The Red Sea is parting again, but this time Moses doesn’t have a hand in it.

The Anointed said:

So any historian today, who records anything that happened in the fourth century A.D, should be ignored, because you believe that they wouldn't have a clue.

The Hyksos left Egypt in 1567 B.C., 67 years before you reckon that they invaded Egypt.

Can we believe anything that you say?

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sooda said:

Genesis and Exodus aren't history at all.. Like the rest of the Bible they have been redacted, amended, added to many, many times over 2500 years. .

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The Anointed said:

Didn't you say that they we not even in existence until they were written while the Israelites were captives in Babylon.

Can we believe anything that you say?

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sooda said:

Oh for God's sake.

The Hyksos were a group of mixed Semitic-Asiatics who settled in northern Egypt during the 18th century BC. In about 1630 they seized power, and Hyksos kings ruled Egypt as the 15th dynasty (c. 1630-1521 BC).

Josephus wasn't born until 37 AD.

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The Anointed said:

Let me again repeat.

From ‘The World Book Dictionary,’ (Hyksos) “A succession of six foreign rulers of Egypt—from about 1730 B.C. to about 1570 B.C; Shepherd Kings.” --- And from the Encyclopedia Britannica, ‘Hyksos’, invaders who were also called the Shepherd Kings, who in the time of “King Tutimaios” entered Egypt and took possession of it without striking a blow and it is said here that Josephus the historian, identifies them with the Israelites and that their reign ended in 1567 B.C.

Genesis 41: After Joseph had revealed to the king that his dreams were a prophecy telling of a seven year period of plenty, which would be followed by a seven year period of severe drought, Joseph is made Governor of all Egypt, and all Egyptians were commanded by the King to obey him. The King removed his royal ring with its engraved seal and put it on the finger of Joseph. He was given the second royal chariot and a guard of honour who went ahead of him crying out, “Make way, make way.” And the King said: I am King, but no one in all of Egypt shall so much as lift a hand or a foot without Joseph’s permission. He gave Joseph an Egyptian wife, Asenath, the daughter of the High priest of Heliopolis, who prophesied that if ever the bones of Joseph left Egypt, the LIGHT of Egypt would go with him. For that reason, a permanent guard was set up to keep watch over the tomb of Joseph, in order that no one could remove the mummified body of Joseph.

During the seven years of plenty, Joseph gathered a percentage of the Egyptian grain crop as a tax, which was stored in silos throughout Egypt. In the early stages of the great seven-year drought, the Egyptians had to buy their grain from Joseph, when their money had all gone they traded their possessions and livestock, after which, they were forced to sign their land over for grain in order to survive.

Genesis 47: 20-21. Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for the king. Every Egyptian was forced to sell their land, because the famine was so severe; Joseph made slaves of all the people from one end of Egypt to the other, without striking a blow.

The Hyksos were described as bowmen and cavalrymen wearing the cloaks of many colours, much like the cloak of many colours that was worn by Joseph the son of Israel and the first of the Hyksos kings.
​

If Josephus the historian is correct and the exodus of the Shepherd Kings did occur in 1567 BC, and Jericho was destroyed after they had wandered in the desert for 40 years, then according to the biblical account, the destruction of Jericho would have occurred around 1527 BC. 1567-40=1527.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]

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The Anointed said:

1. 
   
   
2. Then tell us what you said, (Which we can verify) then we will continue this debate.

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• The Planck time: 10-43 seconds. After this time gravity can be considered to be a classical background in which particles and fields evolve following quantum mechanics. A region about 10-33 cm across is homogeneous and isotropic, The temperature is T=10 32K.
• Inflation begins. In Linde's chaotic inflation model inflation starts at the Planck time, although it could start when the temperature falls to point at which the symmetry of Grand Unified Theory (GUT) is spontaneously broken. This occurs when the temperature is around 1027 to 1028K at 10-35 seconds after the Big Bang."

The Anointed said:

So any historian today, who records anything that happened in the fourth century A.D, should be ignored, because you believe that they wouldn't have a clue.

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The Hyksos left Egypt in 1567 B.C., 67 years before you reckon that they invaded Egypt.

Can we believe anything that you say?

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The Anointed said:

Didn't you say that they we not even in existence until they were written while the Israelites were captives in Babylon.

Can we believe anything that you say?

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The Anointed said:

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]

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The Israelites Capture Jericho

shunyadragon said:

Of course not, but historians today rely on multiple sources, and the historians rely on archaeological source, and multiply historians and ancient records. That is the reason the Pentateuch is not considered a reliable nor accurate historical record.

