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Matthew 27:46 anyone figure this out yet?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes, Jesus is the or rather a manifested form of God.
God= God
Jesus=God
Spirit =God, in Trinitarianism
• Jesus is indwelling of 'g- d the father'.

I find at John 10:36 Jesus is answering that he is the Son of God. That would have been the perfect opportunity to say that he was his own God. Rather, at John 4:23-24 Jesus instructs as to who to worship.
God sends forth His spirit, Not Himself as per Psalms 104:30
God and Lord are titles. The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) name only applies to God and Not to Jesus.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In Matthew 27:46 Jesus was fulling
Psalm chapter 22.
The question is, Why was Jesus being forsaken, What was the reason behind it for Jesus to be forsaken.

Yes, agree Jesus was fulfilling Psalms 22
Jesus was in a sense just 'momentarily abandoned', or 'temporarily released' into the hands of his enemies.
See - Matthew 27:34-46; Psalms 22:16
This would show us that Jesus was dying for us of his own free-will choice without his Father's backing or help.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
So you are telling me Jesus fathered himself?
Then you are asking me how does this work?

You are in a mess like the billions and billions who are now dead
and the billions of Christians who are alive


God the Father is greater than Jesus is in the body of flesh and blood.

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood and then God the Father in case himself inside the body of flesh and blood, there you have God in the flesh body of Jesus Christ

Take that of a caterpillar, that it makes it's self a cocoon then once inside the cocoon
It becomes a butter fly

As God made himself a body of flesh and then once God entered the body of flesh,
God becomes Jesus Christ
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Need some verses...


What do you verses, as to how many times does a person have to give verses for you to grasp them.

In John 14:8-9,
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father"

Now notice that Philip asking Jesus to show them the Father, and then Jesus tells Philip, he that has seen me has seen the Father
That's because inside of the body of Jesus is God the Father
Therefore when anyone look at Jesus, they were looking at God the Father.

In John 14:28--"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Notice here Jesus saying the Father is greater than I.

Now how is the Father greater than Jesus, if Jesus is the Father.

God the Father is greater than Jesus is in the body of flesh.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yes, agree Jesus was fulfilling Psalms 22
Jesus was in a sense just 'momentarily abandoned', or 'temporarily released' into the hands of his enemies.
See - Matthew 27:34-46; Psalms 22:16
This would show us that Jesus was dying for us of his own free-will choice without his Father's backing or help.

At the time when Jesus cried out, My God, My God why has you forsaken me.

Because Jesus taken all the sin's of the world upon himself. At that moment God forsaken Jesus because Jesus had all the sin of the world place on him.
By which at the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus,
Christ Jesus conquered sin and death.

That all those who believe in Christ Jesus, will also over come sin and death.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
God the Father is greater than Jesus is in the body of flesh and blood.

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood and then God the Father in case himself inside the body of flesh and blood, there you have God in the flesh body of Jesus Christ

Take that of a caterpillar, that it makes it's self a cocoon then once inside the cocoon
It becomes a butter fly

As God made himself a body of flesh and then once God entered the body of flesh,
God becomes Jesus Christ

Wow...
Do you have a verse to support all of those statements?

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood and then God the Father in case himself inside the body of flesh and blood, there you have God in the flesh body of Jesus Christ

Doesn't make sense
To fool everybody?



Totally Un-scriptural
Maybe it would look good in the movies.;)
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Matthew 27: 36; has anyone figured this out yet.

Yes! And I will now repeat it.

Just as mankind developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, so too, 'THE SON OF MAN' develops within the great androgynous pregnant body of EVE=Mankind, and Just as each and everyone of us must pay the blood price for the sins of our flesh, and all have sinned, so too, 'THE SON OF MAN' is the only one who can pay the death penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he develops.

It was the savior of mankind, 'The Son of Man' who is the MOST HIGH In the creation, who descended from his most high point in time and filled the man Jesus with his spirit=words.

The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who is the only begotten son of God and equal to God in every way, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to MY WORDS that the prophet speaks in my name.

