If the infallible prophet claims that he is infallible he has to be infallible, because he's infallible. An infallible prophet couldn't possible be wrong about his own infallibility.
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Can Christian Preaching Get Any Worse than This?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
If the infallible prophet claims that he is infallible he has to be infallible, because he's infallible. An infallible prophet couldn't possible be wrong about his own infallibility.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope, that was not my error.
Firstly, to me the burden of proof is no more for myself because I have fully investigated the claims and teachings of Baha’u’llah.
We should investigate truth for ourselves, see with our own eyes, think with our own minds not the eyes of others so it would be unfair and unjust to yourself to not investigate this matter yourself directly not through my mind or my knowledge but by reading the Words of Baha’u’llah yourself and then deciding, as you should rely only on your mind not mine in investigating truth and that means directly, not through another person as the Christians do their priests who often lead them astray.
Baha’u’llah has written many, many things and you can read them and see if you think they are true or not.
You would need to read about His life and read His Words directly without anyone’s interpretation for it to be genuine research. That’s what I did and over a few years I came to the conclusion this is the truth but I had many questions.
If you are not investigating yourself and just want me to spoon feed you then I am nowhere near as eloquent as Baha’u’llah and you won’t get it in its pure form which would not be right. So if you really want proof you need to look with your own eyes. I have already removed the burden of proof for myself but how can I do it for you without it being not with your mind or eyes but through a third party?
Why should you rely on me for proof like the Christians do their priests? Go to the source itself and decide for yourself either way. I can only point you to the source but I cannot make you investigate. You know the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink? Lol.
The burden is yours to prove or disprove to yourself using your own mind, intellect and first hand research.
Original authentic and official sources
1. Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith
2. One Human Family | What Bahá’ís Believe
3. The Life of Bahá'u'lláh
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The same lane excuse I have heard far too many times. To me it is a tacit admission that you are wrong.
The problem is that your posts indicate that either your prophet was wrong or you are wrong about your prophet. He is not a valid source for you to use unless you can prove that he is right.
@Subduction Zone ... here's some more if you're actually interested. List of ExBahai related Websites : exbahai
Bahais will only recommend pro-Bahai sites, so I added some for perspective.
Thanks so much Vinayaka. I corrected the post above. I get complacent sometimes. Need to practice vigilance and mindfulness much more.
I can only prove things for myself not others. Ive done the research, put in the work and got a result but I can’t give you an awareness, a consciousness, Certitude and other spiritual values. You have to earn them.
Let’s say you asked me to prove to you what patience is. How could I prove it to you unless you experienced it yourself? Or let’s take chocolate, if you had never ever tasted chocolate would me writing a million word essay and having a billion people tell you it’s delicious give you the knowledge of what it tastes like?
There are some things only you can find out for yourself that I can’t explain to you because you have to experience it yourself so you could say you wanted proof chocolate tasted good but how am I to give you that proof unless you yourself taste it with your own mouth?
We are not the Borg where we are all connected in such a way that we all experience the same things so each of us in order to verify things have to taste it for ourself independently or just miss out.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Then you really should not make claims that you cannot support. One makes their religion look bad when they do.
Excessive proselytizers rarely figure out they're doing more harm than good for their cause. To me, this is a good thing. It's a red flag.
I direct people mainly to the Words of Baha’u’llah and Abdul-Baha because They founded the Baha’i Cause and are more knowledgeable about it than anyone else.
Yes I know. But the hidden information that some true investigators dug up tells a lot more. It's only fair that people get to see all sides of a story. Personally, I learned a lot more from non-Bahai sites. Baha'i sites were boringly repetitive about the glories. If I was moving to western Australia, and asked you to give me information about it, would you only tell me all the good stuff? I'd like to hear things like wild weather, crime rates, and all that too.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
So you say. So you remain in the 18th (or earlier) century.
Humans do. Proof? Back, not that long ago? Slavery was fine-- widespread all over the planet it was. Then? It wasn't. Where did the change come from? It was *not* from any Holy Books, all of which condone slavery in one or more ways. Nope--it came from collective evolution of human culture, as it progressed away from Bronze Age (and 18th century) ugliness, into a more egalitarian age.
It never-ever-ever comes from some idiot's "holey writings", especially not from one long-long-long dead.
Except? That your "source" doesn't actually do that, does it? Nope-- your source is fatally, and very ugly, flawed. Like all old books of superstitious nonsense.
Sure! Do you have any? No? Just as we thought...
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I gave you a "winner" because this is so beautifully written satire.
It's also one of the more poetic examples of the Bootstrapping Logical Fallacy that I've seen in awhile.
Nice.
