Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?

Hockeycowboy said:

Lol! The Bible reveals some of the internal design, but that has no bearing on the outside dimensions, which are given.

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Except for the fact that the internal structure is required for the hull to withstand impact. That structure was injected into the test thus the test was a farce and proved nothing.

BTW, Dr. Seon W Hong, then Director of KRISO which performed the study, is not a supporter of the Bible. (Believes ‘life came from the sea.’) Your claim of bias is a faulty assumption.

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I doubt that given the injection of modern data all while pretending the test proved anything. Also your citation is just a screenshot thus unverified. More so the site is a crackpot on thus questionable.

sooda said:

She was by herself and had never had any prenatal care.. No one knew her. Her husband arrived after she was in crisis and being transfused.. He was VERY quick to call a JW lawyer in Atlanta.

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Was the lawyer successful in prosecuting the hospital or doctor?

I haven't exaggerated anything.. In fact, I have given you the soft version of events.

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You have given your own version of the events, according to your own evaluation of the story from your own perspective. What we need to balance any story is the other side. I wonder what the other side sounds like in this case?

She probably should have had her baby in the parking lot instead of threatening to wreck the career of the fine young doctor who saved her life.

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I am certain that threatening the career of a doctor was the furthest thing from her mind. Calling her a "charity case" obviously means that being poor eliminates your choices.....?

We have had many well meaning medicos tell us that we would die without blood, because that is what they are taught at medical school.....very few actually did. But it has been established that because of treating JW's without blood, and seeing the successful outcomes, that blood transfusion is no longer considered necessary, even in trauma cases. Blood compromises the immune system and hinders recovery. As long as the volume is maintained with saline, your own bone marrow will make up red cells quite rapidly, especially with the administration of EPO.

We have to understand that people die even after they have received blood.....sometimes because they have received blood. More people die after transfusions than ever die from refusing one. This is never revealed, but in balance, it should be.

Doctors have to respect any patient's right to refuse a treatment that violates their strongly held beliefs. Who would welcome their legal right to autonomy being taken away from them?

Put yourself in the position of having something done to you against your will because of someone forcing their will on you, regardless of their motive.

Do you value your freedom? Then value the freedom of others. We don't force our beliefs on anyone, when it comes to medical treatment. We each have the choice and that choice, even if it fights with what doctors personally believe, is ours to make.

Shad said:

That (internal) structure was injected into the test thus the test was a farce and proved nothing.

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Shad said:

I doubt.....

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Obviously, despite the compelling evidence:

1. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.

The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

When a Jehovah's Witnesses refuses a blood transfusion he or she isn't enjoying freedom. He or she is exercising obedience. To God's word? No! To the men of the governing body.

sooda said:

What sort of person stays with JW?

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JWs tend to home in on people who are in a vulnerable state. Their message sounds very appealing...God will soon eliminate all of the bad things, and any problems you are now encountering will be whisked away. The "free Bible study" is, in truth, a Watchtower indoctrination session where concepts initially seem to make a lot of sense and sound wonderful. As a person begins to accept these concepts, the foundation is built upon and these new concepts also appear to make sense.

When a Bible study first attends the meetings, they are basically "love bombed" by other congregation members, and they are made to feel like part of a loving family (sadly, this love often doesn't last once the person commits to the organization.)

Basically, the person is warned away from those who might discourage them and they are pulled closer to the group. For instance, if a Bible study's family becomes concerned and tries to discourage the potential JW recruit, the person is told that they are being "persecuted" because of their newfound faith, and that Jesus prophesied that his followers would have to endure such persecution. Concepts such as this tend to reinforce what the Bible study has been told--JWs have the truth--worldly people (including their own families) will object to their faith and "persecute" them by trying to lure them away from God.

And the indoctrination continues. Since JWs try to discourage association with those who are not JWs, the indoctrination is constantly reinforced. Once you are fully enmeshed in the JW organization, it is difficult to break away. Any sort of outside influence is strongly discouraged, and any who choose to disregard the "counsel" to stay away from "the world" are marginalized and labelled. Actions like that tend to reinforce the JW mindset.