It was the man Jesus, who the Lord chose as his heir and successor, on the day that Jesus was baptized, and the spirit of the Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son (My chosen heir and successor) TODAY I have begotten thee.

And it was through his obedient servant Jesus that the Lord revealed himself to us, and the awesome sacrifice that he makes for the body in which he develops.

When on the cross, Jesus cried out; "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me," and gave up the spirit, the Lord God our savior, who cannot die, ceased to be an individual entity, by releasing all the righteous spirits that had been gathered to him in his evolutionary ascent to very heights of time, and after three days, those saints, who were the risen body of Christ, went into the city and showed themselves to many
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Wow...
Do you have a verse to support all of those statements?

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood and then God the Father in case himself inside the body of flesh and blood, there you have God in the flesh body of Jesus Christ

Doesn't make sense
To fool everybody?



Totally Un-scriptural
Maybe it would look good in the movies.;)


Thy it doesn't make sense to you, because you have no spiritual discernment.

As it is written
" But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14

As you said doesn't make sense. Because you have no Spiritual discernment.
To know the things of God
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
What do you verses, as to how many times does a person have to give verses for you to grasp them.

In John 14:8-9,
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father"

Now notice that Philip asking Jesus to show them the Father, and then Jesus tells Philip, he that has seen me has seen the Father
That's because inside of the body of Jesus is God the Father
Therefore when anyone look at Jesus, they were looking at God the Father.

In John 14:28--"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Notice here Jesus saying the Father is greater than I.

Now how is the Father greater than Jesus, if Jesus is the Father.

God the Father is greater than Jesus is in the body of flesh.


That is the problem when you use Old English in the 21st century.
How about a more contemporary version so people could understand?

John 14:8-30 New International Version (NIV)
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

Was Jesus sent?
He was
Who sent Jesus?
The Father sent Jesus
How come?
The Father is greater than Jesus.
Who is God?
The Father who sent his Son, Jesus Christ.


john316.jpg


John 8:42 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

Isn't it clear?
Jesus Christ said "the Father who sent me"
Jesus Christ said "God sent me"
Who is God? The Father who sent Jesus Christ.

Why does the world believe Jesus is God?
From the Bible:


Revelation 12:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I think it is time to be undeceived
don't you agree?
SYS - 'save your soul'
 

Workman

UNIQUE
Matthew 27:46

Deity why have you forsaken, g- d why have you forsaken...

Context seems to be, yoheshua saying the deity has forsaken him, anyone figure this out?

Sort of contradicts the other verses.
My study of this interpretation says;

It speaks of crowd whom went through in to sentencing Jesus and watched him to his death.
Saying; with crowd doing what they thought was the right thing to do at the time. But!.When one(crowd) watches another one(Jesus) in pain for so long then hears the cry of the other-one(Jesus)..for the one(crowd) who put Jesus in that position will feel his pain and guilt eating his inside for his involvement in Jesus’s death, and realise it was wrong of him. For all this had changed for that one person in his thoughts because of the guilt..and that guilt feeling is God.

Which means for that one person who believed what was thought to be the right thing to do, and went through with it..watching Jesus tortured for 9hrs in pain and then to hear a cry from his doings..made one feel guilty..for it was from that guilt God telling that one: you were wrong in this scenario..God did not forsake Jesus..it is us humans that has forsaken God..which means Jesus was crying out to the crowd..this is where God comes in to this picture; was through us(humans),(crowd) through our emotional feelings is(God). Jesus was crying to God within us(crowd).

