Looncall
Well-Known Member
Yes, people like to outsource their thinking. Religions are handy for that. Whether relgious notions are actually true seems not to matter.
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Yes, people like to outsource their thinking. Religions are handy for that. Whether relgious notions are actually true seems not to matter.
exchemist
Veteran Member
I don't know about women's rights but there are certainly churches in muslim countries. The open air Sunday mass in Dubai in the 1980s was quite a spectacle: thousands of Goans and Filipinos, plus a sprinkling of Europeans.
Pastek
Sunni muslim
Not living in a muslim country, so I don't know if some people have difficulties to practice their religion.
This is a good question and maybe someone living in a muslim country can explain to us how is the reality for a non-abrahamic religion in particular.
This is very important because there's more and more people expatriating in muslim countries (UAE, Morocco, Turkey, etc)
I just want to precise that Christianity and Judaism are allowed in muslim countries.
They have in general someone who represents them ( a rabbi, a priest ) if they have specific rules like inheritence for exemple.
They are not forced to follow the islamic rules for some matters.
Also they are allowed to eat or drink and sell things not allowed to muslims like alcohool, pork.
So they can practice.
They also have their festivals. Of course it may be difficult to practice openly in some countries more than in others.
As for women equal rights I think we can name Turkey, Tunisia, not sure about Morocco but there's have been a lot of progress those last 20 years in this country. I think Lebanon is in the same level as Morocco or a little better.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
That's right, that even in to days world, Muslims still are following Muhammad's forceful conversion on People.
ecco
Veteran Member
Let's remember that Christians are not above resorting to force to promote Christianity.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Let's Remember that there is no where in the New Testament that Christ Jesus promotes the force of Christianity on anyone.
As Christ Jesus said himself, to go and teach all nation's.
As Christ Jesus did not say go out and forcefully people into Christianity.
I hear this argument all the time, and it dumbfounds me. It seems to be a variation on the "two wrongs make it right" defense. So, while I agree that Christianity has major flaws (and I mean REALLY major), why can't we criticize a single religion on its own merits?
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with that but Christians are huge hypocrites when they do it. They forced more people into Christianity than Muslims ever have into Islam. They conquered entire continents through force and committed genocide against the indigenous peoples. So a Christian trying to degrade Islam for being violent makes me just want to slap them in the face for being so ridiculous.
exchemist
Veteran Member
There you are.
Jordan has churches too and so do Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey. I expect there are others. Indonesia?
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
Just because something is built once - does not mean it always stands - IIRC there is mention of the Temple mount being destroyed in the OT
The history of Northern India is replete with instance of Muslim rulers destroying temples perhaps to demoralize the local population
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ecco
Veteran Member
ecco said: ↑
Let's remember that Christians are not above resorting to force to promote Christianity.
You do know about the Crusades, don't you?
You do know about the Inquisitions, don't you?
You do know what American Christians did to Native American children, don't you?
It all started very early...
Forced conversion - Wikipedia
Let's remember that Christians are not above resorting to force to promote Christianity.
But it really doesn't matter what Jesus did or did not say. What matters is what people did "In Jesus' Name"
You do know about the Crusades, don't you?
You do know about the Inquisitions, don't you?
You do know what American Christians did to Native American children, don't you?
It all started very early...
Forced conversion - Wikipedia
In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted religion into one capable of persecution and sometimes eager to persecute.
It is Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans.... The rest, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative (Codex Theodosianus XVI 1.2.).[14]
It is Our will that all the peoples who are ruled by the administration of Our Clemency shall practice that religion which the divine Peter the Apostle transmitted to the Romans.... The rest, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retribution of Our own initiative (Codex Theodosianus XVI 1.2.).[14]
That's a great point. As an anti-theist I feel free to criticize both without feeling hypocritical.
Pastek
Sunni muslim
You're right.
Except that Islam recognizes previous Abrahamic religions not Hinduism.
But your thread is interesting because in Dubaï there's a lot of hindous and bouddhists but what about their temples ?
Building a chuch or a synaguogue for me it's nothing surprising but something else I doubt it.
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
And you find that ok?
I did mention the Sikh place of worship in Dubai - in my post above #28
Cooky
Veteran Member
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Cooky
Veteran Member
There... I fixed your distractions from the topic. You're welcome.
We have groups in
The theological justification seems to hardly matter to those that believe this. If they can find something in their scripture to support their beliefs, they'll of course us that. If they can't, they'll fall back on "we are the Truth and it is thus our right to rule according to what we believe is the Truth".
The question to me becomes "how do we prevent such "true believers" from trying to turn nations back into outmoded and obsolete systems?
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
With all due respect sir - it is not just the fringe Islamic elements - I have seen, in my all too brief time here, the same kind of posturing from others as well - I guess I have to be thankful that they live in what are considered civilized societies - and cannot use more than words to compel
Altfish
Veteran Member
Well my statement includes Islam but also Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, etc.