It's difficult to break away...very difficult.

Hockeycowboy said:

Obviously, despite the compelling evidence:

1. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.

The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

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The injection of data not present in the Bible, internal structure, thus proved nothing about the Biblical Ark. It only show a modern Ark with modern design works. You have evidence of nothing about the Bible.

ManSinha said:

I have a similar personal story about a child of a family with one JW parent - we had to get a court order - to prevent the kid from dying - in order to transfuse - well one swallow does not a summer make - but when one hears repeated versions of the same story....

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This decision, like many others depends on the belief that blood transfusions are the best treatment in any medical management situation. It becomes especially emotive when children are involved. But is blood really life-saving?

This video from the Australian Blood Authority tells a different story....
For Media | National Blood Authority

Many experts in the field are coming to terms with their own experience with JW's. They have faster recovery with less complications than those who received transfusion as a routine part of treatment. If the experts in this field are sounding a warning, then we had better listen.

Because JW's are abreast of all medical updates on any treatment involving blood, we are the best judges of how our children, as well as ourselves should be treated. As I have said, there is no longer a strong attachment to blood as the treatment of choice for those in the medical profession who are concerned with best practice. Any doctor who insists on using blood is advertising the fact that he/she is stuck in the past with outdated medicine. We would avoid these doctors and find the ones who care about their patients as people, not just patients.

Giving children, or any patient a forced transfusion makes them complicit in an adverse outcome due to the complications of the procedure....of which there are many.

I will let the video (nothing to do with JW's) speak for itself....especially with regard to the scan revealing what a blood transfusion does in a patient's body as compared to a saline infusion.

Deeje said:

We are waiting for the (genuine) "returned Christ" because he will bring the rulership of God's Kingdom to this earth, not by human means but by means of God's spirit. How can you not see human governments collapsing?
If they are not financially bankrupt then they are morally bankrupt. Corruption is everywhere. Where are Baha'i's in all of this?

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A couple of areas I see Baha'is "are.. in all this":

First Baha'u'llah Himself back around 1868 urged world leaders of His time to form a world parliament and an international court of arbitration.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Secondly the Son of Baha'u'llah Abdul-Baha travelled to the United States and Europe in 1911 - 1912 urging international peace. I share a record of the Mohonk Peace Conference in New York:



In 1913 issue of the Star of the West:

The parliament of man
The eighth principle declares that there must needs be established the parliament of man or court of last appeals for international questions. The members of this arbitral court of justice will be representatives of all the nations. In each nation the members must be ratified by the government and the king or ruler, and this international parliament will be under the protection of the world of humanity. In it all international difficulties will be settled.
Universal education

(SOW - Star of the West, Star of the West - 3)

And third after WWI Abdul-Baha addressed a letter to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

"O ye esteemed ones who are pioneers among the well-wishers of the world of humanity![1]

The letters which ye sent during the war were not received, but a letter dated February 11th, 1916, has just come to hand, and immediately an answer is being written. Your intention deserves a thousand praises, because you are serving the world of humanity, and this is conducive to the happiness and welfare of all. This recent war has proved to the world and the people that war is destruction while universal peace is construction; war is death while peace is life; war is rapacity and bloodthirstiness while peace is beneficence and humaneness; war is an appurtenance of the world of nature while peace is of the foundation of the religion of God; war is darkness upon darkness while peace is heavenly light; war is the destroyer of the edifice of mankind while peace is the everlasting life of the world of humanity; war is like a devouring wolf while peace is like the angels of heaven; war is the struggle for existence while peace is mutual aid and co-operation among the peoples of the world and the cause of the good-pleasure of the True One in the heavenly realm."

