Michael Jackson and the Media (racism ? conspiracy ?)

Sorry if that's a little bit long but it's not just about MJ but also Justice, Medias and Racism.


As many of you know, there's a "documentary" called Leaving Neverland which aired in the US and the UK and will be in many other countries.

I've read recently a book called "The conspiracy against Michael Jackson" by the journalist Aphrodite Jones.
In her book, there's some part about what was said during the trial of 2005 and clearly the family of the boy (The Arvizo) are con artists.
At the time of the verdict the Medias (and until now) never explained anything about that family, only the supposed accusations of molestations against MJ. They didn't give any details to the public and this let some of us think that Michael Jackson was maybe vindicated but "there's no smoke without fire".
Until now many people doubt about the innocence of MJ.
Even though there was a raid in his house and the FBI investigated secretly for over 10 years. Yet they found nothing.

Just few extracts of the book concerning the trial of Michael Jackson so you can judge by yourselves (about the accusers) and then tell me your opinion :

Attorney : Now, how aggressive was David (Arvizo- the father) in asking for money ?
Comedian Georges Lopez from Laught Factory : "You know it was pretty aggressive. When you're two guys talking, and the subject always comes up , you know, you kind of get turned off to it.
Every time we spoke , it was always about -really about money"

Then he talked about how Gavin (the son) was asking him to buy a lot of things : "Gavin was pointing to all kind of items and was asking for everything he laid his eyes on" - "expensive items"

Then the comedian explains how after inviting the family in his house the father tried to trick him (he hided a wallet and said he lost a lot of money), and how after that he kept insisting about money for his son but in an aggressive manner. So Lopez stopped talking to this family.

Concerning the mother Janet Arvizo :

"a year and a half after the Jackson trial ended, in November of 2006 , Janet Arvizo pled guilty to defrauding the American taxpayers by falsely appliying for welfare"

"Janet's allegation that she was being held as a prisoner at Neverland, her assertion that she and her kids were being kept hidden from mysterious "killers" , seemed far-fetched and nutty, especially since records were brought into evidence that proved that Janet Arvizo was charging thousand of dollars worth of makeup, beauty products and beauty treatments to Michael Jackson Neverland Valley Entertainement business account during February of 2003"

Then the book talks about her supposed sexual agression and a civil case against the company (JC Penney).
She testified with her sons (supposed witness)and earned 152,000$.
"She admitted that they were "inaccuracies" in her JC Penney deposition"


The attorney (about Janet Arvizo and her lawyer M. Feldman) : Did Mr Feldman say anything about the Michael Jackson case ?
Larry King : (...) "He thought the mother in that case was a wacko. And he thought she was in it just for the money. He had met with her. He didn't want to represent her"


"Chris Tucker told jurors that he wired $1,500 to the Arvizo after Gavin approached him for money, after Gavin explained there was not enought money funds raised from the benefit"

And the book explained many people gave money to the family. And the family always complaining they have not enought money for Gavin. But they discovered later that the medical bills for Gavin were entirely covered by his dad's medical insurance !

Chris Tucker : I observed a lot of stuff but i always gave them the benefit of the doubt. I felt sorry for Gavin.
Attorney Mesereau : Do you think they were taking advantage of you ?
Chris Tucker : I was hoping they weren't but when it got back to me, yeah. That's what it looked like

"He (Gavin) was really smart , and he was cunning at times"
"Always stuff like 'Chris let me have this. Let me get that. Come on, I'm not feeling good'.
"And I knew he was going too far but I always said 'he's sick you know'. So I just overlooked it"

Attorney Mesereau : Did you recall saying anything to Michael in his room (In Miami) ? Did you discuss the Arvizo with him ?
Chris Tucker : I just told him to watch out for Janet (Arvizo) because I felt suspicious about her"
"And then I was trying to talk to Michael but she was always interrupting. I didn't know why she was doing it.
"And then I tried to pull Michael in the room and I said 'You need to watch out. Just be careful'"

"She was frantically saying Michael is the father, I'm the brother. I took him in the room and I said 'something ain't right'. I said 'Mike, something ain't right'"



Of course, we all know it's strange for a man to sleep in the same room with children. But the question is "Did he do something to those kids ?"

In the new case with the 2 new accusers I just let you see by yourselves.
By the way, I'm not saying i know how an abused person is supposed to react after many years of abuse.
I'm just talking about facts, about too many different versions.

So for those who don't know, few details about those 2 accusers : Wade Robson and James Safechuk.

-Both testified under oath that MJ never did anything to them during the 2005 trial.
-Wade Robson said : He never forget what MJ did and in another version that he didn't recall being molested until he had a therapy in 2013.
-James Safechuk said : He didn't recall being abused before he heard about Wade's abuse (so in 2013)
-The mother of James S. said : she was happy in 2009 when MJ died so he can't hurt any children. But her son said he "remembered only in 2013" ...
-James S. said : that MJ abused him in 1988 in Euro Disney land. But Euro Disney opened in 1992 !


Do you think the Medias have a problem with Michael Jackson ?

