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The huge shift from Yeshua to the Christian Jesus Christ

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Many modern folks in the Western world are quite done with Christianity but yet many people retain special feelings for the teachings of Jesus.
However, the teachings of Jesus as found in the New Testament are not the teachings of the original Yeshua, but the teachings of the largely mythical Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ in the New Testament is a cleverly constructed projection of Christian beliefs.

Despite the heavy corruption of the original words of Yeshua, their original can somehow still be extracted from the New Testament by carefully looking at the two versions of the gospel stories in gMatthew and gLuke by sifting away the editing done by Christians revealing the original words in their original pre-Christian context.

One of the best illustrations of what happened in the huge shift from the teachings of Yeshua to Christian teachings is what happened to this important saying of Yeshua:

Original words of Yeshua:

Q 17: 20b-21
/ Luke 17: 20b-21 = Matthew 24: 26

20b The Rule of God does not come by observation [‘parateresos’]. 21 They should not say: “He can be observed in the wilderness, nor in the inner, secret chambers (of temples) [‘tameiois’]. For the Rule of God is within you! [‘entos humon’].

Christian edited end-products:

Luke 17: 20-37

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Rule of God should come, he answered them and said, The Rule of God cometh not with observation.
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the Rule of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].
23 And they shall say to you,
See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24: 26, 23, 26-27, 37-39, 40-41, 28

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



You can clearly see how the Christian authors made up a lot of stuff which they based loosely on things they read in their Jewish scriptures as well as on some other sayings they may have found in Q-lite (and aLuke also based it on what he read in the version already made in gMatthew).
The central mystic idea in the original saying has been abandoned and exchanged for the Christian obsession with the expected return of Christ Jesus. The Rule of God has been changed from something to be found through mystical practices inside the mind of the individual disciple into to some mythical future rewarding event when Jesus returns to judge everyone collectively at the same time.

So the big shift is from the original esoteric teachings of Yeshua to the largely mythical exoteric teachings of Christianity.
The shift is most clear in this one edited saying but can of course be seen throughout the editing of Q-lite in gLuke and gMatthew.

Once you've seen it, you can no longer 'unsee' it.
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
The Rule of God has been changed from something to be found through mystical practices inside the mind of the individual disciple into to some mythical future rewarding event when Jesus returns to judge everyone collectively at the same time.
It is both, Yeshua taught to practise the Dharma in the Synoptic Gospels; yet also that he'd return before Satya Yuga, Age of Enlightenment, Messianic Age, etc.

Since only those who actually follow the esoteric teachings of Yeshua get into the time to come; most of the others have just been misled to be simple in religion, and not seeking enlightenment as Christ taught...

The wise will shine (Matthew 25:1-13, Daniel 12:3).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
It is both, Yeshua taught to practise the Dharma in the Synoptic Gospels; yet also that he'd return before Satya Yuga, Age of Enlightenment, Messianic Age, etc.
The predicted "coming of the Rule of God" with the "return of Jesus" replaced the original teachings about the Rule of God. Yeshua never himself taught anything about a return or what would happen regarding his death (resurrection) or a return. This was all made up by Christians after the failed mission of Yeshua. Christianity is a far cry from the original dharmic teachings of Yeshua, they are only linked very loosely.

But without the real Yeshua at its centre, Christianity would never have grown so large. As small and as damaged (by editing) the collection of Q-lite sayings is, it still serves as a power house of inspiration. That is the power of real Tantra.
 
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Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
So, what is so special about this observation about the shift from the mission of Yeshua to the very different Christian religion?

Most of the more rational (no longer truly Christian) theologians see the creation of Christianity as expressed in the New Testament as a product of the religious imagination rather than as a reflection of historical realities (much the same way like I do).

The unusual thing here though is that I see the teachings in Q-lite as a product of a genuine (sadly aborted) spiritual mission rather than as just a collection of wisdom sayings dragged into the text. I see the sayings as the proof of practical deeply mystic teachings (with Yeshua as the Guru one with the Father) and not as teachings of a wandering cynic philosopher (as Burton Mack concludes) who was merely trying to live different socially (promoted by many members of the Jesus Seminar).
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Many modern folks in the Western world are quite done with Christianity but yet many people retain special feelings for the teachings of Jesus.
However, the teachings of Jesus as found in the New Testament are not the teachings of the original Yeshua, but the teachings of the largely mythical Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ in the New Testament is a cleverly constructed projection of Christian beliefs.

Despite the heavy corruption of the original words of Yeshua, their original can somehow still be extracted from the New Testament by carefully looking at the two versions of the gospel stories in gMatthew and gLuke by sifting away the editing done by Christians revealing the original words in their original pre-Christian context.

