Spiderman
Veteran Member
Do you want it to happen?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Saint Muammar Gaddafi
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
If America and her "allies" overthrow Assad and Shiites in Syria, Syria will become a total hell hole like Libya is now.
I mean, it's already a hell hole, but some of the non Muslims who are protected by Assad will be exterminated. Mark my words!
Assad has been fighting some of the worst fanatic combatants in the world.
I mean, it's already a hell hole, but some of the non Muslims who are protected by Assad will be exterminated. Mark my words!
Assad has been fighting some of the worst fanatic combatants in the world.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
And butchering civilians.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
There are different accounts.
Some people believe it was the white helmets who were behind the gas attacks. Assad denies having anything to do with the gas attacks. I'm not saying that's true. I'm saying I don't know.
Our American leaders have butchered many civilians as well. Americans have been killed by their own bombs. Assad was responsible for less innocent deaths than some of our presidents.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
The gas attacks are hardly the only instance of civilians killed by pro-Assad forces
Well there's your next "ZOMG! LOOK AT THESE CRAZY AMERICANS" thread.
ronki23
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how credible this information is but here goes?
During the Arab springs of February 2011, Gaddafi openly admitted how he will always run Libya the way he wanted to and said that people who don't "love" him "do not deserve to live" and referred to the protesters as "cockroaches" and "rats", and vowed not to step down and to cleanse Libya house by house until the insurrection was crushed.
He retaliated to demonstrations firsty by water cannon but then began to use even more violent methods such as machine guns,artillery and missiles. As well as this, injured protestors were disallowed entries to the hospital or were euthanised via IV drip,blood or oxygen mask removal. 600–700 protesters were killed in Green Square in Tripoli on 20 February. Gaddafi's madness continued with the execution of unwilling soldiers (going to over 100) and (from both Gadaffi AND the rebels) genocides of the Blacks in Libya.
Gaddafi repressed his people heavily when it came to politics;talking about politics is illegal,there is a death penalty for forming a political party, executions and mutilations of dissidents in public, agents sent abroad to kill opposition politicians, people recruited to spy on their neighbours, and there is heavier censorship in Libya than in any other North African or Middle Eastern country. The only democracy in Libya is for local government council, all which are under Gaddafi anyway.
Funds from Libya's oil went to Gaddafi's bank accounts, foreign terrorist organizations, and fund the Gaddafi family's lavish lifestyle.
Libya had a 20.7% unemployment rate and 1/3 of Libyans living below the national poverty line.
Libyans only receive a decent education in math and science: history and politics are barely taught in an attempt to hide democracy and freedom in the West. Students are forced to learn Gaddafi's political ideology and read from his "Green Book". To be accepted into a University, Libyans must go before the Revolutionary Committees to prove their loyalty to Gaddafi.
A poor healthcare system forces Libyans to go abroad for decent medical treatment. Eastern Libya is largely ignored, with almost no new housing or infrastructure projects. As well as a dire economic situation in Eastern Libya, there is only one very old sewage facility in Benghazi, and untreated sewage has caused environmental problems.
For $1000 to $3000 dollars a day and an upfront payment of as much as $10,000; Gaddafi hired OVER 5000 mercenaries from: Ghana,Niger,Nigeria,Mali,Chad,Kenya,Uganda,Belarusians,Serbians and Slavs to add to his army (he did not trust a permanent home-grown army for he thought they may turn on him like many of them did in the past).
The war in Libya had 17,000 defecting soldiers, protestors and backing from USA,UK,France,NATO as well as: Canada,Spain,Greece,Italy,Denmark,Belgium,Bulgaria,Sweden,Netherlands,Turkey,Norway,Romania AND Albania and surprisingly FELLOW ARAB-MUSLIM countries of Jordan,Qatar and the UAE fighting Gaddafi's 20-40,000 soliders and militia. The war has killed over 1000 civilians and wounded over 4500. The total death count (both sides and civilians) stands at a staggering 25-30,000 dead and over 4000 missing!