In general, do you think it's ethical to give credit to people having a lot a flaws (lies, fraud) in their depositions/trials/past yet because they claim to be "victims" the other side (MJ) is ignored ? Is it justice ?

Do you think that's because he's black ?
That's what some people are saying : T.I, Nick Cannon, Mon'ique and others.

Also many accused Oprah Winfrey to hold a special show "After Neverland" while they say she isn't saying anything againt Winstein because he was her friend. And because he is white. And because she is friend with people in position of Power.
Also that she implied by doing this special show that MJ is guilty. In her social medias she even said "It's time to say another time good bye to Michael Jackson".

Thoughts ?

In conclusion, he was a great performer, perhaps the best. He was flawed, so likely human. Did he do sexual things to kids and visitors? That is unproven. He's dead, give it a rest.

A conspiracy for what purpose?

I never believed the accusations against him. I tried watching Leaving Neverland, found it boring and unconvincing and turned it off. They told their sob stories but there's no proof of it. It's not like with R. Kelly, where there's multiple sex tapes of him assaulting underage girls and his predatory behavior was known for a few decades with a multitude of victims. Weinstein and Cosby also come to mind where there was a bunch of evidence over decades. With MJ? Nothing. Just hearsay.

I've had trouble believing the allegations too ever since LaToya Jackson made up "proof"... he hasn't been convicted in court despite almost all media turning on him. I don't know about a conspiracy, it's more like how unethical media like to make their money.

There have been rumours about his behaviour towards children for years; I recall he performed at some UK music awards probably 15 or 20 years ago and he performed on stage with children. As a protest Jarvis Cocker (lead singer with Pulp) ran on stage and 'mooned' at him.

He's here on video of it...

I say until we know the truth, he shouldn't be allowed to make any new albums or have any unsupervised access to children!

Stanyon said:

A conspiracy for what purpose?

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Well for the rapper T.I it's a conspiracy against black culture. He says the medias are after black people in particular.

'If y’all pulling up all our old sh**... we gotta examine ELVIS PRESLEY, HUGH HEPHNER,and a whole slew of others guilty of the same if not more!!!
'BUT WHY US all the time? There’s an agenda to destroy OUR CULTURE.'

TIP on Instagram: “Pierce Morgan a real one for this. Let this man speak for himself to defend his legacy. Don’t just listen to one side and expect to find…”

For others they think some powerful people like Oprah tend to hide other powerful people in Hollywood who are paedophiles/sexual abusers.
Weinstein was her friend, his trial is coming, there was also a documentary in the Sundance Festival about him but she didn't talked about it.
Also she was watching the "documentary" Leaving Neverland in a yacht the day of her birthday and people found that very strange with David Geffen a powerful man.
So people think Oprah tried to distract people with MJ new accusations.

"Oprah Winfrey flew down to St Barts on Monday to celebrate her 65th birthday aboard the megayacht Rising Sun, owned by her close friend David Geffen"
"After enjoying some birthday cake on Tuesday, the group watched the Michael Jackson sexual assault documentary Leaving Neverland "

Oprah celebrates birthday in St Barts aboard David Geffen's $300M yacht, watches Leaving Neverland | Daily Mail Online

"(...) he [Mark Collins-Rector] and his two business partners (...) hosted lavish parties attended by Hollywood’s gay A-list.
Their guests included relative newcomer Bryan Singer, now the director of the X-Men movies, and legendary media mogul David Geffen, both of whom were investors in DEN.
It was at those parties that Collins-Rector and others allegedly sexually assaulted half a dozen teenage boys, according to two sets of civil lawsuits, the first filed in 1999–2002 and the second this year.

"Geffen was not accused of any misconduct in the suits nor named as a defendant. His attorney said that Geffen on occasion was a guest at parties given by DEN investors but recalls no one at them who appeared to be under age."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...e-heart-of-the-hollywood-sex-abus#.kbReDgMKz2


"Geffen who is famous for his decades-long, and very ugly, feuds. Geffen did not play nice"

The spectacular rise and fall of DreamWorks

David Geffen is a powerful person in Hollywood and wasn't in good term with Michael Jackson.
MJ accused him to be part of those who sank his carreer.
He (MJ) was also supposed to be a partner for Dreamwork project with Steven Spielberg and he was angry they stole his idea of logo (the little boy and the moon) that he created few years ago for Neverland Ranch.
He also wanted to buy Marvel but something happened. (I don't know the details)

And the other point concerning a "conspiracy" is about Michael Jackson ATV catalog.
Some saying that Sony wanted it so badly and tried anything to make him sell it.
Michael Jackson said himself there was people after him. And that they were against black artists in particular.
He gave a lot of details but I'm not a specialist when it comes to american musical culture.

Here's a little part of one of his speech about what he thinks of the Medias :




So basically it's against black culture, black people being powerful and about using a black person to hide what other white people are doing.
I'm not american so I don't know what to say personnaly about that.
What I think is there's clearly a problem between the Medias and Michael Jackson who is always portrayed as a weird and bad person which i understand coming from a certain press (tabloïd) but from others supposed to be ethical it's strange.