One of the best illustrations of what happened in the huge shift from the teachings of Yeshua to Christian teachings is what happened to this important saying of Yeshua:

Original words of Yeshua:

Q 17: 20b-21
/ Luke 17: 20b-21 = Matthew 24: 26

20b The Rule of God does not come by observation [‘parateresos’]. 21 They should not say: “He can be observed in the wilderness, nor in the inner, secret chambers (of temples) [‘tameiois’]. For the Rule of God is within you! [‘entos humon’].

Christian edited end-products:

Luke 17: 20-37

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Rule of God should come, he answered them and said, The Rule of God cometh not with observation.
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the Rule of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].
23 And they shall say to you,
See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24: 26, 23, 26-27, 37-39, 40-41, 28

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



You can clearly see how the Christian authors made up a lot of stuff which they based loosely on things they read in their Jewish scriptures as well as on some other sayings they may have found in Q-lite (and aLuke also based it on what he read in the version already made in gMatthew).
The central mystic idea in the original saying has been abandoned and exchanged for the Christian obsession with the expected return of Christ Jesus. The Rule of God has been changed from something to be found through mystical practices inside the mind of the individual disciple into to some mythical future rewarding event when Jesus returns to judge everyone collectively at the same time.

So the big shift is from the original esoteric teachings of Yeshua to the largely mythical exoteric teachings of Christianity.
The shift is most clear in this one edited saying but can of course be seen throughout the editing of Q-lite in gLuke and gMatthew.

Once you've seen it, you can no longer 'unsee' it.

Heavy corruption? why do you think this?

The Super Epic Psalms - How the Longest Psalms point to Jesus
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
By carefully comparing the more original text with the Christian parallels in gMatthew and gLuke, you can see how seriously the original has been corrupted (although some sayings more than others):

Q-lite: The reconstructed sayings of the tantric-mystic Master Yeshua


Jesus was not a 'Tantric master' He was the one the world was made from through to by and for... tantric master is too small

He is the one the scriptures point to with images of death and resurrection
like the bleakest Psalm 88 which is followed by more laments but a spectacular hope and declaration of sonship in Psalm 89.

26“He will cry to Me, ‘You are my Father,
My God, and the rock of my salvation.’

27“I also shall make him My firstborn,
The highest of the kings of the earth.

The Super Epic Psalms - How the Longest Psalms Point to Jesus
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Jesus was not ...
I know that as a Christian you have to believe the Christian projection of who Jesus was. But I see/experience Christianity as a largely mythical (and ritualistic) religion. The founder deeply hidden behind it though was a Tantric master and not a religious teacher. That becomes clear when you contrast Q-lite with the Christian gospels and other Christian teachings, as I did in the opening post.
 
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whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I know that as a Christian you have to believe the Christian projection of who Jesus was. But I see/experience Christianity as a largely mythical (and ritualistic) religion. The founder deeply hidden behind it though was a Tantric master and not a religious teacher. That becomes clear when you contrast Q-lite with the Christian gospels and other Christian teachings, as I did in the opening post.

There is no evidence that Jesus was a tantric master

Jesus was the one the world was made from to through and for. He's far more but tantric? I don't think so

From an interview with a tantric master:
R: The word Tantra is thrown around quite a bit in spiritual circles these days, and it often means very different things. I’d like to start off with the simple question: What is Tantra?
P: Tantra is the hot blood of spiritual practice. It smashes the taboo against unreasonable happiness; a thunderbolt path, swift, joyful, and fierce. There are many different types of paths. Some touch you like a gentle spring rain, but Tantra is the wild summer thunder storm churning with creation, destruction, bliss and emptiness. Tantra is a wild mother tiger – if you approach her with right motivation, right intention, and integrity, she’ll suckle you at her breast; but if you come to her in a sloppy way, she’ll rip apart your body-mind, eat you for dinner, and **** out what’s left.

Jesus was a God centered God glorifying messiah and I don't even see God in the picture painted here
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Many modern folks in the Western world are quite done with Christianity but yet many people retain special feelings for the teachings of Jesus.
However, the teachings of Jesus as found in the New Testament are not the teachings of the original Yeshua, but the teachings of the largely mythical Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ in the New Testament is a cleverly constructed projection of Christian beliefs.

Despite the heavy corruption of the original words of Yeshua, their original can somehow still be extracted from the New Testament by carefully looking at the two versions of the gospel stories in gMatthew and gLuke by sifting away the editing done by Christians revealing the original words in their original pre-Christian context.

One of the best illustrations of what happened in the huge shift from the teachings of Yeshua to Christian teachings is what happened to this important saying of Yeshua:

Original words of Yeshua:

Q 17: 20b-21
/ Luke 17: 20b-21 = Matthew 24: 26

20b The Rule of God does not come by observation [‘parateresos’]. 21 They should not say: “He can be observed in the wilderness, nor in the inner, secret chambers (of temples) [‘tameiois’]. For the Rule of God is within you! [‘entos humon’].