Tablet to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

And most recently there is a International Baha'i Community that serves in an advisory capacity to the United Nations as a Non Governmental Organization (NGO). Learn more about the International Baha'i Community at Bahá’í International Community

The Bahá'í International Community, or the BIC, is an international non-governmental organization representing the members of the Bahá'í Faith; it was first chartered in March 1948 with the United Nations, and currently has affiliates in over 180 countries and territories.

adrian009 said:

I have no problem with a definition of a 'kind' as being a family of species that are closely inter-related and it can be demonstrated through adaptation over a brief period of time they were once the same species and have diversified. I accept Darwin's finches would come under that category and so it would not be necessary to have all the different species of finches on Noah's Ark. At least we have a defined starting point. So how many species can we reduce to? 1 million? 50,000?

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God knows because he chose them. All we have to go on is what Moses recorded in Genesis. If you want every detail, you will be disappointed. Just because science demands that evidence must comply with its current knowledge (which could all change with the next discovery) doesn't mean that God needs to answer to man for how he did anything. Those of faith know that God can do whatever he has a mind to do.....we can believe him or not.....but we understand that it makes little difference to God what we personally believe....it makes a huge difference to us though. You have to embrace something with a lot of certainty to stake your life on it. No?

The more we reduce the number of species so they can fit Noah's Ark, the bigger the next problem...fossils and carbon dating. If there are 2 million species now that evolved out of say 50,000 species then there would have been even more species before the flood. Fossil records would easily demonstrate a mass extinction event less than 6,000 years ago and then the proliferation of species from a single starting point...the Ark. Of course fossil records provide no evidence of such a narrative.

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Could that be because of misinterpretation of the "evidence"? How does science date things? What do they use?
How accurate is carbon dating when science has no belief in an event that could well have changed the readings of the carbon dating method and thrown them way off?

"All living things have carbon in their every body part, and while they are living they have the same proportion of carbon 14 as the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. When they cease to live and are buried and cut off from the atmosphere, the carbon 14 gradually decays and disappears. So if an old piece of wood or charcoal is exhumed, one can measure the proportion of carbon 14 remaining and tell how long ago it was part of a living tree.


Again, that is the theory. In practice, there are many things that can cause false readings. One thing that can easily spoil a sample is possible contamination with other materials that might contain carbon either older or younger.


The most serious question, especially about very old specimens, is whether the radiocarbon was in the same proportion in the atmosphere in ancient times as it is today. There is no way to be sure of this, because it depends upon cosmic ray showers, which are notably variable and sporadic. If, for instance, for some reason during mankind’s earliest history, the cosmic rays averaged only half the intensity they have today, any sample from that era would appear to be 5,500 years older than it really is.


Since we have no way of knowing how intense cosmic rays were in past ages, we are wise to accept carbon-14 dates only for the period for which the clock has been calibrated with historical materials, back to about 3,500 years ago. Older than that, they may be increasingly inaccurate."

How Old Are the Fossils? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

You can rely on science if you like....I'll rely on God because I trust him way more than I trust men of science, guessing their way through creation.....doing their best to discredit the Creator.

I agree that God does know what He's doing, all the more reason to reject the notion that God would destroy most of His creation because of the spiritually deaf and blind in Noah's day.

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Then you have to discount all the other times when God destroyed human life to reinforce the power of his perfect justice. The account about the Assyrian King Sennacherib thinking that his army had Israel right where they wanted them....like sitting ducks.....only for the King to awaken the next morning to find every last one of his soldiers dead. Executed by a single angel.

2 Kings 19:33-35....God foretold....
"He will not come into this city,” declares Jehovah.

34 “I will defend this city and save it for my own sake
And for the sake of my servant David.”’”
35 On that very night the angel of Jehovah went out and struck down 185,000 men in the camp of the As·syrʹi·ans. When people rose up early in the morning, they saw all the dead bodies."

Do you know why God brought the flood in the first place? What was accomplished by it? What was the point of wiping all life (apart from what was on the ark,) out of existence? If you understood what God accomplished and how this is a powerful parallel for these last days, you would know.

Hmmmm. Are you projecting?

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No, just showing you that it is hypocritical to call someone out on what they do themselves.
I follow the leading of my teachers and I am satisfied that what they teach is as true and correct as anything can be in this system of things. It is after all, "food at the proper time" meaning that we get what we need, when we need it.