The history of the Hyksos people in Egypt is primarily documented mainly by archaeological evidence, written egyptian records, and correlated with known historians who were not always accurate, because most historians were not first person witnesses of the history.

From: Hyksos

The Hyksos were a Semitic people who gained a foothold in Egypt c. 1782 BCE at the city of Avaris in Lower Egypt, thus initiating the era known in Egyptian history as the Second Intermediate Period (c. 1782 - c. 1570 BCE). Their name, Heqau-khasut, translates as 'Rulers of Foreign Lands' (given by the Greeks as Hyksos), suggesting to some scholars that they were kings or nobility driven from their homes by invasion who found refuge in the port city of Avaris and managed to establish a strong power base during the decline of the 13th Dynasty of the Middle Kingdom (2040-1782 BCE). Most likely, they were traders who were at first welcomed at Avaris, prospered, and sent word to their friends and neighbors to come join them, resulting in a large population which was able to finally exert political and then military power.

Although the later Egyptian scribes of the New Kingdom (c. 1570-1069 BCE) would demonize the Hyksos as 'invaders' who conquered the land, destroyed temples, and slaughtered without mercy, there is no evidence for any of these claims. Even today, the Hyksos are referred to as invaders and their advent in Egypt as the 'Hyksos Invasion,' but actually, they assimilated neatly into Egyptian culture adopting Egyptian fashion and religious beliefs, with some modifications, as their own. Contrary to many claims throughout the years, there is no reason to identify the Hyksos with the Hurrians nor with the Hebrew slaves from the biblical Book of Exodus.

The main source of information on the Hyksos in Egypt comes from the 3rd century BCE Egyptian writer Manetho whose work has been lost but was extensively quoted by later writers, notably Flavius Josephus (37- c. 100 CE). Manetho's flawed understanding of the meaning of the Hyksos' name, and Josephus' further misinterpretation gives the translation of 'Hyksos' as 'captive shepherds,' and this complete misunderstanding has given rise in recent years to the claim that the Hyksos were a Hebrew community living in Egypt whose expulsion provides the basis for the events recorded in the Book of Exodus. There is no evidence, however, to support this claim. No Egyptian, nor any other culture's, records indicate the Hyksos were slaves in Egypt, and there is absolutely no indication they were Hebrew, only that they spoke and wrote a Semitic language. The ethnic origins of the Hyksos are unknown as is their fate once they were driven from Egypt by Ahmose I of Thebes (c. 1570-1544 BCE) who initiated the era of the New Kingdom of Egypt (c. 1570-1069 BCE)."

The article goes into more detail.

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shunyadragon said:

You are only citing one source for dating the Biblical destruction of Jericho. I prefer the citation of multiple sources, and of course, more recent and comprehensive research since Kathleen Kenyon. Jericho dates back to 10,000 BCE and possibly earlier.

From: Early Jericho

BRONZE AGE & THE FALL OF JERICHO

After this, new settlements were established in Jericho periodically. These settlements were still Neolithic, but there is evidence that they were producing pottery. It became a walled town again at the end of the 4th millennium BCE. Evidence shows that the walls have been rebuilt many times. The largest of these settlements was constructed in 2600 BCE by the Amorites. About 2300 BCE, there was once more a break in the occupation of the site. It was taken over by the Canaanites in 1900 BCE and reached its greatest prominence between 1700 BCE and 1550 BCE. This was due to the rise of aristocrats that utilized chariots called the Maryannu in the Mitannite state to the north. Their rise caused a greater urbanization in the surrounding area, including Jericho.

By this time, there were two walls around the city in a double enclosure made of mud brick. The outside wall rested on top of a stone base. Though they were impressive in size, they were not stable. Bronze Age Jericho fell in the 16th century around 1573 BCE when it was violently destroyed by an earthquake. Charred wood found at the site suggests that the remains of the city were burned. Buried food supplies also suggest that it was not captured following a siege. It remained unoccupied until the late 10th century or early 9th century BCE when it was rebuilt.




The Israelites Capture Jericho


THE ISRAELITES & THE BATTLE OF JERICHO

According to the Bible, at around 1,400 BCE, Jericho was the first city attacked by the Israelites after they crossed the Jordan River and entered Canaan. The Wall of Jericho was destroyed when the Israelites walked around it for seven days carrying the Ark of the Covenant. On the seventh day, Joshua commanded his people to blow their trumpets made of rams’ horns and shout at the walls until they finally fell down. Excavations of the site reveal a network of collapsed walls that date to around the late 17th century or early 16th century BCE. The most likely cause of the collapse was an earthquake. Descriptions of later earthquake destruction (1267 CE & 1927 CE) match the description of the collapsed walls in the Bible.

