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The End of Men.

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one. Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one. Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!

I'm betting on the rise of the machine via true AI. I realize true AI seems impossible now but so did Flying a little more than 100 years ago.

I don't believe it will be that dramatic either ala Terminator. It will simply be realized that biological life is inefficient and unnecessary.

God could be a machine just waiting around for true AI to develop. Man will be of no more importance than the amoeba in the process of evolution.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It might be fairer to say that there is no need for sexual reproduction to sustain the human species. Personally, I would relish the day where human evolution removes sexual dimorphism entirely and all reproduction takes place in a laboratory. It would certainly do away with the abortion debate, on top of providing better developmental conditions for fetuses. It would also allow for far greater monitoring and control of population growth rates to keep the human presence on this world sustainable. On a societal level, it would further doom sexist attitudes to the oblivion where they belong.

It is quite likely none of this will happen, though.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
Life is, and is permanent. Life forms on the other hand... Thoughts and forms change and evolve. Makes things interesting.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
From one Eastern conception, the Kali Yuga, machine/dark age, where masculine principles dominate is replaced by the Sat Yuga, golden age, when the feminine energies predominate.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
From one Eastern conception, the Kali Yuga, machine/dark age, where masculine principles dominate is replaced by the Sat Yuga, golden age, when the feminine energies predominate.
Maybe. Don't care for it much though. Both energies are required. There is the energy that sails to the stars and the energy that nurtures. I'd like to see a nice balance. Seems like we might be getting there. It's always uncomfortable when the pendulum swings too far.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one. Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!

Baha’is believe the age we are entering will be less masculine and that the female qualities will be more prevalent and that’s the direction we are headed.

The world of humanity has two wings—one is women and the other men,” wrote ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, “Not until both wings are equally developed can the bird fly. Should one wing remain weak, flight is impossible.” (Baha’i Writings)

Rest ye assured! Erelong the days shall come when the men addressing the women, shall say: “Blessed are ye! Blessed are ye! Verily ye are worthy of every gift. Verily ye deserve to adorn your heads with the crown of everlasting glory, because in sciences and arts, in virtues and perfections ye shall become equal to man, and as regards tenderness of heart and the abundance of mercy and sympathy ye are superior.”

With regards to the Promised One awaited and prophesied in the texts of all Holy Books, we believe He has appeared.

Verily I say, this is the Day in which mankind can behold the Face, and hear the Voice, of the Promised One. The Call of God hath been raised, and the light of His countenance hath been lifted up upon men. It behoveth every man to blot out the trace of every idle word from the tablet of his heart, and to gaze, with an open and unbiased mind, on the signs of His Revelation, the proofs of His Mission, and the tokens of His glory.
Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. (Baha’u’llah)

Light to the World






 

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
I think there just need to be a WHOLE LOT LESS of us humans, less to bump heads with and more to go around. Less to beat the **** out of each other over. cut us down by 75% minimum. Chunk of the world's problems are solved.
 

Earthling

David Henson
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one. Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!

I think this is probably the one. What a painful and fruitless exercise.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It might be fairer to say that there is no need for sexual reproduction to sustain the human species. Personally, I would relish the day where human evolution removes sexual dimorphism entirely and all reproduction takes place in a laboratory. It would certainly do away with the abortion debate, on top of providing better developmental conditions for fetuses. It would also allow for far greater monitoring and control of population growth rates to keep the human presence on this world sustainable. On a societal level, it would further doom sexist attitudes to the oblivion where they belong.

It is quite likely none of this will happen, though.

Hopefully this isn't a tangent, but...
What new problems or problematic attitudes do you think this would introduce?
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
It might be fairer to say that there is no need for sexual reproduction to sustain the human species. Personally, I would relish the day where human evolution removes sexual dimorphism entirely and all reproduction takes place in a laboratory. It would certainly do away with the abortion debate, on top of providing better developmental conditions for fetuses. It would also allow for far greater monitoring and control of population growth rates to keep the human presence on this world sustainable. On a societal level, it would further doom sexist attitudes to the oblivion where they belong.