IMO..
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
At the time when Jesus cried out, My God, My God why has you forsaken me.
Because Jesus taken all the sin's of the world upon himself. At that moment God forsaken Jesus because Jesus had all the sin of the world place on him.
By which at the death and Resurrection of Christ Jesus,
Christ Jesus conquered sin and death.
That all those who believe in Christ Jesus, will also over come sin and death.
Yes, and because Jesus conquered sin and death is why his God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts 2:27.
- Acts of the Apostles 2:24,32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 5:30; Colossians 2:12
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
That's right - they didn't have chapter and verse numbers like we do in our modern bibles so they often simply quoted the first phrase or a particularly memorable portion of a passage to make references to the scriptures. So the writer of the Gospel was effectively saying 'go and look up in the scrolls of the Psalms the passage that starts with the words "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?"' - and of course when they did, lo and behold! - there's also the bit about people "wagging their heads", and the bit about them "dividing up his garments"...etc. What a forceful way of implanting the idea that prophecy (Messianic prophecy no less) was being fulfilled here. And, of course so much better to put the opening phrase in Jesus' own mouth - nobody's going to question that are they - whereas if it had just been the Gospel-writer's own preface to the story everyone's just going to go "yeah right - and you didn't really copy all this from the Psalms just to make your story better...go on...pull the other one".

Yep - I think I got it figured out. Nice story-telling though - you gotta admit.

Huh?

1) Explain how the Psalmist, David, got the crucifixion details right, prior to Jesus, since David never had his garments divided et al

2) Explain how you missed God has a second and third agenda with the quotation--it's like you haven't read the NT account
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The Lord God our savior, 'The Son of Man' who is the only begotten son of God and equal to God in every way, said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put MY WORDS in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to MY WORDS that the prophet speaks in my name.
Jesus is 'previously unknown', book of John, form of G- d. This means, Jesus wasn't 'known', form. of G- d, previous to incarnation.

Unless John was talking about a different god.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
John 6:46
John 5:37

In other words the 'previously unknown' god can only mean, Jesus, manifested form, in Yisrael.



Otherwise it's referring to another god.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Speaking of which,
John 5:37

Huh?





Yikes...
Only way for this to make sense if it's 'context specific', those specific people Jesus is talking to , were practicing a different religion.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I find at John 10:36 Jesus is answering that he is the Son of God. That would have been the perfect opportunity to say that he was his own God. Rather, at John 4:23-24 Jesus instructs as to who to worship.
God sends forth His spirit, Not Himself as per Psalms 104:30
God and Lord are titles. The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) name only applies to God and Not to Jesus.
G- d wouldn't be a title, in the verse, the way you are reading it. It would be a 'name', and not the Tetragrammaton, or a 'Lord' equivalent, at all, actually.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Yes, and because Jesus conquered sin and death is why his God resurrected dead Jesus out of the grave - Acts 2:27.
- Acts of the Apostles 2:24,32; Acts of the Apostles 3:15; Acts of the Apostles 5:30; Colossians 2:12

As for Acts 2:27, this is not about Christ Jesus, but about king David
Had you back up to Verse 25-27.
You would haved found Acts 2:27, is about king David and not about Christ Jesus.

Acts 2:24-32, is about king David and not about Christ Jesus.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
That is the problem when you use Old English in the 21st century.
How about a more contemporary version so people could understand?

John 14:8-30 New International Version (NIV)
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

Was Jesus sent?
He was
Who sent Jesus?
The Father sent Jesus
How come?
The Father is greater than Jesus.
Who is God?
The Father who sent his Son, Jesus Christ.


View attachment 27667

John 8:42 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.

Isn't it clear?
Jesus Christ said "the Father who sent me"
Jesus Christ said "God sent me"
Who is God? The Father who sent Jesus Christ.

Why does the world believe Jesus is God?
From the Bible:


Revelation 12:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I think it is time to be undeceived
don't you agree?
SYS - 'save your soul'

When people use, contemporary version, man incorporated in those contemporary versions, man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Man's teachings makes void the teachings of Christ Jesus.
This is why Christ Jesus condemns the teachings of man's in Matthew 15:7-9.

7-- You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8-- This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9-- But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

Therefore man incorporated his teachings in those contemporary version.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Jesus is 'previously unknown', book of John, form of G- d. This means, Jesus wasn't 'known', form. of G- d, previous to incarnation.

Unless John was talking about a different god.

Incarnation is not a Christian doctrine hence not found in the Bible?
Whose doctrine is this on the first place?
Where was this concept copied from?