Gaddafi supported 'The Last King of Scotland' Idi Amin, a maniacal dictator in Uganda who was known for being a cannibal and throwing so many corpses of opposition in the river that even the crocodiles and alligators were to full to eat them. Amin killed thousands and expelled all immigrants from Uganda; Gadaffi sent Libyan soldiers to (unsuccessfully) stop the Tanzanians from liberating Uganda; 600 of them died. He even married his daughter off to Amin.
Gaddafi made Libya fight Chad numerous times (1978, 1979, 1980–1981 and 1983–1987; Chadanian victory, 1000+ Chadanians killed, 7500+ Libyans killed and 1000 captured ),and once Egypt (1977;Egyptian victory, 1000+ Egyptians dead and wounded, 4000+ Libyans dead and wounded).
Gaddafi assisted Jean-Bédel Bokassa and Ange-Félix Patassé in Central Africa in return for 99-year lease from the latter to exploit all of that country's natural resources, including uranium, copper, diamonds, and oil.
On 11 June 1972, Gaddafi announced that any Arab wishing to volunteer for Palestinian terrorist groups "can register his name at any Libyan embassy and will be given adequate training for combat". He also promised financial support to them.
On 7 October 1972, Gaddafi praised the Lod Airport massacre , an attack on an Israeli airport by the communist Japanese Red Army (on behalf of Islamic extremists) that killed 26 and injured 79. He demanded Palestinian terrorist groups to carry out similar attacks.
Reportedly, Gaddafi was a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre, 5 Israeli athletes and 6 coaches killed by Palestinians at the 1972 Summer Olympics.
In 1976 after a series of terror activities by the Provisional IRA, Gaddafi announced that "the bombs which are convulsing Britain and breaking its spirit are the bombs of Libyan people. We have sent them to the Irish revolutionaries so that the British will pay the price for their past deeds". This was a reference to colonisation.
In April 1984, Libyan refugees in London protested against execution of two dissidents. MI5 interecepted communications that show that Tripoli ordered its diplomats to direct violence against the demonstrators. Libyan diplomats shot at 11 people and killed British policewoman Yvonne Fletcher. The incident led to the UK breaking of international relations for over 10 years.
In December 1985 the Rome and Vienna airport attacks killed 19 and wounded around 140, Gaddafi indicated that he would continue to support the Red Army Faction, the Red Brigades, and the Irish Republican Army as long as European countries support anti-Gaddafi Libyans.
In 1986, Libyan state television announced that Libya was training suicide squads to attack Americans and Europeans,
Gaddafi claimed the Gulf of Sidra as his territorial waters and his navy was involved in a conflict from January to March 1986.
On 5 April 1986, Libyan agents bombed "La Belle" nightclub in West Berlin, killing 3 people and injuring 229. Gaddafi's plan was intercepted by Western intelligence. Libyan agents who had carried out the operation from East Germany's Libyan embassy were prosecuted
Germany and the U.S. learned that the bombing in West Berlin had been ordered from Tripoli. On 14 April 1986, the U.S. carried out Operation El Dorado Canyon against Gaddafi's regime. Air defenses, army bases, and airfields in Tripoli and Benghazi were bombed. The surgical strikes failed to kill Gaddafi but he lost a few dozen military officers and he spread propaganda how it had killed his "adopted daughter" and the victims were all "civilians".
In the Philippines, Libya backed the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which continues to terrorize and murder people in the name of establishing a separatist Islamic state in the southern Philippines.
Libya has also supported the New People's Army and Libyan agents were seen meeting with the Communist Party of the Philippines.
Gaddafi became a strong supporter of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which support ultimately harmed Libya's relations with Egypt, when in 1979 Egypt pursued a peace agreement with Israel.
As Libya's relations with Egypt worsened, Gaddafi sought to improve relations with the Soviet Union. Libya became the first country outside the Soviet bloc to receive the supersonic MiG-25 combat fighters.
