Existential Buddhism versus Theravada Buddhism

Shantanu said:

Buddha would not have known that he was God. God does not work like that in humanity. God works covertly at all times.
Secondly, no one is trying to hijack Buddhism: Sakyamuni Buddha was regarded rightly as an incarnation of God (Sri Krishna/Durga) by Hindus but Buddhism was forumlated to have more Buddhas reappearing from era to era to update knowledge based on the latest scientific discoveries so differences emerge in the different schools.

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So now you are claiming that Buddha was possessed?

crossfire said:

So now you are claiming that Buddha was possessed?

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One of the biggest things with Buddhism is to resist having your mind overcome by Mara/Kanha/The Dark One/Krishna.

crossfire said:

So now you are claiming that Buddha was possessed?

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You did say that acintya bhed abheda tatwa is not part of Mahayana Buddhism teachings that you follow, so you will not understand the power of possession of human beings that God has in order to force people to lead the lives that He requires of them. But acintya bhed abheda tatwa requires two-way interactions with God through day by day communications so that the person knows about God as God's intentions for humanity. This is why Buddha must have been possessed by God if he never acknowledged the existence of God.

crossfire said:

One of the biggest things with Buddhism is to resist having your mind overcome by Mara/Kanha/The Dark One/Krishna.

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That makes sense in the assertion that Buddha was destined to be replaced by another Buddha sooner or later if not numerous Buddhas.

Mahayana Zenmaster Thich Nhat Hanh wrote in his book Living Buddha, Living Christ that the Holy Spirit does not overcome ones mind, so was Buddha battling with an unholy spirit then?

Shantanu said:

This thread has been moved from Same Faith Debates to Religious Debates so you are free to contribute more widely on Sunyata as being the Ultimate Reality. So please elaborate on how reaching the 'perfection of wisdom' and realisation of sunyata are related. @Nowhere Man

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Read the Heart Sutra. Ring a bell. Light a stick of incense and sit it out. Experience dazzling pureness.

crossfire said:

Mahayana Zenmaster Thich Nhat Hanh wrote in his book Living Buddha, Living Christ that the Holy Spirit does not overcome ones mind, so was Buddha battling with an unholy spirit then?

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That is certainly worth consideration for on review it seems to me that only God (the Holy Spirit) can overcome a sattvic person's mind and that sattvic person has to be in total surrender to God by transcending the guna for God to even want to do so. There are also two other gunas in the Trimurti triad, namely rajasic and tamasic of which are the Deities of Vishnu and Shiva respectively: what you seem to be alluding to is that Buddha got his guidance from Shiva the tamasic Deity representing evil and that means lies and deception with ego. I do not now rule it out.

Nowhere Man said:

Read the Heart Sutra. Ring a bell. Light a stick of incense and sit it out. Experience dazzling pureness.

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The Heart Sutraas recited in the TriratnaBuddhist Community
The Bodhisattva of Compassion,
When he meditated deeply,
Saw the emptiness of all five skandhas
And sundered the bonds that caused him suffering.
Here then,Form is no other than emptiness,
Emptiness no other than form.
Form is only emptiness,
Emptiness only form.
Feeling, thought, and choice,
Consciousness itself,
Are the same as this.
All things are by nature void
They are not born or destroyed
Nor are they stained or pure
Nor do they wax or wane
So, in emptiness, no form,
No feeling, thought, or choice,
Nor is there consciousness.
No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind;
No colour, sound, smell, taste, touch,
Or what the mind takes hold of,
Nor even act of sensing.
No ignorance or end of it,
Nor all that comes of ignorance;
No withering, no death,
No end of them.
Nor is there pain, or cause of pain,
Or cease in pain, or noble path
To lead from pain;
Not even wisdom to attain!
Attainment too is emptiness.
So know that the Bodhisattva
Holding to nothing whatever,
But dwelling in Prajna wisdom,
Is freed of delusive hindrance,
Rid of the fear bred by it,
And reaches clearest Nirvana.
All Buddhas of past and present,
Buddhas of future time,
Using this Prajna wisdom,
Come to full and perfect vision.
Hear then the great dharani,
The radiant peerless mantra,
The Prajnaparamita
Whose words allay all pain;
Hear and believe its truth!
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha
Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate Bodhi Svaha

Shantanu said:

So please elaborate on how reaching the 'perfection of wisdom' and realisation of sunyata are related.

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Shantanu, you will need to read about Quantum Mechanics to understand that (and I am not making a joke).

InvestigateTruth said:

I believe, Buddha was a Messiah that Vaishnavites were expecting, but not all accepted Him, just as Jesus was a Messiah of the Jews, but not all accepted Him.

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IMHO, Hindus gave Buddha the highest honor they could think of, more than any Nobel prize, by making him an avatara of Lord Vishnu. They did this with many other sages, but called them amshavataras (incarnation of a part) or leelavatra (incarnation for a particular puspose); but Buddha, they made him into a full avatara. Of course, his legacy survives in Samkhya (Nireeshwaravda, the doctrine of non-existence of God) and Advaita (non-duality) philosophies.