Hinduism
Main article: Avatar

Ten incarnations of Vishnu (Matsya, Kurma, Varaha, Vamana, Krishna, Kalki, Buddha, Parshurama, Rama & Narasimha). Painting from Jaipur, now at the Victoria and Albert Museum

In Hinduism, incarnation refers to its rebirth doctrine, and in its theistic traditions to avatar.[10] Avatar literally means "descent, alight, to make one's appearance",[11] and refers to the embodiment of the essence of a superhuman being or a deity in another form.[12] The word also implies "to overcome, to remove, to bring down, to cross something".[11] In Hindu traditions, the "crossing or coming down" is symbolism, states Daniel Bassuk, of the divine descent from "eternity into the temporal realm, from unconditioned to the conditioned, from infinitude to finitude".[13] An avatar, states Justin Edwards Abbott, is a saguna (with form, attributes) embodiment of the nirguna Brahman or Atman (soul).[14]

Neither the Vedas nor the Principal Upanishads ever mentions the word avatar as a noun.[13] The verb roots and form, such as avatarana, do appear in ancient post-Vedic Hindu texts, but as "action of descending", but not as an incarnated person (avatara).[15] The related verb avatarana is, states Paul Hacker, used with double meaning, one as action of the divine descending, another as "laying down the burden of man" suffering from the forces of evil.[15]

The term is most commonly found in the context of the Hindu god Vishnu.[11][16] The earliest mention of Vishnu manifested in a human form to empower the good and fight against evil, uses other terms such as the word sambhavāmi in verse 4.6 and the word tanu in verse 9.11 of the Bhagavad Gita,[17] as well as other words such as akriti and rupa elsewhere.[18] It is in medieval era texts, those composed after the sixth century CE, that the noun version of avatar appears, where it means embodiment of a deity.[19] The incarnation idea proliferates thereafter, in the Puranic stories for many deities, and with ideas such as ansha-avatar or partial embodiments.[17][16]

While Avatars of other deities such as Ganesha and Shiva are also mentioned in medieval Hindu texts, this is minor and occasional.[20] The incarnation doctrine is one of the important differences between Vaishnavism and Shaivism traditions of Hinduism.[21][22]

Incarnation - Wikipedia
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
When people use, contemporary version, man incorporated in those contemporary versions, man's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Man's teachings makes void the teachings of Christ Jesus.
This is why Christ Jesus condemns the teachings of man's in Matthew 15:7-9.

7-- You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8-- This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9-- But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

Therefore man incorporated his teachings in those contemporary version.

Shakespearean English only muddies the message of Christ.
You yourself are using contemporary and conversational English
Otherwise you, your friends and your relatives will be talking in Old English
With the "thou thy thee -eth" everyone would be brain exhausted by afternoon


Now that is being a hypocrite.
Be true to yourself.

Next, Christ Jesus is an Israelite and in his conversations he used Hebrew and a strong probability of Koine Greek which was popular during his time. So why give the Old Style of English a must use language in the Bible.

Lastly, a lot of people do not understand "English" and do not use "English" in their everyday lives.
English runs 2nd among the popular languages spoken and understood by people

  1. Mandarin Chinese (1.1 billion speakers) ...
  2. English (983 million speakers) ...
  3. Hindustani (544 million speakers) ...
  4. Spanish (527 million speakers) ...
  5. Arabic (422 million speakers) ...
  6. Malay (281 million speakers) ...
  7. Russian (267 million speakers) ...
  8. Bengali (261 million speakers)
And you would like to ram the Shakespearean kind of English to the Chinese?
Now that is ridiculous.

Very silly in fact - to the max!
Old English is 700 years old and the Bible is 2,700 years old more or less
If you want to be really into the language of the Bible, you have to learn:
Hebrew and Koine Greek - and find those original manuscript
and tell us the message in the untranslated form
At the end of the day, no one would understand your Hebrew or Greek
and needed to be translated in a more contemporary vernacular

Did that help? No.
English is not my primary language
I happen to learn English at school
Do you think my countrymen would understand me in English?
Oh the Shakespearean English - the KJV Bible English?
They will develop nose bleed


So what is a bible message in a language not understood by your listeners?
The bible has this to say:

1 Corinthians 13:1 New International Version (NIV)
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

 
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