Gaddafi reportedly spent hundreds of millions of the regime's money on training and arming Sandinistas in Nicaragua.Daniel Ortega, the President of Nicaragua, was his ally.
In 1988, Gaddafi financed and assisted the Lockerbie Bombings, an explosion on a flight set from London Heathrow to New York's JFK airport. 270 people died that day.
In 1989, a flight between Congo and Paris (stopping off in Chad) exploded and crashed in Niger. 170 people died that day and the 6 terrorists responsible were Libyans (one of them being Gaddafi's brother-in-law).
That leads to a minimum total of 374 (303 from attacks in the West +1 in Lod, +70 in Niger) killed and 369 injured from Western (EU,USA,Canada) countries. 18 Puerto Ricans (Lod), 19 Israelis (Lod and Munich) and thousands,if not millions of Africans were killed under his regime.
Under Gaddafi there were some benefits to the people of Libya:
* Free electricity and water in homes
* No taxes
* One litre of fuel for under 10 pence.
* No interest rates in banks (Sharia law bans interest rates)
* Little national debt.
* Cars are sold for manufacturing costs (no profit added).
* The government pays some money to every student who wishes to study out of Libya, mainly in the form of his accommodation and his/her tuition fees
* Any post graduate receives a wage from the government until s/he finds a job.
* When people get married they get a piece of land up to 150 meters squared or a house.
* Each family in Libya receives 300 euros per month.
In 1999, Libya met UNSCR requirements by surrendering two Libyans suspected in connection with the Lockerbie bombing for trial before a Scottish court in the Holland. One of these suspects, Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, was found guilty; the other was acquitted. UN sanctions against Libya were then suspended. The full lifting of the sanctions was passed 12 September 2003, linked to the release of up to $2.7 billion in Libyan funds as compensation to the families of the 1988 attack's 270 victims.
In December 2003, Libya announced that it had agreed to reveal and end its programs to develop weapons of mass destruction and to renounce terrorism. Gaddafi met various Western European leaders and made his first trip to Western Europe in 15 years by going to Brussels in April 2004.
The U.S. rescinded Libya's designation as a state sponsor of terrorism in June 2006. In late 2007, Libya was elected by the General Assembly to a nonpermanent seat on the United Nations Security Council for the 2008–2009 term.
In October 2008 Libya paid a further $1.5 billion to the existing $2.7 compensation. The $1.5 billion was put into a fund used to compensate relatives of the
During the Arab springs of February 2011, Gaddafi openly admitted how he will always run Libya the way he wanted to and said that people who don't "love" him "do not deserve to live" and referred to the protesters as "cockroaches" and "rats", and vowed not to step down and to cleanse Libya house by house until the insurrection was crushed.
He retaliated to demonstrations firsty by water cannon but then began to use even more violent methods such as machine guns,artillery and missiles. As well as this, injured protestors were disallowed entries to the hospital or were euthanised via IV drip,blood or oxygen mask removal. 600–700 protesters were killed in Green Square in Tripoli on 20 February. Gaddafi's madness continued with the execution of unwilling soldiers (going to over 100) and (from both Gadaffi AND the rebels) genocides of the Blacks in Libya.
Gaddafi repressed his people heavily when it came to politics;talking about politics is illegal,there is a death penalty for forming a political party, executions and mutilations of dissidents in public, agents sent abroad to kill opposition politicians, people recruited to spy on their neighbours, and there is heavier censorship in Libya than in any other North African or Middle Eastern country. The only democracy in Libya is for local government council, all which are under Gaddafi anyway.
Funds from Libya's oil went to Gaddafi's bank accounts, foreign terrorist organizations, and fund the Gaddafi family's lavish lifestyle.
Libya had a 20.7% unemployment rate and 1/3 of Libyans living below the national poverty line.
Libyans only receive a decent education in math and science: history and politics are barely taught in an attempt to hide democracy and freedom in the West. Students are forced to learn Gaddafi's political ideology and read from his "Green Book". To be accepted into a University, Libyans must go before the Revolutionary Committees to prove their loyalty to Gaddafi.