You follow the teachings of your prophet as well, even the daily rituals, so how is what we do considered to be out of place when Baha'is do the same thing themselves? You guys quote him all the time.

I agree that you don't have any trouble believing the story of Noah's Ark.

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But you don't agree that Jesus said it would happen again when he came back.....how did this prove true when your prophet walked the earth? (Matthew 24:37-39) I don't see it. How did "they take no note until the flood come and sweep them all away" when Baha'ullah was claiming to be "Christ returned"? When is Matthew 25:31-46 fulfilled?

I haven't mentioned anything about macroevolution of course but on a slightly related topic how do you account for evidence of the first human's being around 100,000 if Adam was the first man?

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Easy, I don't accept that science has the dates correct. Humans were the last on the earthly scene....the Bible gives a good description of the order in which living things appeared and it doesn't deny that the earth itself is millions of years old. Science knows too that the universe has not always existed.

So, an old earth, and a slow and deliberate creation process over millions of years explains everything to me. It tells me that all creatures who came before man can indeed be millions of years old.
I really don't care what the scientists think about how life evolved.....I don't believe it did. I see evidence for adaptation among the many species that exist, but that is a far cry from imagining what adaption "might have" done if certain conditions were met. I believe that science is stabbing in the dark with all of that.

I too am speaking the truth as I see it and responding in kind. But when you make statements about those who misrepresent the God of the Bible I do see more than a little irony.

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Baha'i take other people's scripture and reinterpret it to suit their own belief system. How is that not plagiarism?
The irony to me is that you give Islam precedence over the Jewish religion when the Bible clearly states that Isaac, not Ishmael was the one through whom the Messiah would come.....and then they try to cram all faiths and prophets into one religion, as if it all emanated from the same God....the Bible shows how impossible that is. God punished Israel for worshipping other gods......Look at the first three of the 10 Commandments. (Exodus 20:1-6)

You really do despise those who have left the JWs. I can see some altruism and sincerity in why they would want to warn others of the risk of joining the JW movement. Perhaps you know their beliefs better than I do. They certainly know a lot about their former faith.

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Those who have left are aware of what that means in our brotherhood. If they want a "divorce" then they are free to go, but the ones attached to them are then tested as to their own loyalty to Jehovah...especially is this true of those who try their best to slander their former associates. Family members then have some difficult decisions to make. (Matthew 10:34-37)

Anyone is free to leave if they find some grounds on which to lose their faith....its not the ones who just leave (though this always saddens us) who present a problem...its the ones who turn apostate and slander their former brothers by telling half truths about their own "sad" experiences. You do not have the full picture and you never will by listening to "ex's". This is why Jesus said that 'we will be judged as we judge others'.

Jesus said that whatever we do to Christ's "brothers", we do to him. The dissenters may be fully convinced in their justifications.....but the Jews were too. If they are fully bent on doing us harm, then they should be aware that no one who is "drawn" by God will take notice of a thing they say......they will just be preaching to the converted.......this is why we don't miss them.

I once thought that JW's were terrible people too, after listening to a guy at work whose wife had become a Witness. It wasn't until I met them...and his wife that I realized what a load of rubbish he was spouting. His version of events was nothing close to the truth. He had skewed the story to make people feel sorry for him. I heard both sides of that story and I understood how easy it is to judge on the testimony of one disgruntled person.

Those who play the victim are just pathetic IMV. They burn their bridges and then complain that they have nowhere to go. If they return to Christendom, then it cannot be with a complete heart because once you learn the truth, you can't "unlearn" it. They cannot agree with one another so they never get together to create their own "right" religion. So all they do is sit and whine about how unfair it all is...and how they know better than the governing body. We will leave them to the appointed judge to deal with, in the meantime we will get on with what Jesus commanded us to do.....(Matthew 28:19-20)

Shad said:

It only show a modern Ark with modern design works.