Christian edited end-products:

Luke 17: 20-37

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Rule of God should come, he answered them and said, The Rule of God cometh not with observation.
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the Rule of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see [it].
23 And they shall say to you,
See here; or, see there: go not after [them], nor follow [them].
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Matthew 24: 26, 23, 26-27, 37-39, 40-41, 28

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the wilderness; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.



You can clearly see how the Christian authors made up a lot of stuff which they based loosely on things they read in their Jewish scriptures as well as on some other sayings they may have found in Q-lite (and aLuke also based it on what he read in the version already made in gMatthew).
The central mystic idea in the original saying has been abandoned and exchanged for the Christian obsession with the expected return of Christ Jesus. The Rule of God has been changed from something to be found through mystical practices inside the mind of the individual disciple into to some mythical future rewarding event when Jesus returns to judge everyone collectively at the same time.

So the big shift is from the original esoteric teachings of Yeshua to the largely mythical exoteric teachings of Christianity.
The shift is most clear in this one edited saying but can of course be seen throughout the editing of Q-lite in gLuke and gMatthew.

Once you've seen it, you can no longer 'unsee' it.

The evolution of the faith is fascinating.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence that Jesus was a tantric master

Jesus was the one the world was made from to through and for. He's far more but tantric? I don't think so

From an interview with a tantric master:
R: The word Tantra is thrown around quite a bit in spiritual circles these days, and it often means very different things. I’d like to start off with the simple question: What is Tantra?
P: Tantra is the hot blood of spiritual practice. It smashes the taboo against unreasonable happiness; a thunderbolt path, swift, joyful, and fierce. There are many different types of paths. Some touch you like a gentle spring rain, but Tantra is the wild summer thunder storm churning with creation, destruction, bliss and emptiness. Tantra is a wild mother tiger – if you approach her with right motivation, right intention, and integrity, she’ll suckle you at her breast; but if you come to her in a sloppy way, she’ll rip apart your body-mind, eat you for dinner, and **** out what’s left.

Jesus was a God centered God glorifying messiah and I don't even see God in the picture painted here
I know that as a Christian you have to believe the Christian projection of who Jesus was. But I see/experience Christianity as a largely mythical (and ritualistic) religion. The founder deeply hidden behind it though was a Tantric master and not a religious teacher. That becomes clear when you contrast Q-lite with the Christian gospels and other Christian teachings, as I did in the opening post.

And of course as you chose the name Marcion I should point out that Martian (the pronunciation of Marcion the ancient heretic) believed the God of the Old Testament was brutal and different than Jesus. That is an error. Even Jesus says 'he who has seen me has seen the Father' They saw eye to eye. They were the same in essence and character. So Jesus claimed and so the apostles believed.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Jesus was not a 'Tantric master' He was the one the world was made from through to by and for... tantric master is too small

He is the one the scriptures point to with images of death and resurrection
like the bleakest Psalm 88 which is followed by more laments but a spectacular hope and declaration of sonship in Psalm 89.

26“He will cry to Me, ‘You are my Father,
My God, and the rock of my salvation.’

27“I also shall make him My firstborn,
The highest of the kings of the earth.

The Super Epic Psalms - How the Longest Psalms Point to Jesus

The original makes more sense.

  1. Torah, Ugartic Bible - Phoenicia
    Torah, Ugartic Bible
    Here the word rz is usually translated "help" but the Ugaritic word "gzr" means "young man" and if Psalm 89:20 is translated this way it is clearly more meaningful. Besides single words being illuminated by the Ugaritic texts, entire ideas or complexes of ideas have parallels in the literature.

  2. [PDF]
    The Psalms of David - IFCJ
    www.ifcj.org/assets/pdfs/FCH302_DAVID-PSALMS.pdf
    and structure of Canaanite literature from the city-state of Ugarit, for example, is reflected in 120 of the 150 psalms. Egypt and Mesopotamia also produced psalms.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
The original makes more sense.

  1. Torah, Ugartic Bible - Phoenicia
    Torah, Ugartic Bible
    Here the word rz is usually translated "help" but the Ugaritic word "gzr" means "young man" and if Psalm 89:20 is translated this way it is clearly more meaningful. Besides single words being illuminated by the Ugaritic texts, entire ideas or complexes of ideas have parallels in the literature.

  2. [PDF]
    The Psalms of David - IFCJ
    www.ifcj.org/assets/pdfs/FCH302_DAVID-PSALMS.pdf
    and structure of Canaanite literature from the city-state of Ugarit, for example, is reflected in 120 of the 150 psalms. Egypt and Mesopotamia also produced psalms.