A poor healthcare system forces Libyans to go abroad for decent medical treatment. Eastern Libya is largely ignored, with almost no new housing or infrastructure projects. As well as a dire economic situation in Eastern Libya, there is only one very old sewage facility in Benghazi, and untreated sewage has caused environmental problems.
For $1000 to $3000 dollars a day and an upfront payment of as much as $10,000; Gaddafi hired OVER 5000 mercenaries from: Ghana,Niger,Nigeria,Mali,Chad,Kenya,Uganda,Belarusians,Serbians and Slavs to add to his army (he did not trust a permanent home-grown army for he thought they may turn on him like many of them did in the past).
The war in Libya had 17,000 defecting soldiers, protestors and backing from USA,UK,France,NATO as well as: Canada,Spain,Greece,Italy,Denmark,Belgium,Bulgaria,Sweden,Netherlands,Turkey,Norway,Romania AND Albania and surprisingly FELLOW ARAB-MUSLIM countries of Jordan,Qatar and the UAE fighting Gaddafi's 20-40,000 soliders and militia. The war has killed over 1000 civilians and wounded over 4500. The total death count (both sides and civilians) stands at a staggering 25-30,000 dead and over 4000 missing!
Gaddafi supported 'The Last King of Scotland' Idi Amin, a maniacal dictator in Uganda who was known for being a cannibal and throwing so many corpses of opposition in the river that even the crocodiles and alligators were to full to eat them. Amin killed thousands and expelled all immigrants from Uganda; Gadaffi sent Libyan soldiers to (unsuccessfully) stop the Tanzanians from liberating Uganda; 600 of them died. He even married his daughter off to Amin.
Gaddafi made Libya fight Chad numerous times (1978, 1979, 1980–1981 and 1983–1987; Chadanian victory, 1000+ Chadanians killed, 7500+ Libyans killed and 1000 captured ),and once Egypt (1977;Egyptian victory, 1000+ Egyptians dead and wounded, 4000+ Libyans dead and wounded).
Gaddafi assisted Jean-Bédel Bokassa and Ange-Félix Patassé in Central Africa in return for 99-year lease from the latter to exploit all of that country's natural resources, including uranium, copper, diamonds, and oil.
On 11 June 1972, Gaddafi announced that any Arab wishing to volunteer for Palestinian terrorist groups "can register his name at any Libyan embassy and will be given adequate training for combat". He also promised financial support to them.
On 7 October 1972, Gaddafi praised the Lod Airport massacre , an attack on an Israeli airport by the communist Japanese Red Army (on behalf of Islamic extremists) that killed 26 and injured 79. He demanded Palestinian terrorist groups to carry out similar attacks.
Reportedly, Gaddafi was a major financier of the "Black September Movement" which perpetrated the Munich massacre, 5 Israeli athletes and 6 coaches killed by Palestinians at the 1972 Summer Olympics.
In 1976 after a series of terror activities by the Provisional IRA, Gaddafi announced that "the bombs which are convulsing Britain and breaking its spirit are the bombs of Libyan people. We have sent them to the Irish revolutionaries so that the British will pay the price for their past deeds". This was a reference to colonisation.
In April 1984, Libyan refugees in London protested against execution of two dissidents. MI5 interecepted communications that show that Tripoli ordered its diplomats to direct violence against the demonstrators. Libyan diplomats shot at 11 people and killed British policewoman Yvonne Fletcher. The incident led to the UK breaking of international relations for over 10 years.
In December 1985 the Rome and Vienna airport attacks killed 19 and wounded around 140, Gaddafi indicated that he would continue to support the Red Army Faction, the Red Brigades, and the Irish Republican Army as long as European countries support anti-Gaddafi Libyans.
In 1986, Libyan state television announced that Libya was training suicide squads to attack Americans and Europeans,
Gaddafi claimed the Gulf of Sidra as his territorial waters and his navy was involved in a conflict from January to March 1986.