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Exactly! The Ark built by Noah, has modern ratios of those dimensions, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel to maintain stability!
Grief!

Shad said:

You have evidence of nothing about the Bible.

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Uh...those ratios of the Ark are found in the Bible! How much clearer can it be made?!

Wow!

sooda said:

This was 1990 .. and she dropped in the ER instead of having her 5th child in the parking lot. She was bleeding out and couldn't consent. Thank God she survived.. My young board certified OB/GYN could not stand by and let her die.

Yes, morning after morning in spite of being politely turned away the first time. Twice at 7 AM they let my dog out. I finally had to call the police.

The second location was an apartment complex.. .. again the police had to get involved .. NO soliciting means NO soliciting.

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I'm surprised that JWs would have been out in field service at 7 a.m. That's unusual for sure, although I suppose there are some JWs who would do that.

As far as the no soliciting thing is concerned... When I was still a JW, we were instructed to ignore "No Soliciting" signs because our work was not considered to be soliciting. At that time, we were also instructed to ignore "No Trespassing" signs because we supposedly had a right to be on the property and were not trespassers. From what I understand, JWs now do respect "No Trespassing" signs. Don't know why the change came about, though.

Deeje mentioned that all you need to do to keep JWs from knocking on your door is to politely tell them not to bother you. That's not entirely correct. If you tell one pair of JWs not to bother you, that doesn't mean that a different group of JWs working that territory would know anything about what you told the JWs who visited previously.

What you can do is to call the local Kingdom Hall and ask to be put on the "Do Not Call" list. That should keep the JWs from knocking on your door...but only for a year. After a year, they will start to call again because the thinking goes that you might have moved and the new people deserve a chance at salvation, or you might have had a change of heart and would now welcome their visits.

It's not much, but it could give you a slight reprieve.

arthra said:

A couple of areas I see Baha'is "are.. in all this":

First Baha'u'llah Himself back around 1868 urged world leaders of His time to form a world parliament and an international court of arbitration.

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

Secondly the Son of Baha'u'llah Abdul-Baha travelled to the United States and Europe in 1911 - 1912 urging international peace. I share a record of the Mohonk Peace Conference in New York:

In 1913 issue of the Star of the West:

The parliament of man
The eighth principle declares that there must needs be established the parliament of man or court of last appeals for international questions. The members of this arbitral court of justice will be representatives of all the nations. In each nation the members must be ratified by the government and the king or ruler, and this international parliament will be under the protection of the world of humanity. In it all international difficulties will be settled.
Universal education

(SOW - Star of the West, Star of the West - 3)

And third after WWI Abdul-Baha addressed a letter to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

"O ye esteemed ones who are pioneers among the well-wishers of the world of humanity![1]

The letters which ye sent during the war were not received, but a letter dated February 11th, 1916, has just come to hand, and immediately an answer is being written. Your intention deserves a thousand praises, because you are serving the world of humanity, and this is conducive to the happiness and welfare of all. This recent war has proved to the world and the people that war is destruction while universal peace is construction; war is death while peace is life; war is rapacity and bloodthirstiness while peace is beneficence and humaneness; war is an appurtenance of the world of nature while peace is of the foundation of the religion of God; war is darkness upon darkness while peace is heavenly light; war is the destroyer of the edifice of mankind while peace is the everlasting life of the world of humanity; war is like a devouring wolf while peace is like the angels of heaven; war is the struggle for existence while peace is mutual aid and co-operation among the peoples of the world and the cause of the good-pleasure of the True One in the heavenly realm."

Tablet to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

And most recently there is a International Baha'i Community that serves in an advisory capacity to the United Nations as a Non Governmental Organization (NGO). Learn more about the International Baha'i Community at Bahá’í International Community

The Bahá'í International Community, or the BIC, is an international non-governmental organization representing the members of the Bahá'í Faith; it was first chartered in March 1948 with the United Nations, and currently has affiliates in over 180 countries and territories.

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I look forward to meeting him and his father, Bahá’u’lláh, in the Resurrection!