It is quite likely none of this will happen, though.

That....is quite a recipe for dystopia. Who gets to decide who can reproduce and who can't? Who gets to decide which genes get used for the next generation?

The 'greater monitoring and control of population growth rates' bit makes me want to hunt down the nearest 'prepper' and ask to rent a room. I mean, really; look how well that idea has done for China.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

Hmm...well, I would humbly suggest I'm not just a sperm donor.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

I think this is part of our problem, though. No-one is coming to save us. Not a Messiah, not some charismatic politician with soundbite messaging...much as it is with children, avoidance of personal responsibility leads to poor behaviour.
Please note, I'm not aiming that comment at you in any way. Just a general comment.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one.

Yes, but unfortunately it would probably take a massive reduction in surviveability. Right now, we are getting better and better at surviving. All of us. Regardless of traits.
A sudden event (nuclear war?) which would reduce the population drastically, and lead to conditions where certain traits were required for survival could lead to an evolutionary jump.
But...and here's the kicker...'evolution' can't be conflated with 'improved' in the way you seem to be thinking. Humans might evolve to extreme conditions by becoming MORE aggressive and primitive This would promote survival...but in what form?
No...I think we have to play the long game here, and take incremental steps. As indeed I think we do. But it can be hard to see the progress, and progress in one area is combined with fresh issues in other areas. Plus our location can play a massive role in how we see things.

Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

I know I'm coming at this from a different angle to you, but hear me out for a sec...
I'm a white, middle-class male. I was raised in what you might call a blue collar, nuclear family. Don't get me wrong, my home life was solid enough, but you get certain baggage with that upbringing. Boys can't show emotion, women are to be protected, and a general low-level attitude of racism and homophobia.

Happily, I've been able to unlearn almost all of that through my life. I still struggle with the showing emotion thing in general terms, but I'm very good at showing it around my daughters, at least.

Anyway, the point is, seeing women as complete equals by going through university with them (primary teaching, so lots of girls!), having girls who are friends rather than potential sexual partners, working with them and seeing that (just like men) they run the full gamut in terms of intelligence, humour, work ethic...these were the things that helps me move past any lingering thoughts that women needed my help, or that they were not fully my equal (if not the same as me, because...ya know...we're all different, etc).

Any thoughts that reducing women either via physical intimidation or by dehumanizing them by covering them up (and I get that this is not the only reason people wear the burqa/chadri) just seems completely antithetical to me.
Incidentally, I think women can sometimes dehumanize themselves by their choices, but ultimately I am only really concerned with it when outside influences do it.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!

Even were I to believe in a God, I would have serious problems believing in the Abrahamaic God, whatever the flavour. And if such a God did exist, I'd find it impossible to worship.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I think there just need to be a WHOLE LOT LESS of us humans, less to bump heads with and more to go around. Less to beat the **** out of each other over. cut us down by 75% minimum. Chunk of the world's problems are solved.

Apparently, a substantial part of world leadership agree that we should not be over 2.5 billion. Being old, I won't be contributing to the problem in a while.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Hmm...well, I would humbly suggest I'm not just a sperm donor.



I think this is part of our problem, though. No-one is coming to save us. Not a Messiah, not some charismatic politician with soundbite messaging...much as it is with children, avoidance of personal responsibility leads to poor behaviour.
Please note, I'm not aiming that comment at you in any way. Just a general comment.



Yes, but unfortunately it would probably take a massive reduction in surviveability. Right now, we are getting better and better at surviving. All of us. Regardless of traits.
A sudden event (nuclear war?) which would reduce the population drastically, and lead to conditions where certain traits were required for survival could lead to an evolutionary jump.
But...and here's the kicker...'evolution' can't be conflated with 'improved' in the way you seem to be thinking. Humans might evolve to extreme conditions by becoming MORE aggressive and primitive This would promote survival...but in what form?
No...I think we have to play the long game here, and take incremental steps. As indeed I think we do. But it can be hard to see the progress, and progress in one area is combined with fresh issues in other areas. Plus our location can play a massive role in how we see things.