On 5 April 1986, Libyan agents bombed "La Belle" nightclub in West Berlin, killing 3 people and injuring 229. Gaddafi's plan was intercepted by Western intelligence. Libyan agents who had carried out the operation from East Germany's Libyan embassy were prosecuted
Germany and the U.S. learned that the bombing in West Berlin had been ordered from Tripoli. On 14 April 1986, the U.S. carried out Operation El Dorado Canyon against Gaddafi's regime. Air defenses, army bases, and airfields in Tripoli and Benghazi were bombed. The surgical strikes failed to kill Gaddafi but he lost a few dozen military officers and he spread propaganda how it had killed his "adopted daughter" and the victims were all "civilians".
In the Philippines, Libya backed the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which continues to terrorize and murder people in the name of establishing a separatist Islamic state in the southern Philippines.
Libya has also supported the New People's Army and Libyan agents were seen meeting with the Communist Party of the Philippines.
Gaddafi became a strong supporter of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which support ultimately harmed Libya's relations with Egypt, when in 1979 Egypt pursued a peace agreement with Israel.
As Libya's relations with Egypt worsened, Gaddafi sought to improve relations with the Soviet Union. Libya became the first country outside the Soviet bloc to receive the supersonic MiG-25 combat fighters.
Gaddafi reportedly spent hundreds of millions of the regime's money on training and arming Sandinistas in Nicaragua.Daniel Ortega, the President of Nicaragua, was his ally.
In 1988, Gaddafi financed and assisted the Lockerbie Bombings, an explosion on a flight set from London Heathrow to New York's JFK airport. 270 people died that day.
In 1989, a flight between Congo and Paris (stopping off in Chad) exploded and crashed in Niger. 170 people died that day and the 6 terrorists responsible were Libyans (one of them being Gaddafi's brother-in-law).
That leads to a minimum total of 374 (303 from attacks in the West +1 in Lod, +70 in Niger) killed and 369 injured from Western (EU,USA,Canada) countries. 18 Puerto Ricans (Lod), 19 Israelis (Lod and Munich) and thousands,if not millions of Africans were killed under his regime.
Under Gaddafi there were some benefits to the people of Libya:
* Free electricity and water in homes
* No taxes
* One litre of fuel for under 10 pence.
* No interest rates in banks (Sharia law bans interest rates)
* Little national debt.
* Cars are sold for manufacturing costs (no profit added).
* The government pays some money to every student who wishes to study out of Libya, mainly in the form of his accommodation and his/her tuition fees
* Any post graduate receives a wage from the government until s/he finds a job.
* When people get married they get a piece of land up to 150 meters squared or a house.
* Each family in Libya receives 300 euros per month.
In 1999, Libya met UNSCR requirements by surrendering two Libyans suspected in connection with the Lockerbie bombing for trial before a Scottish court in the Holland. One of these suspects, Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, was found guilty; the other was acquitted. UN sanctions against Libya were then suspended. The full lifting of the sanctions was passed 12 September 2003, linked to the release of up to $2.7 billion in Libyan funds as compensation to the families of the 1988 attack's 270 victims.
In December 2003, Libya announced that it had agreed to reveal and end its programs to develop weapons of mass destruction and to renounce terrorism. Gaddafi met various Western European leaders and made his first trip to Western Europe in 15 years by going to Brussels in April 2004.
The U.S. rescinded Libya's designation as a state sponsor of terrorism in June 2006. In late 2007, Libya was elected by the General Assembly to a nonpermanent seat on the United Nations Security Council for the 2008–2009 term.
In October 2008 Libya paid a further $1.5 billion to the existing $2.7 compensation. The $1.5 billion was put into a fund used to compensate relatives of the
- Lockerbie bombing victims with the remaining 20%;
- American victims of the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing;
- American victims of the 1989 Congo-Niger plane bombing.