Hockeycowboy said:

Why should I talk to you? (The answers are clear, in those links.) You reneged on your promise to Jehovah. You’ll have to deal w/ Him.

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Correction...leaving a man-made organization has absolutely nothing to do with reneging on a promise to Jehovah. I do understand that the current baptism vows do include a promise to that man-made organization, but the organization is NOT Jehovah and leaving that organization has absolutely NOTHING to do with a promise made to God.

arthra said:

after WWI Abdul-Baha addressed a letter to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

"O ye esteemed ones who are pioneers among the well-wishers of the world of humanity![1]

The letters which ye sent during the war were not received, but a letter dated February 11th, 1916, has just come to hand, and immediately an answer is being written. Your intention deserves a thousand praises, because you are serving the world of humanity, and this is conducive to the happiness and welfare of all. This recent war has proved to the world and the people that war is destruction while universal peace is construction; war is death while peace is life; war is rapacity and bloodthirstiness while peace is beneficence and humaneness; war is an appurtenance of the world of nature while peace is of the foundation of the religion of God; war is darkness upon darkness while peace is heavenly light; war is the destroyer of the edifice of mankind while peace is the everlasting life of the world of humanity; war is like a devouring wolf while peace is like the angels of heaven; war is the struggle for existence while peace is mutual aid and co-operation among the peoples of the world and the cause of the good-pleasure of the True One in the heavenly realm."

Tablet to the Central Organization for a Durable Peace, The Hague

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We believe what the Bible says about the establishment of world peace.....it will never be brought about by man. This goes without saying because in all the thousands of years that man has been trying different forms of government, (Most especially in 20th-21st centuries) he has not to date, found one that works for the good of all. The old adage proves true time and again...."power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Humans do not possess the capacity for self-rule because God did not design us that way. We are designed to be ruled by our Maker. That is the whole reason why humans have been given the opportunity to try whatever they can think up, because Adam and his wife were convinced in the beginning that making their own decisions was a good idea.....but it has all failed. There is just one form of rulership yet to try according to the Bible.....

And most recently there is a International Baha'i Community that serves in an advisory capacity to the United Nations as a Non Governmental Organization (NGO). Learn more about the International Baha'i Community at Bahá’í International Community

The Bahá'í International Community, or the BIC, is an international non-governmental organization representing the members of the Bahá'í Faith; it was first chartered in March 1948 with the United Nations, and currently has affiliates in over 180 countries and territories.

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The Bible confirms that a single world government will be attempted under the auspices of what we believe is the UN. After the first World War, nations wanting an end to the horror of that kind of warfare, suggested a mechanism for world peace and formed the "League of Nations". It was a toothless tiger from its beginnings, not really a force for peace at all because of humans fighting for their own sovereignty. The second World War killed the failed "peacemaker" and plunged the world into another conflict more heinous than the first. Out of the ashes of WW2, where we saw for the first time man's capacity for self destruction, came the "United Nations". (Luke 21:10-11) We have not experience real peace since then.

In all its years of existence, we have not seen an end to man's inhumanity to man....things have simply escalated and will continue into what the Bible describes as...."on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” (Luke 21:25-28)

This is when Christ returns to "deliver" his disciples. He admonished them...."But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you 35 as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:34-36)

This last man-made government encompassing the power of all nations will be a failure like all the rest. Its rule will lead to absolute chaos. God's Kingdom will then "come" and it will eliminate all the inept human governments and replace them with a Theocratic Government that will rule the whole earth. (Daniel 2:44) All dissenters will be eliminated from existence and only those who are found "doing the will of God" will remain. (Matthew 7:21-23)

King David wrote....Psalm 37:8-11....

"Let go of anger and abandon rage;
Do not become upset and turn to doing evil.

9 For evil men will be done away with,
But those hoping in Jehovah will possess the earth.

10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more;
You will look at where they were,
And they will not be there.


11 But the meek will possess the earth,
And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace."

This is the promise that God makes for those who obey him. It does not depend on men at all.