In each description, the cliffs above the Jordan River fell into the river and dammed it up. It also reveals that Jericho was unoccupied from the late 15th century to around the 10th century BCE. Non-Biblical Scholars now believe that the Bible story is an allegory.

The story was written sometime after 722 BCE, long after the date of the event, and was used to claim the territory for the Kingdom Of Israel. Biblical Scholars point to the destruction of the walls 175 years earlier as proof that the story in the Bible is true. They state that the only thing amiss is the dating in the Bible and that the earthquake was God rewarding the Israelites for following his commands. According to the Bible, Jericho remained abandoned until Hiel the Bethelite established himself there in the 9th century BCE."

As with the whole of the Bible there are historical events, people and geography, but there are much subject o interpretation, and yes much that is not accurate.

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The Anointed said:

Continued from post #111.

The oldest known Jewish work not included in the canon of Constantine’s universal church, is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, and it is said that the known COPIES of which were written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE.

The oldest COPIES of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls

Among the Dead Sea Scrolls were a number of manuscripts of the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha, including ten manuscripts of the Book of Enoch in the original Aramaic (until then copies were extant only in an Ethiopic translation of a Greek translation of a Semitic original), which were vital to answering many questions about its origins. Dating of the manuscripts by their script shows that certain parts of Enoch are at least as old as the third century BCE.

I believe, and have already revealed, that there is ample evidence to support the belief that the original Books of Enoch, the latest COPIES of which were discovered among the Dead Sea scrolls, date back much earlier than the 5th century, and that the originals were taken from Egypt, the land of first born, by Moses.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

365 is the number of days in a calendar year, Enoch is the one year old unblemished Lamb of God.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was Translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

Enoch, the most important man in the OT and the NT, the chosen cornerstone to which the righteous are gathered in the creation of God’s new glorious temple of Light, which is to replace his old earthly tabernacle=tent (the body of mankind,) and yet he has been rejected by both the Jewish church and the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.

After Enoch had been carried to the very throne of the Most-High in the creation and anointed as his successor. "The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the Most-High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save but one man) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the CHRIST, he is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the Most-High in the creation]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

The Book of Jubilees 4: 30; And he (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

After Enoch in his ascension to the ends of time, had been in the valley of man for three days (Three thousand years) he was reborn on earth and revealed as the man Jesus in who were the spirits of the righteous over whom death had no more power.

These were they, who had paid the blood price for their inherited sin and any mistakes they had made while in the flesh, who were then separated from the unrighteous dead and entered into rest as they were gathered to the evolving spirit of Enoch within the bosom of Abraham, and over they, the second death had no power.

Isaiah 57: 1-2; “Good people die, and no one understands or even cares. But when they die, no calamity can harm them. Those who lead good lives, find peace and rest in death.”

1st Peter 1: 19-21; but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

He was chosen before the creation of the world, but which world? The previous world that was destroyed by water, or this world which is destined to be destroyed by fire?

In the Book of Enoch the Prophet, and in his ascension to the throne of the MOST HIGH, Enoch saw Jesus, and in 39: 8; he says; “And there I wished to dwell, and my spirit longed for that dwelling place and there hence forth has been my portion. For so hath it been established concerning me before the Lord of Spirits.

Then concerning Jesus the elect one of righteousness, Enoch says in 49: 3; “And in him dwells the spirit of wisdom, and the spirit which gives insight, and the spirit of understanding and of might, AND THE SPIRITS OF THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP IN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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sooda said:

The book of Enoch warrants special attention for the unique material it holds, such as the origins of supernatural demons and giants, why some angels fell from heaven, details explaining why the Great Flood was morally necessary, and prophetic exposition of the thousand-year reign of the Messiah.

The older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) of the text are estimated to date from about 300 BCE, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably to the 1st century BCE.

Most Christians consider it noncanonical or noninspired.

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The Anointed said:

I‘ll stick with the bibles story of Israel’s 215 year sojourn in Egypt before being kicked out in 1567 B.C. and their destruction 40 years later of the city of Jericho. But you were correct in stating that they assimilated neatly into Egyptian culture adopting Egyptian fashion and religious beliefs, with some modifications, as their own.

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Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross, deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

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The Anointed said:

I‘ll stick with the bibles story of Israel’s 215 year sojourn in Egypt before being kicked out in 1567 B.C. and their destruction 40 years later of the city of Jericho. But you were correct in stating that they assimilated neatly into Egyptian culture adopting Egyptian fashion and religious beliefs, with some modifications, as their own.

Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross, deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

Moses, who was the adopted grandson of Pharaoh and who would have been afforded the best education in the country, may have been initiated into the circle of the guardians of the sacred secrets.

Moses took the bread or the sacred teachings of Egypt [The land of First Born] and removed the yeast and gave to the children of Israel the regulations, rules and laws, that the Israelites were to keep for all time. --------- In one of the religious regulations established by Moses, Aaron would place his hand upon the head of a scapegoat, symbolically transferring the sins of Israel to the goat, which was then sent out into the wilderness to Azazel. What or who, is this Azazel?

In the margins of the Good News Catholic Study Bible, Leviticus 16: concerning “Azazel” it is written by the Catholic authors of the GNB; ‘AZAZEL’ “The meaning of this Hebrew word is unknown: it may be the name of a desert demon.” ‘Azazel’ see Leviticus16: 8.

According to the ancient writings, it was in the days of Enoch’s Father ‘Jared’, which name means ‘Descending,’ that 200 Sons of God, who Enoch describes as watchers or rather OBSERVERS, descended and introduced into the primitive culture of mankind, technology that was about equivalent to that which had been achieved three thousand years in the future.

The Orthodox religious organisations are ignorant as to who Azazel is, because they have rejected the books of Enoch, which are the foundation stone of all scripture, and the stone that has been rejected by the builders of the universal church of Emperor Constantine has turned out to be the most important Stone of all.

The books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, were cherished by the early Christians and were held in great reverence by many of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen, until the early 4th century when, under the ban of dogmatic religious authorities such as Jerome, Hillary and Augustin, they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

Concerning Azazel, we read in the Book of Enoch the prophet, chapter 9 to chapter 10; “And Michael said to the heavenly Lord, "Seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and has revealed the eternal secrets which were preserved in heaven, which men were striving to learn. And Semjaza, to whom you have given authority to bear rule over his associates (The other 199 sons of God) and they have gone to the daughters of men upon the earth and have slept with them and revealed to them all kinds of sin etc.

Semjaza, the leader of the observers, taught enchantments, and root cutting, among other sons of God who revealed to the women all kinds of sin, were Armaros, who taught the resolving of enchantments, Baralqual taught astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon, etc.

But Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tintures etc.

Tubal-Cain, was from an age of man prior to Seth the first in the line of descendants from Adam according to the genealogy recorded in Genesis 5: and Tubal-Cain had been an instructor of every artificer in brass and iron, which knowledge was stored in heaven when that age came to its end)

The Lord, through his only begotten prophet Enoch, then passed judgment on the angels who had forsaken their own original habitat and came down and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, saying to them; “You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew only worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth.”

See the Book of Enoch the Prophet 10: 4-9; “And again the Lord said to Raphael: Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening 5) in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may 6,7) not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire, for all sin is to be ascribed to him.

This is why the scapegoat carried the sins of Israel into the desert to 'AZAZEL.'

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The Anointed said:

The books of Enoch from which Jesus and his apostles taught, were cherished by the early Christians and were held in great reverence by many of the early church fathers, including Irenaeus, Tertullian and Origen, until the early 4th century when, under the ban of dogmatic religious authorities from the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine, such as Jerome, Hillary and Augustin, they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

When you say that The older sections (mainly in the Book of the Watchers) of the text are estimated to date from about 300 BCE, and the latest part (Book of Parables) probably to the .1st century BCE, you are referring to the oldest COPIES still in existence.

Good night Grandma.

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sooda said:

I don't think Jesus and the Apostles had any books.

Its called pseudopigraphical, meaning that it is written under and assumed name. This happened a lot at this time in history. It also happened with the works about Jesus and the Apostles too.

Just because there is a name on something does not mean that it was written by that person.

It is named after Enoch who was the son or grandson of Adam to make believe it was older.... so they said Enoch wrote it, to try and make it more believable.

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The Anointed said:

Are you really that ignorant to the Holy Scriptures? Can you not get anything right?

We are not discussing Enoch the son of Cain the shinning one from a previous age of mankind, we are talking about Enoch the seventh from Adam, son of Jared and father of Methusulah, and 70 generations from Jesus, making Jesus the eleventh of the seventh born sons from Adam, 10 completes the old cycle [Mankind], "eleven" 10+1.begins the new cycle, [The Son of Man.]

First, "MAN" (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh') in English, mortal human beings) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man (אנושׁ : 'enosh) in English, mortal human beings) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen. But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and is now incontestably divine and sits in the heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father’s throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, will bow at their feet.

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