So how can we believe the serious ones if they spreed the lies ? What about the other subjects, other people, can we trust them ? Of course I already don't believe everything i read or see but that's problematic in my opinion.

Jumi said:

I've had trouble believing the allegations too ever since LaToya Jackson made up "proof"... he hasn't been convicted in court despite almost all media turning on him. I don't know about a conspiracy, it's more like how unethical media like to make their money.

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Exaclty, coming from the Tabloïds is no surprise but from serious news paper/tv show it's quite odd.

Have you considered the possibility that Jackson is guilty and that he did molest those children?

Subduction Zone said:

Have you considered the possibility that Jackson is guilty and that he did molest those children?

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That's the thing. Everyone can accuse people of anything, but we need proof.

You saw i think what happened recently with Jussie Smolett the supposed "victim". Many people believed him, some supported him publicly.
That's normal, we tend to believe victims first. I watched the video, he was convincing.

The problem with Michael Jackson is that there was already two cases where the boys lied.
But of course I looked at the deposition (some parts), i watched the interviews of the victims, the first part (2hours) of the "documentary" etc
And I gave few elements about the different versions of the 2 new "victims" but there's more.
The question would be "why do you still believe them ?"

Pastek said:

That's the thing. Everyone can accuse people of anything, but we need proof.

You saw i think what happened recently with Jussie Smolett the supposed "victim". Many people believed him, some supported him publicly.
That's normal, we tend to believe victims first. I watched the video, he was convincing.

The problem with Michael Jackson is that there was already two cases where the boys lied.
But of course I looked at the deposition (some parts), i watched the interviews of the victims, the first part (2hours) of the "documentary" etc
And I gave few elements about the different versions of the 2 new "victims" but there's more.
The question would be "why do you still believe them ?"

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You mean evidence. "Proof" is a word that cannot be used in this scenario. And no, the earlier cases were not necessarily ones where the boys lied. In one case it appears that the family was bought off. I remember that one when it went down and how they had what you would call "proof".

Subduction Zone said:

You mean evidence. "Proof" is a word that cannot be used in this scenario. And no, the earlier cases were not necessarily ones where the boys lied. In one case it appears that the family was bought off. I remember that one when it went down and how they had what you would call "proof".

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I don't have all the details concerning the first case but I've read that MJ didn't want to pay them but was forced to.

"Evan accuses Michael Jackson of coming between “this family of June, me and Jordy”. However, according to June Chandler’s 2005 testimony at Michael Jackson’s trial, Evan neglected his son before Jackson came into their life, and Evan neglected his other two children after the allegations, who were raised by another man."

CHANDLER: Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not believe what’s going to happen to him.

CHANDLER: Beyond his worst nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more record.

I don't want to go into it much because it's very long but there's been many depositions, tapes etc about the subject : The 1993 Allegations

For me the father was just jealous because his son didn't want to see him and prefered to be with MJ.
And by the way the son didn't want to see his parents after that. Even in the 2005 trial his mother testified and said her son isn't spoking to both of them since 1993. (And the father killed himself few months after MJ death.) It tells a lot.
He also refused to participate to Leaving Neverland.
Each one is free to believe what he wants but i think it's more fair to at least read a little bit about the affair before saying someone is a paedophile.
My opinion.

Pastek said:

I don't have all the details concerning the first case but I've read that MJ didn't want to pay them but was forced to.

"Evan accuses Michael Jackson of coming between “this family of June, me and Jordy”. However, according to June Chandler’s 2005 testimony at Michael Jackson’s trial, Evan neglected his son before Jackson came into their life, and Evan neglected his other two children after the allegations, who were raised by another man."

CHANDLER: Michael Jackson — Michael Jackson’s career, Dave. This man is gonna be humiliated beyond belief. You’ll not believe it. He will not believe what’s going to happen to him.

CHANDLER: Beyond his worst nightmares. [tape irregularity] not sell one more record.

I don't want to go into it much because it's very long but there's been many depositions, tapes etc about the subject : The 1993 Allegations

For me the father was just jealous because his son didn't want to see him and prefered to be with MJ.
And by the way the son didn't want to see his parents after that. Even in the 2005 trial his mother testified and said her son isn't spoking to both of them since 1993. (And the father killed himself few months after MJ death.) It tells a lot.
He also refused to participate to Leaving Neverland.
Each one is free to believe what he wants but i think it's more fair to at least read a little bit about the affair before saying someone is a paedophile.
My opinion.

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Try not to use biased sites and you are far more likely to make your case. The article demonstrated their bias in the inappropriate use of scare quotes when it came to the word suspicions.

I do remember when Jackson was taken in for questioning by police and they photographed his private parts. That Jordan Chandler was able to describe his penis was rather disturbing. He was essentially paid not to testify. His family got $23 million dollars from Jackson and he refused to testify against him in court:

What’s known about Michael Jackson original accuser Jordy Chandler now

I think Jackson may have gotten off due to his wealth and that he was able to pay off people that he abused. Time will tell. These sort of charges are very hard to make, even if one knows that one has support. So far there are two new ones. Will any more come out? Will people that he paid off risk the money that they got from Jackson?