• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Good Question

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The Eskimo could've easily ended up in hell even if the priest never told him about Christianity. The question ignores the doctrine of general revelation which is available to all and according to which the ignorant will be judged. Not hearing the message is not at all a free ticket to heaven (or an escape from hell as the question implies).

The priest has done the Eskimo a service because he now understands his position more clearly and has an opportunity to build a deeper relationship with God in his earthly life which enables him to do more good than he could have before since he now understands more about the divine plan for humanity.

Having mentioned the divine plan, the question ignores the fact that not all things need to be clear to us to be meaningful. God, as a perfect being, could make a command to spread his word to everyone without explaining the details of how such a task would be beneficial yet we would still be wise to do it for we can know that God, being perfect, would not do that which brings more harm than good.

The question fails to provide a good objection to Christianity.

That doesn't make any sense to me.
It also fails to address the actual point of the OP.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Religion isn't about instruction to kill, it's to stop killers from killing,
Do you blame the gun if used to stop evil?

Religions, christianity and islam in particular, are by their very nature extremely divisive, and because of that a societal poison.
It divides the world in followers and "the rest". It creates tension and implicitly promotes intolerance. In some cases explicitly (like in the case of homosexuality).

Such religions are only a force for good insofar as you ignore all the horrible bits.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So.... reincarnation, then?

No... they have the opportunity to accept the gospel in the next life if they would have accepted in this life had it been properly introduced.

False, and ... false.

True and True... It isn't all about sacrificing so you can kick back in the afterlife... you work hard in this life so you can work even harder in the afterlife. And you feel good because you are doing what's right.
To make people feel worse about the life they lead? Congratulations!
Sadly, not everyone will accept our Church. However when we reach out to those who will they are grateful that we preach. Those who don't believe it because of our fault will be unharmed, and those that do believe what we say in all seriousness ought to see about joining.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
:rolleyes:

I think it's telling how you seem to be doing your best in dodging the question.
Let's make it even simpler then.


Hi, I'm an atheist and I am aware of the christian religion and I do not believe any of it. Can we agree that whatever it means to being a christian, that I'm most definatly not one?

Is it possible for me to get to heaven if I die this instant, if it turns out that the christian religion is true and accurate?
A christian is someone who walks the good path. We are all christians because we walk the good path. When we walk the evil path we are not christians. All people by default are christians. An atheist who rejects God and Jesus means that he is a murderer. Are you a murderer? You say you are not christian. You lie. If you were trully not christian then you would be a murderer. It's simple. You do good things means you are a christian. You murder you are NOT christian. You cause misery, you are NOT christian.

Good deeds=christian

bad things=nonchristian

Priests want to control the masses to cover their evil deeds. They say that a christian is one who bows before god and Jesus. That's disgusting. Priests say that deeds don't matter as long as you say you believe in God and Jesus. That's wrong. An old woman I know has told me that priests are going to hell anyway.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Religions, christianity and islam in particular, are by their very nature extremely divisive, and because of that a societal poison.
It divides the world in followers and "the rest". It creates tension and implicitly promotes intolerance. In some cases explicitly (like in the case of homosexuality).

Such religions are only a force for good insofar as you ignore all the horrible bits.

Not to blame religion, brothers fighting each other, people of same faith fighting each other,
if religion is used badly then it doesn't mean religion itself is bad.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Even if he skin a thousand walruses or ride an orca, that wouldn't help.
Even if he builds a palace sized igloo, he achieved nothing.

Please refer to Matthew 7:13
since I am prohibited to quote a religious message in this religious forum :rolleyes:
I intend to comply with house rules

Again, you make our case for us: What sort of imperfect god created such a horrific and imperfect system?

That's tantamount to abuse. Deliberately created things such that, innocent get infinite torture, but the extremely guilty, with a last minute "confession" get infinite reward?

That's messed up.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Declaring a religion false must not be based on the whims and caprices of one who is irreligious..

Agreed. Which is why we require proof-- do you have any? Have your god show up and speak for itself. Using intermediaries isn't enough. In fact? It's immoral to do so-- as this creates Special Favorites, which is beyond unfair.
Declaring a religion false should have a sound basis and a set of religious standards.

Correct. So, get back to us, when you can have your god show up and make it's own case.

I do not listen to minions--- especially self-created ones.

Other than that how can one say this religion is false and this one is true?
.

See above. Have your god say, "Hi!" to the whole world.

Actually the scientist say we and the universe shouldn't exist but strange, we are here. Universe shouldn’t exist, CERN physicists conclude | Cosmos
.

That does not say what you just claimed it says. ooops!
Romans 1:18-20
.

Don't care what your claims are-- you have never actually proven they are legitimate.

I can quote Harry Potter books, and my quotes would be JUST as Legitimate.