Deeje said:

This decision, like many others depends on the belief that blood transfusions are the best treatment in any medical management situation. It becomes especially emotive when children are involved. But is blood really life-saving?

This video from the Australian Blood Authority tells a different story....
For Media | National Blood Authority

Many experts in the field are coming to terms with their own experience with JW's. They have faster recovery with less complications than those who received transfusion as a routine part of treatment. If the experts in this field are sounding a warning, then we had better listen.

Because JW's are abreast of all medical updates on any treatment involving blood, we are the best judges of how our children, as well as ourselves should be treated. As I have said, there is no longer a strong attachment to blood as the treatment of choice for those in the medical profession who are concerned with best practice. Any doctor who insists on using blood is advertising the fact that he/she is stuck in the past with outdated medicine. We would avoid these doctors and find the ones who care about their patients as people, not just patients.

Giving children, or any patient a forced transfusion makes them complicit in an adverse outcome due to the complications of the procedure....of which there are many.

I will let the video (nothing to do with JW's) speak for itself....especially with regard to the scan revealing what a blood transfusion does in a patient's body as compared to a saline infusion.

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Why do JWs constantly fixate on surgical procedures when it comes to the issue of blood transfusions? Yes, the medical profession is learning better procedures in performing surgery that negate the need for a blood transfusion. IMO, a surgical procedure that is performed without the use of a blood transfusion is preferable to one where a blood transfusion is used--unless some problem has occurred that might make a blood transfusion a necessity.

However, an elective surgical procedure is vastly different from a case where the person is bleeding out. Saline is simply not going to cut it and, despite the dangers of a blood transfusion, that transfusion is the ONLY thing that will give the patient a fighting chance at survival. Any JW that has been in a situation where there was massive blood loss has almost certainly died by refusing a transfusion. Deeje seems to believe that such is not the case. Perhaps she can provide statistics of JWs that have survived massive blood loss without a transfusion?

If anyone can find another Organization serving Jehovah, and doing His will which includes preaching the Good News of the Kingdom (Matthew 24:14), they should post it. - 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9b... Jehovah’s desire / will, is that “all come to an accurate knowledge”; “all should come to repentance.” Both require preaching! Cf. Matthew 7:21

Hockeycowboy said:

If anyone can find another Organization serving Jehovah, and doing His will which includes preaching the Good News of the Kingdom (Matthew 24:14), they should post it. - 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9b... Jehovah’s desire / will, is that “all come to an accurate knowledge”; “all should come to repentance.” Both require preaching! Cf. Matthew 7:21

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Are Jehovah's Witnesses the only group that preach the good news? If that was the case, what accounts for the growth of other religions and Christianity becoming the largest religious group globally? Can the largely unknown message distributed by 8 million Witnesses really be thought of as having more relevance to Jesus prophecy than the spread of Christianity by Catholics that has resulted in over 1 billion members?

I am constantly preached to by Christians. I have had Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists, Christadelphians and people from the local Catholic Church come to my house. There have been Christians at different companies I have worked that discuss their beliefs with me. When I was at university there were Christian Campus groups, and when I was a tax accountant several of my clients were involved in missionary work. Christians have approached me in the street, or assemble as groups to sing and give public lectures in the local mall. On television, radio stations and the Internet there is no shortage of religious discussion.

It is incorrect to imply that only Jehovah's Witnesses preach. Following are just some notable examples of religions actively engaged in preaching.

Both Mormons and Seventh-day Adventists started at a similar period of time as the Watchtower Society and have similar numbers of members due to their active preaching. Seventh-day Adventists successfully preach the good news, including at peoples homes. See the following quote from the Seven Day Adventist Church Manual:

"Our highest responsibility is to the church and its commission to preach the gospel of the kingdom to all the world." Chapter 13

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Do only Jehovah's Witnesses follow Jesus' command to Preach

Take your pick HC. Here are a few to choose from. I'm sure that you could find more if you cared to look.

JEHOVAH, not Jesus or a Trinity! Please!!!