fact, this line of evidence also indicates that there were at least several thousand people when the population was at its smallest". Source: ( Venema, Dennis and Falk, Darrel ) " Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple?". 5 April 2010. Does Genetics Point to a Single Primal Couple? | The BioLogos Forum

Coalescence theory analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms and linkage disequilibrium indicates the mean effective population size for hominid lineage is 100,000 individuals over the course of the last 30 million years. The effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium is a minimum of 10,000 followed by an expansion in the last 20,000 years." Source: ( Tenesa, Albert, Navarro, Paul, Hayes, Ben J., Duffy, David L., Clarke,Geraldine, Goodard, Mike E. and Visscher, Peter M.) " Recent Human Effective Population Size Estimated from Linkage Disequilibrium". Genome Research. 17 April 2007 Recent human effective population size estimated from linkage disequilibrium

Indeed, there is ample genetic evidence that biblical or koranic Adam never actually existed.
Click to expand...

So who says.
 
THE HOOD APOLOGIST

THE HOOD APOLOGIST

Member
Faithofchristian said:
Seeing how the young Creationist believe everything was created at the time of Adam and Eve.
Now i would you to explain exactly in the book of Genesis 1:1--"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

Now in Genesis 1:2, here we will find the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Ok so far.

Now if you read from Verse 2 all the way to Verse 31 or even the whole Chapter 2.

Now here's the catch. Show in all these Verses 2-31, and chapter 2.

As to where God created the water and Atmosphere ( air) ?

Now we know by verse 2 the water is there, But where is it written that God created the water and Atmosphere (air)

This leaves no room for any speculation, well God did this or God did that, No.

Don't speak it, just show in what verse where God created the water and Atmosphere ( air) it's that simple.
The reason that you will not find the Verse,
is because the earth and water and
Atmosphere (air) is already there as Verse 1, clearly states, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"

The only thing Verse 1 doesn't say, Is when God created the heavens and the earth. Only in the beginning, When ever that was,
But the point being, there is no where in all those Verses 2-31 and chapter 2 that God created the water and Atmosphere (air)
Click to expand...
NewScientist magazine dated November 12, 2015 Title says,"Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet." It also says quote,"Our planet has had water from the very beginning." Which means when Earth was created it was created WITH water. Now scientist and the Bible may differ on the time that this happened, but it Sounds like Genesis 1:1,2 to me:

1:1- In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
1:2- And the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS:D
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
THE HOOD APOLOGIST said:
NewScientist magazine dated November 12, 2015 Title says,"Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet." It also says quote,"Our planet has had water from the very beginning." Which means when Earth was created it was created WITH water. Now scientist and the Bible may differ on the time that this happened, but it Sounds like Genesis 1:1,2 to me:

1:1- In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
1:2- And the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS:D
Click to expand...

As Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now the question is, .When was the beginning?
Seeing how it doesn't say when the beginning was,

If you also notice there's a period after
Earth. Indicating nothing more to be said and nothing more to be done
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Period
You do know what a period means at the end of a sentence don't you.
It means it's the end of the sentence to indicate nothing more to be said or done period.

Now as for 1:2--"And the earth was without
Form and void"

Now if you take the word ( was ) and go to the Greek translation the word ( was)
being ( and the earth became without form and void"

So now the question is, What happen to the earth to became without form and void

Throughout the bible does tell what happened for the earth became without form and void.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
THE HOOD APOLOGIST said:
NewScientist magazine dated November 12, 2015 Title says,"Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet." It also says quote,"Our planet has had water from the very beginning." Which means when Earth was created it was created WITH water. Now scientist and the Bible may differ on the time that this happened, but it Sounds like Genesis 1:1,2 to me:

1:1- In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
1:2- And the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS:D
Click to expand...

If you had notice in Genesis 1:1, the water and earth was already there, before God created anything during the creation week
of Genesis 1:3-14.

And if you had notice in Genesis 1:1-14.
There is no mentioning of God creating the water or Atmosphere ( air )
So when was the water and Atmosphere
( Air) as being created ?

Now as for Genesis 1:1 All it say is
( In the beginning) Now when was the beginning, seeing how there's no mentioning of the water and Atmosphere
( Air) as being created in Genesis 1:3-14
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe I am not a young creationist but my thinking is that "waters" is not what is being talked about. It probably was the closest word the translators could conjure. Since the earth was with out form I suspect that included waters. For me to say the earth was created means that all the elements of it were including water.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Faithofchristian said:
As Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now the question is, .When was the beginning?
Seeing how it doesn't say when the beginning was,

If you also notice there's a period after
Earth. Indicating nothing more to be said and nothing more to be done
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Period
You do know what a period means at the end of a sentence don't you.
It means it's the end of the sentence to indicate nothing more to be said or done period.

Now as for 1:2--"And the earth was without
Form and void"

Now if you take the word ( was ) and go to the Greek translation the word ( was)
being ( and the earth became without form and void"

So now the question is, What happen to the earth to became without form and void

Throughout the bible does tell what happened for the earth became without form and void.
Click to expand...