Aupmanyav said:

Shantanu, you will need to read about Quantum Mechanics to understand that (and I am not making a joke). IMHO, Hindus gave Buddha the highest honor they could think of, more than any Nobel prize, by making him an avatara of Lord Vishnu. They did this with many other sages, but called them amshavataras (incarnation of a part) or leelavatra (incarnation for a particular puspose); but Buddha, they made him into a full avatara. Of course, his legacy survives in Samkhya (Nireeshwaravda, the doctrine of non-existence of God) and Advaita (non-duality) philosophies.

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As an advaitist Hindu I do not to relate my views to God as if the dharma that I profess are God-blessed and I adhere to that vow in stating that suffering is caused by material objectives and desires which must be curbed as craving; the promise of nirvana/enlightenment included.

Good, carry on.

crossfire said:

Two examples of attempts to hijack Buddhism. Buddha himself said he was not a god.

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According to quote from Buddha, He claimed to have appeared many times:

"I am not the first Buddha who came upon Earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time, another Buddha will arise in the world - a Holy One, a supremely enlightened ..."

This quote tells us, that, when this Buddha had appeared, He had told to the people that before Him, there were other Buddhas, which must have spoken of the next Buddha after each other. It is identical to the concept of Messiah, a futer saviour who is promised by a previous saviour.

Now, obviously, this idea that Buddha spoken of to the Hindus of His time, was not an unfamiliar idea. The Hindu Krishna, is recorded to have said the following:

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata (Arjuna), and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself."

do you see the similarities in the words of Buddha, and Krishna? There is no hijacking here. When Buddha spoke of previous and future Buddhas, the Hindus were already expecting a saviour, as Krishna had told them, He will ascend again, when righteousness disappears. Buddha appeared, when righteousness had disappeared and people were hoping their saviour comes to Them, as He had promised. The word Buddha, just means Enlightened One. It is not a given name, by parents. By this term was meant, no other than a Manifestation of God.

InvestigateTruth said:

do you see the similarities in the words of Buddha, and Krishna?

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"Kanha" is the Pali equivalent for Sanskrit "Krishna," (The Dark One.) Kanha (and his armies) is associated with Mara in the Pali suttas.

There is no hijacking here. When Buddha spoke of previous and future Buddhas, the Hindus were already expecting a saviour, as Krishna had told them, He will ascend again, when righteousness disappears.

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Again, Buddhism is about resisting Mara, the Dark One. You are supposed to think for yourself instead of having your mind overcome by groupthink.

Buddha appeared, when righteousness had disappeared and people were hoping their saviour comes to Them, as He had promised. The word Buddha, just means Enlightened One. It is not a given name, by parents. By this term was meant, no other than a Manifestation of God.

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Sure, there will be other self-enlightened beings like Buddha who will discover the dhamma on their own and teach it out of compassion. Buddhas are rare, however.

Shantanu said:

It is acknowledged that Buddhism as practiced worldwide in an organised fashion is attributed to Lord Buddha who was an avatar of Vishnu in the Das Avatar of Hindu mythology.

However, In Hindi or Sanskrit, the language of the Hindus, the term buddhi means intelligence and wisdom (combined).

So when we talk about the Faith of Buddhism we are referring to the use of our intelligence and wisdom to run our lives. That is why the Faith is called Buddhism and not Buddhaism. There is a major difference, as seen by Hindus who started this brand of theology.

The Buddha took an atheistic view of this reality and carved out Theravada Buddhism as the most original form of Buddhaism as I prefer to call it.

Many Hindu Buddhists are theists and practice Buddhism differently with a focus on worshipping God as a Personal Saviour God with whom one can have a one-to-one relationship with. There is still the focus on dharma as central to Hindu thought, but it is based on theistic reality.

So Hindus see true Buddhism as a science based religion that is termed Existential Buddhism

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Seems to me buddhism gets its name from Buddha who was a person, specifically the enlightened one, not the word BUDDHI. You misappropriated the word.

LuisDantas said:

apatheistic

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Word of the month. Thanks for that

Ayjaydee said:

Seems to me buddhism gets its name from Buddha who was a person, specifically the enlightened one, not the word BUDDHI. You misappropriated the word.

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For accuracy, Buddha is derived from ‘budh’ which means awake. His name was Gautama.
After his enlightenment he was walking on the road and a man passing stopped and asked “What are you ?”. Gautama replied “I am awake (budh)”. He became known as Buddha which means ‘awakened’.

Howard Is said:

For accuracy, Buddha is derived from ‘budh’ which means awake. His name was Gautama.
After his enlightenment he was walking on the road and a man passing stopped and asked “What are you ?”. Gautama replied “I am awake (budh)”. He became known as Buddha which means ‘awakened’.

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Agreed