I know I'm coming at this from a different angle to you, but hear me out for a sec...
I'm a white, middle-class male. I was raised in what you might call a blue collar, nuclear family. Don't get me wrong, my home life was solid enough, but you get certain baggage with that upbringing. Boys can't show emotion, women are to be protected, and a general low-level attitude of racism and homophobia.

Happily, I've been able to unlearn almost all of that through my life. I still struggle with the showing emotion thing in general terms, but I'm very good at showing it around my daughters, at least.

Anyway, the point is, seeing women as complete equals by going through university with them (primary teaching, so lots of girls!), having girls who are friends rather than potential sexual partners, working with them and seeing that (just like men) they run the full gamut in terms of intelligence, humour, work ethic...these were the things that helps me move past any lingering thoughts that women needed my help, or that they were not fully my equal (if not the same as me, because...ya know...we're all different, etc).

Any thoughts that reducing women either via physical intimidation or by dehumanizing them by covering them up (and I get that this is not the only reason people wear the burqa/chadri) just seems completely antithetical to me.
Incidentally, I think women can sometimes dehumanize themselves by their choices, but ultimately I am only really concerned with it when outside influences do it.



Even were I to believe in a God, I would have serious problems believing in the Abrahamaic God, whatever the flavour. And if such a God did exist, I'd find it impossible to worship.

I am white, and brought up in a very dysfunctional, racist, family and used to say to myself when I became an adult, "At least I know how not to live." I agree with you more than you might suspect.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I am white, and brought up in a very dysfunctional, racist, family and used to say to myself when I became an adult, "At least I know how not to live." I agree with you more than you might suspect.

Actually, I am not totally surprised by that. I wasn't making any assumptions about you (I don't know you well enough) but I've nodded along with enough of your posts to know we have synergy on at least some things!!
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
My reading gives me a very limited understanding of Genetics. I remember reading about 'someone' producing a fetus from two eggs, no sperm involved. And, I don't know if it happened for sure and how far they let it go. My own opinion is that the World could do with a lot less Testosterone and machismo, and I think the idea that humanity will survive in its current state is ludicrous.

I'm really open to the return, or coming of Jesus or the Messiah or some super being that will take everyone out back of the woodshed and deliver a good switching to everyone.

Maybe we just need Evolution to advance another notch, a BIG one. Perhaps it will be a significant reduction in aggressiveness in humans? So far, beating women hasn't helped, and making women cover themselves has actually just made matters worse.

According to some belief systems, Islam especially, it is women, not men who cause all the trouble with our feminine wiles and wicked ways. Hmph!
Oh yeah I always can go for some transhumanism.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Speak for yourself, but I love testosterone. Tired of men being seen as disposable. If a man cheered on the extinction of women, everyone would be up in arms. Way to devalue half of the species.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Speak for yourself, but I love testosterone. Tired of men being seen as disposable. If a man cheered on the extinction of women, everyone would be up in arms. Way to devalue half of the species.

Yeah...scary. When it comes right down to it, men are not required for anything BUT sperm, biologically speaking, and one man can contribute his DNA to quite a number of women without messing with the general genetic makeup of the species. The human race really doesn't require that many men.

It is this that men have been, rather successfully, attempting to hide for millenia. We've all been brainwashed. The problem now is that the women are...what...attempting to get revenge? I don't quite know how to describe this, but that's pretty good. Women are, in attempting to get 'equality,' are going for what men have had for all this time.

And men, if we are not careful here, WILL be the devalued half. Less than that. Men will be the devalued...tenth? A little known book by a sci-fi fantasy/alternative reality author, Wen Spencer, is all about what happens when a group of humans suddenly finds itself having fewer than one male in ten to twenty births. It does not result in power to the men. Check out "A Brother's Price." Quite a Cinderella story.

But men are humans. They can do almost everything women can do. We need to be more respectful of their contributions, their abilities and their sheer humanness.
 
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