Going back to Mr. Eskimo, he wouldn't have an excuse. Because if he did, it would be the same excuse that will be used by Mr. Bushman or Mr. Maori or Mr. Mongol.

So your god is Pure Evil, and Sadistic too? For creating these people without any possibility of Hope? They are born, live and die, JUST to satisfy the sadistic need of your god to fill his Infinite Torture Pit with bodies?

Whatever you may claim? You have imagined a very evil being here...
Everybody will face the music, whether you believe or not - it doesn't matter:

Hebrews 9:27

See? Pure-D sadistic Evil.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
That's not how christianity works. This is wrong understanding of christianity. When criminals want to exploit christianity, this dialogue occures.
So if someone doesn't know about god and sin they go to hell. Gotcha

Think this is fair?

.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
The question of God and sin are not congruent: one can be taught what Christ said or Bahaulluah said about sin but that could be very different from what God may think or even prescribe.
So, you're open to the idea that Jesus or Bahaulluah misinterperted what god said, or may have even lied about it. Interesting. Jesus the liar.

As far as my knowledge is concerned, God never ever said that there are sins. How could He if He was the creator.
Why couldn't he? After all, he did say he was the creator of evil. :shrug:


.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
So, you're open to the idea that Jesus or Bahaulluah misinterperted what god said, or may have even lied about it. Interesting. Jesus the liar.


Why couldn't he? After all, he did say he was the creator of evil. :shrug:


.
I go by first principles in the search for and the expression of truth. God created the universe according to sattvic, rajasic and tamasic (evil) attributes. It is for the individual to assess what is evil in this respect for God makes no assertions on what is evil and what is good. There are therefore no sins as far as God is concerned. We humans impose our own sense of morality. However, if one surrenders to God He facilitates the mission or dharma that one chooses to follow. He may even facilitate paedophilia which is regarded as truly evil by most human beings (I believe). So is God Himself evil?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I go by first principles in the search for and the expression of truth. God created the universe according to sattvic, rajasic and tamasic (evil) attributes. It is for the individual to assess what is evil in this respect for God makes no assertions on what is evil and what is good. There are therefore no sins as far as God is concerned. We humans impose our own sense of morality. However, if one surrenders to God He facilitates the mission or dharma that one chooses to follow. He may even facilitate paedophilia which is regarded as truly evil by most human beings (I believe). So is God Himself evil?

I assume you believe that someone who creates good is himself good, so I see no reason not to believe that someone who creates evil is himself evil.

.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
I assume you believe that someone who creates good is himself good, so I see no reason not to believe that someone who creates evil is himself evil.

.
I am assuming that since I am a very strong theist, that God must have created the universe (unless someone else created God and the universe). I find the universe a very interesting place as a scientist especially when I examine the world of humanity. So I ask myself why would God have to be evil in order to have created something that is so interesting, funny and imaginative. An evil God would not have given me the interesting life that I have experienced and witnessed and I have survived persecution of the highest possible order as a wicked thing to have had done to me. Humans also murder other human beings and molest them which I say are also evil, and yet there are those who live in utter compassion and love. Still others are neither good nor evil. It is a more imaginative creation than if all of us had been pious and loving, then there would have been no competition among human beings and no conflicts. We would all be living in a totally different world without any creative ability that is fostered through the creation of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic guna attributes.

From that you will surmise that I appreciate Nature and tolerate evil by my own defences that counter the persecution in the most appropriate manner. That is what God advised me to do, instead of moaning. And I have enjoyed it.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Not sure what you mean here.

So those who have never heard of god's sin/salvation program before they die are SOL. Kind of unfair don't you think?
.

What I mean is, eternal life is given to righteous people. If person is righteous, he can have eternal life. And person who has not yet heard of Jesus can be counted righteous by this:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:23

This means, no one goes to hell because heard of Jesus/hell, or didn’t hear of Jesus/hell. Reason why people go to hell is that they are unrighteous.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
All "normal" people have an automated understanding of sin - or "wrong" if you like. So the basis of the OP is wrong. But you all know that of course.
In Christianity being good or bad is meaningless. What's important is that one believes in the ressurection and asks for forgiveness, thus a good person can still go to hell and a bad person can still go to heaven.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
In Christianity being good or bad is meaningless. What's important is that one believes in the ressurection and asks for forgiveness, thus a good person can still go to hell and a bad person can still go to heaven.
Not that it's fair, but that's how I've always understood the program works.

.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
In Christianity being good or bad is meaningless. What's important is that one believes in the ressurection and asks for forgiveness, thus a good person can still go to hell and a bad person can still go to heaven.
Except that, according to the scriptures no one is truly good, all fall short of goodness, so all are bad in the sense that everyone does wrong to one degree or another. Any bad person can be forgiven and made a new creation in Christ, thus inheriting eternal life and heaven.
 
Top