I like how psalms 88 and 89 end the priestly levitical Psalms. They paint a great picture of the death and resurrection of Jesus. The ultimate sacrifice and help and a fitting ending to the priestly Psalms in books 2 and 3
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I like how psalms 88 and 89 end the priestly levitical Psalms. They paint a great picture of the death and resurrection of Jesus. The ultimate sacrifice and help and a fitting ending to the priestly Psalms in books 2 and 3

They were Canaanite psalms from the northern coast of Syria.
 

Jimmie Davis

New Member
Firstly Yeshua is the Hebrew Tertagrammaton name of Jesus. Jesus is a real person not a mythical made up person. First off Abraham and Moses prophesied about Jesus who is the Messiah. If you do research you would find that Jesus is a direct line descendant of King David. Also in Jewish history the Pharisses and Saducees wanted to kill Jesus. So to say Jesus is a mythical figure is to say those Pharisees wanted to do away with an imaginary person. Plus God himself bore witness that Jesus is the Christ in Matthew 3:17- This is my son the beloved whom I have approved. God himself bore witness and spoke of Jesus. Now the new testament some people disregard but it is called the Christian Greek scriptures because the language of the people started to change at that time due to the fact the Jews came under the Roman empire rule for a time and people started speaking Greek. So thats why it wasn't written in Hebrew Matthew to Revelation. Just as the english language has changed over time, we no longer read translations that say thee, thou, most people don't speak that way or understand it. So the new testament was written in Greek so that people of that tine can understand Gods word. Also the apostle Paul who was a Jew and a Roman citizen bore witness about Jesus. Before he became a Christian he was prominent in Judaism and used to persecute Christians, but he changed and boldly taught the truth about the Christ that he is the messiah, Paul was also raised in the rabbinic schools and was a Pharisee before becoming a Christian. So if Jesus was a mythical figure how could a prominent Jew and Pharisee like Paul who highly regarded the teachings of Abraham and Moses follow Jesus as a disciple of his if he wasn't real? Also angels from heaven gave testimony of Jesus when he was born in Luke chap 2 to the sheperds in the field, and the priest Simeon and prophetess Anna who was never missing from the temple testified to seeing Jesus. And after Jesus ressurection 1 Corinthians 15:6 the apostle Paul wrote under inspiration from God that over 500 people gave witness that they saw Jesus. So with Historical facts, Jesus lineage, eye witness accounts, Gods own voice from heaven, and the persecution he recieved from the pharisses and religious leaders. Their is far to much evidence to even say Jesus was not a real person. So don't speak unless you have factual proof because I got the evidence and proof that for a certainly God made Jesus Lord and Christ.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Welcome to the forum Jimmie.
I'm not a mythicist, I just have a different idea about who the historical Yeshua was than you do.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
So early Christians developed their own new syncretic religion and in the process they heavily corrupted the non-religious (tantric or mystic) teachings of Lord Yeshua.

In their mythical gospel stories they bluntly deleted a number of his sayings and parts of his sayings, changed the wording of certain sayings and embedded sayings in embellishments of their own thereby changing and corrupting their meaning and allround impact on the reader. By adding whole new (false) sayings of their own (put into the mouth of Jesus) they further diluted and obscured the original teachings of Yeshua.

Luckily we have different versions of the Christian gospel story, which makes it possible to see through all this corruption and allow for a reliable reconstruction of the original teachings. The teachings are not in any way Christian but still very universal in their practical spirtual-philosophical purport. They also reveal that the original mission was purely for itinerant missionaries only (without families).
 
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pearl

Well-Known Member
Despite the heavy corruption of the original words of Yeshua, their original can somehow still be extracted from the New Testament by carefully looking at the two versions of the gospel stories in gMatthew and gLuke by sifting away the editing done by Christians revealing the original words in their original pre-Christian context.

And exactly that is, was and continues to be purpose of critical scholarship. But 'Q' will always be a reconstruction, a theory with no extant sources.

You can clearly see how the Christian authors made up a lot of stuff

Its called adding narrative, situations which have Jesus arguing with the Pharisees, the Sadducees etc., within which the authors place those teachings of Jesus.

The central mystic idea in the original saying has been abandoned and exchanged for the Christian obsession with the expected return of Christ Jesus.

It is referred to as post Resurrection faith.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
And exactly that is, was and continues to be purpose of critical scholarship. But 'Q' will always be a reconstruction, a theory with no extant sources.

Despite it being a reconstruction, it's beauty and value far outweigh that of the other texts in the New Testament.
Its called adding narrative, situations which have Jesus arguing with the Pharisees, the Sadducees etc., within which the authors place those teachings of Jesus.

The narrative part however is unreliable and mostly mythical. But they did not only add narrative, they also added a lot of extra sayings and extensions of sayings of very poor quality.
It is referred to as post Resurrection faith.

Yes, and it is this type of faith that helps to obscure and deform the original teachings of Yeshua.
Christianity was a new religion, the teachings of Yeshua were not.
 
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