Both the Bab and Baha'u'llah had slaves.
It's an accurate portrayal of what the Baha'is actually believe about infallibility. Incredible!
TheBannerofHomuraAkemi
Active Member
Yes there's a preacher by the name of Steve Anderson who preaches that spousal rape doesn't exist.
Well. Baha’u’llah calling for world unity & peace is hardly 18th century in my view don’t you think?. World peace and the oneness of humanity not to mention equality for all has not yet been achieved so what would you have us call 21st century if not the oneness of humanity and the unity of mankind and the establishment of a world civilization? Please trump the oneness of mankind if you have anything more profound to offer than Baha’u’llah. Because we have succeeded in nation building and Baha’u’llah envisaged the next stage in our development was world unity.
Humans define right, wrong, good, bad, moral and immoral too and world wars and nuclear weapons are exactly why they shouldn’t. We’ve almost destroyed ourselves and shed a lot of blood using our codes of right and wrong. Hitler used his version resulting in a holocaust. The Americans dropped nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki using their moral codes so yes humans do define moral codes but they don’t work and have produced war after war devastation after devastation, world poverty and such. Where is World Peace from human moral codes? On the other hand Baha’u’llah has raised a world community which, unlike the rest of the world just gets along. No wars. No civil wars. A community of people from all religions, races, nations and cultures having peace. Do you have anything better to offer? Do you have a world at peace to offer? Your world has race riots, drug addictions, alcoholism, wars, suicides and corruption, terrorism & such, rape and all sorts of maladies. Where is your human paradise or peace on earth. We have peace in our community but your world is full of nuclear weapons pointed at each other unable to make united decisions on things like the environment. Where is unity? Is this the best human versions of right and wrong can produce a disunited fragmented world prolific with groups of ‘us vs them’?
So while you may call this nonsense what are you offering that’s better than Baha’u’llah which is world peace and unity?
If world unity and a world civilisation is not innovative and needed for this age of disunity and fragmentation then what do you propose to be 21st century?
Baha’u’llah in the 1800’s said ‘the world is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’ envisaging an age of world citizenship without nationalistic prejudices & borders. Just one humanity united. So stating that we are all fellow humans is nonsense to you? This is what Baha’u’llah came for, to remind us we are all fellow human beings and appeal to us to establish unity and peace. So if Peace is so archaic to you, which is what Baha’u’llah is all about then what do you propose that is better?
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Riders
Well-Known Member
Baha’u’llah in the 1800’s said ‘the world is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’ envisaging an age of world citizenship without nationalistic prejudices & borders. Just one humanity united. So stating that we are all fellow humans is nonsense to you? T
WHat? What was that that you said about us having drug addiction and alcoholism and peaceful 1800s? Youve gotta be kidding that must be a joke.
I fell in love stupidly with the Billy The Kid Story when I watched Young Guns earlier. I had to do a speech on it for speech class at jr college. I read 2 very realistic books on Billy the Kid and the county wars of the 1800s?
First place alcohol was not made in a way that was safe back then and there were a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts. Coca cola you could get at the stores with the pharmacy and soda pops where you could order ice cream and get coke, that had cocaine in it. A bunch of people were addicted to cocaine back then. The cough syrups were all made with codeine in them and a lot of folks were addicted to that.
Billy the kid did not drink or take drugs. But he committed a murder in his youth days that police knew about , he was defending himself at a bar booth a guy was picking on him and he shot him but no investigation because hey murder was basically legal then.
He killed a few people that he never got investigated.It was a violent dangerous society, Yes religion was on the rise and many new denominations like The 7th Day Adventists and the Bahia's were on the rise. But a lot of murders took place without being punished.
When county wars broke out the sheriffs and other law men jumped in to get Billy,the way were probably looking for him before that. The rich evil Sheriff Brady and his bunch would move into a county and only they're people could make any money they bullied every other business out, so people stayed poor and starved to death so wars county wars broke out.
There were also tons of prostitutes then a lot of sex addiction. Billy himself did not like white American women but when he'd go to Mexico he liked Hispanic chicks and had a bunch of Hispanic girlfriends, weather or not he was addicted to sex I don;t know he could have been.
He had off spring though who lived after he was killed.
Anyways, no the 1800s was not a sweet peaceful innocents era at all, there was tons of drug and alcohol addiction and sex addiction murder wars everything.We must not forget the Cival war!
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
You do not want your use of fallacies pointed out.
In fact, you claim that pointing out fallacies is somehow admitting no counter argument when the fact is a fallacy is not an argument to begin with.
Yet here you are...
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Interesting.
So your religion required you to ignore reality?
Because same sex marriage is a real thing.