I believe the earth does not have to have form to exist as a separate entity. That is scientific theory that it was "made of the leftover gas from the nebula that made the Sun."
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
THE HOOD APOLOGIST said:
NewScientist magazine dated November 12, 2015 Title says,"Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet." It also says quote,"Our planet has had water from the very beginning." Which means when Earth was created it was created WITH water. Now scientist and the Bible may differ on the time that this happened, but it Sounds like Genesis 1:1,2 to me:

1:1- In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth.
1:2- And the earth was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the DEEP. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS:D
Click to expand...
There was water IN the Earth when it formed. The presence of liquid water did not exist until after the Earth cooled a bit. Here is a link to the article that you mentioned:

Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet

If you read it you will say that the Earth had water. It does not say or even imply that it had liquid water. The water was in the original dust and material that made up the Earth. It would have been present as ice originally and as the Earth formed and been buried deep within the Earth. Much of that water still remains. As the hot Earth degassed much of that would have gone into the atmosphere. The waters of the oceans did not form until well after the formation after Earth cooled quite a bit. Here is a short video on how the oceans formed:

 
THE HOOD APOLOGIST

THE HOOD APOLOGIST

Member
Subduction Zone said:
There was water IN the Earth when it formed. The presence of liquid water did not exist until after the Earth cooled a bit. Here is a link to the article that you mentioned:

Origin of Earth's water traced back to the birth of our planet

If you read it you will say that the Earth had water. It does not say or even imply that it had liquid water. The water was in the original dust and material that made up the Earth. It would have been present as ice originally and as the Earth formed and been buried deep within the Earth. Much of that water still remains. As the hot Earth degassed much of that would have gone into the atmosphere. The waters of the oceans did not form until well after the formation after Earth cooled quite a bit. Here is a short video on how the oceans formed:

Click to expand...
I don't think you're getting the point of my reply to the OP.
Since you, I, and all the scientist in the world weren't there when the Earth was formed, all we can do is hypothesize how the water got here, what state it was in, etc... this is fact. The point that I'm making is scientist are saying water was already here inside the Earth when it formed, while the Bible says, "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." The very next verse mentions waters. Logically this means God created the Earth "WITH" water. Period.

All the other things you mentioned including the video you provided are hypotheses, not facts since no one was there to witness it happening:peace:
 
THE HOOD APOLOGIST

THE HOOD APOLOGIST

Member
Faithofchristian said:
If you had notice in Genesis 1:1, the water and earth was already there, before God created anything during the creation week
of Genesis 1:3-14.

And if you had notice in Genesis 1:1-14.
There is no mentioning of God creating the water or Atmosphere ( air )
So when was the water and Atmosphere
( Air) as being created ?

Now as for Genesis 1:1 All it say is
( In the beginning) Now when was the beginning, seeing how there's no mentioning of the water and Atmosphere
( Air) as being created in Genesis 1:3-14
Click to expand...
I really don't understand what you're point is.

When God created the heavens and the Earth he created the Earth with water, just like he created the Earth with land. It doesn't say when he created minerals, rocks, chemicals, atoms, etc...either. It's all there when he creates the Earth. You trying to discredit the scriptures because it doesn't mention him specifically creating something and giving the specific time makes is irrational to say the least.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
THE HOOD APOLOGIST said:
I don't think you're getting the point of my reply to the OP.
Since you, I, and all the scientist in the world weren't there when the Earth was formed, all we can do is hypothesize how the water got here, what state it was in, etc... this is fact. The point that I'm making is scientist are saying water was already here inside the Earth when it formed, while the Bible says, "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth." The very next verse mentions waters. Logically this means God created the Earth "WITH" water. Period.

All the other things you mentioned including the video you provided are hypotheses, not facts since no one was there to witness it happening:peace:
Click to expand...
Now you are merely reinterpreting the Bible after the fact. One can ignore all sorts of errors when one does that. For example the repeated Flat Earth claims in the Bible. It is best not to use the Bible as a science book, or even as a history book. Anything beyond about 500 BC is very questionable if not outright wrong.
 
THE HOOD APOLOGIST

THE HOOD APOLOGIST

Member
Subduction Zone said:
Now you are merely reinterpreting the Bible after the fact. One can ignore all sorts of errors when one does that. For example the repeated Flat Earth claims in the Bible. It is best not to use the Bible as a science book, or even as a history book. Anything beyond about 500 BC is very questionable if not outright wrong.
Click to expand...
Like I said, you haven't posted any evidence of your claims, therefore Hitchens Razor applies to your posts. You have a nice day:peace:
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
THE HOOD APOLOGIST said:
Like I said, you haven't posted any evidence of your claims, therefore Hitchens Razor applies to your posts. You have a nice day:peace:
Click to expand...
You messed up. I did post a link that explained why your prophecies fail when used as you want to use them. Meanwhile you were never specific enough and did not present a prophecy in any meaningful way. Your beliefs are the ones that the Razor applies to. Nice try, play again when you have something.
 
THE HOOD APOLOGIST

THE HOOD APOLOGIST

Member
Faithofchristian said:
As Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now the question is, .When was the beginning?
Seeing how it doesn't say when the beginning was,

If you also notice there's a period after
Earth. Indicating nothing more to be said and nothing more to be done
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Period
You do know what a period means at the end of a sentence don't you.
It means it's the end of the sentence to indicate nothing more to be said or done period.

Now as for 1:2--"And the earth was without
Form and void"

Now if you take the word ( was ) and go to the Greek translation the word ( was)
being ( and the earth became without form and void"

So now the question is, What happen to the earth to became without form and void

Throughout the bible does tell what happened for the earth became without form and void.
Click to expand...
I'll say one more thing. Why are you going to a Greek translation for a Hebrew passage?
Not only that it DOES NOT SAY THE EARTH BECAME WITHOUT FORM AND VOID.
The Hebrew words are Tohuw and bohuw and they mean vacant and empty. In plain English, empty and unoccupied.
 
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