- Libyan victims of the 1986 US bombing of Tripoli and Benghazi.
Source? I don't trust what the NATO governments and their stooges in the corporate media had to say about Gaddafi and Libya. I followed the NATO attack on Libya on independent blogs and they reported a lot of stuff that wasn't covered in the mainstream media, like how the protesters were burning down police stations, how the rebels were committing racist massacres against black Libyans, ethnic cleaning, the creation of ghost towns, the illegal torture and murder of Gaddafi (an unarmed elderly man who was shot while pleading for mercy). The Western media did not cover the large rallies in support of Gaddafi, just like they don't cover the Syrian rallies in support of Assad. Those people do not want our "help". I think Gaddafi was a decent leader. He is one of my favorite African revolutionaries, alongside Thomas Sankara, who was also murdered in a Western-backed coup.
No, I'm convinced that stuff they said about Gaddafi was just propaganda to get the public to go along with another imperialist conquest to steal the resources of Libya and install a puppet government.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Great post!
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
But you trust random blog sites?
sooda
Veteran Member
Blasphemy!!!
Gaddafi took credit for all the social programs instituted by King Idris and threw out the Libyan constitution,
He was definitely a nutcase.. but the bigger problem is that he had NO education... and that gave rise to paranoia.
Once he drank rose water out of a finger bowl at a state dinner.. and threatened to assassinate the host.
I get news from a wide variety of sources.
sooda
Veteran Member
Did Hafez al-Assad use gas against his own people in Hama 35 years ago? He decided to exterminate the Muslim Brotherhood and killed thousands in early 1982.
About 30 years ago (maybe longer) there was a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) documentary on Libya. Gaddafi had set up a democratic system whereby people could all have an actual say in what went on in the country. There were a series of meetings, in villages, representatives went to larger groups, then those representatives went to larger groups, until it got to the countries main assembly. The interviewer, one Patrick Watson, definitely insinuated the west could learn a thing or two about democracy from the format.
Just sayin...
Edited ... the tendency is to polarize world leaders into 'all good' or 'all bad', when in reality it's a mixed bag of some good, some bad.
Just sayin...
Edited ... the tendency is to polarize world leaders into 'all good' or 'all bad', when in reality it's a mixed bag of some good, some bad.
Last edited:
Gaddafi did wonderful things for his country and his people but he ruled by terror crushing political opposition in the ultimate way.
He also sponsored terrorism particularly terrorism against the US and UK
He also sponsored terrorism particularly terrorism against the US and UK
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Plenty of Muslim countries were involved in the liberation of Libya so you can't say it was because the 'evil' West wanted oil.
As far as I know there were no allied troops on the ground and they banned the purchase of oil from Libya at the time.
Why Libya 2011 is not Iraq 2003 - CNN.com
As far as I know there were no allied troops on the ground and they banned the purchase of oil from Libya at the time.
Why Libya 2011 is not Iraq 2003 - CNN.com
sooda
Veteran Member
I lived in Libya for a while and have followed events very closely. My father was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya and the state Dept.
I know some are trying to reinvent Gaddafi as a good guy and make Obama and the US out to be villains ..
Gaddafi was crazy, vain, egotistical, ignorant and completely uneducated... He was a barefoot Bedouin boy from Sirte.
Obama and NATO were the "bad guys" when it came to that. We had no business overthrowing a sovereign government and installing a puppet government. We destroyed Libya and it's still in chaos. I don't care what you think about Gaddafi. I already have my views on him. There's no way you can argue that Libya is better off now. Iraq was also better off under Saddam and even Afghanistan was better off under the Taliban, despite how disgusting they are. Every time we set out to overthrow a government and nation build, it ends up being a disaster. We need to leave those people alone and focus on our own homeland.
sooda
Veteran Member
We didn't set up a puppet government in Libya. In order to keep Gaddafi in power would have required a huge occupation force.
sooda
Veteran Member
7 foreign oil companies had productive oil concessions in Libya before the war.