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I have some deep question about God, help!

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Maximilian said:
On the other hand, Jehovah hides his truth from the eyes of those who are stubborn or rebellious, letting “their eyes become darkened.” (Romans 11:8-10; Luke 19:42) “They have [literal] eyes, but they cannot see [spiritually].”—Jeremiah 5:21; Isaiah 59:10.

For such God's actions are unknowable . . ..
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God's actions are unknowable to anyone.

Manifestations of God receive communication from God and that is all we know about God's actions.

You like other Christians will never relinquish Christianity because it is too emotionally comforting to you. It does not matter if it is the truth, it is all about what is comforting, what works for you.

Christianity is all about having a personal relationship with God and that is selfish.
Christianity has nothing to offer the world, emotional comfort is not what the world needs. The world needs the Divine and infallible Physician, Baha'u'llah, and what He brought to cure the ills of this age.

“We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Trailblazer said:
I did not assume God exists BEFORE I looked at Baha’u’llah. The only evidence that God exists are the Messengers of God, what Baha’is normally refer to as Manifestations of God. Other than them, there is no reason to believe that God exists...
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So, there is no reason at all to think a god exists.

Trailblazer said:
...whereas there are no other possible explanations for the Messengers of God and what they were able to accomplish, and the effect they have had upon humanity. They accomplished what no ordinary man has ever accomplished.
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Is this even serious? People have believed in all sorts of gods - thousands of them: Godchecker. All of them must have started with some people who thought they knew (or thought it in there interest to pretend). They cannot all be about the same god, even if we stretch absurdly optimistic credulity to breaking point.

Trailblazer said:
Unless God used His power to override human free will choices there would be no way to prevent corruption of the messages.
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Your claim about your religion not having been corrupted would seem to suggest otherwise. But it's daft anyway. An omnipotent could have cast its message in solid diamond tablets, miles across. It could have had its message miraculously re-appear, uncorrupted in any form it chose.

The free will argument is totally undermined by the random nature of the message delivery anyway. Most people just accept the faith they were brought up in.

Trailblazer said:
Here is the reason:

“The greatest bestowal of God in the world of humanity is religion; for assuredly the divine teachings of religion are above all other sources of instruction and development to man. Religion confers upon man eternal life and guides his footsteps in the world of morality. It opens the doors of unending happiness and bestows everlasting honor upon the human kingdom. It has been the basis of all civilization and progress in the history of mankind.” Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í World Faith, p. 270
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I'm underwhelmed. The eternal life bit is an unsupported assertion and, as for the rest, well religion also confers upon people, prejudice, persecution, subjugation, conflict, war, barbarism, genocide, and death.

Trailblazer said:
If God exists and is Omniscient then God knows more than any human, because no human can know everything. I do not believe in a God that is not Omniscient, and I am not even going to entertain that possibility because it makes no sense.
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But you are using statements that start (explicitly or implicitly) with "if god exists..." in order to explain the apparent contradictions to somebody who is not convinced that a god exists and is asking why they should take the idea seriously. Do you not see the problem?

Trailblazer said:
There is only One God but ideas about God abound...
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There you go again.
 
Maximilian

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Trailblazer said:
The Bible is true, but the Christians have terribly misconstrued the Bible and created false doctrines.
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And so in spite of never, ever having actually studied the Bible you want to me to accept your belief as the truth. How am I supposed to do that?
 
Maximilian

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Trailblazer said:
I think you already know that JWs do not believe the same as Catholics or Mormons, yet all say that the Holy Spirit has revealed "the truth" to them. How is that possible, if they all believe something different?
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Obviously, then, they can't all be genuine Christians. So by what process could you determine with absolute certainty who the authentic Christians are?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Maximilian said:
God glorified his name in the ancient past during his dealings with the Pharaoh of Egypt. He said, "the Egyptians will certainly know that I am Jehovah when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them." -Exodus 7:5

Even to this day we remember how Jehovah God freed Israel from the clutches of the evil Egyptians!

Jesus prayed to God: “Father, glorify your name.” In response, God spoke from heaven, saying: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again.” (John 12:28)

Yes, there truly is no name, no God like Jehovah!
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thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain.

or

thou shall not take the Jehovah's name in vain.
glorified his name in the ancient past during his dealings with the Pharaoh of Egypt. He said, "the Egyptians will certainly know that I am Jehovah when I stretch out my hand against Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them." -Exodus 7:5

Even to this day we remember how Jehovah God freed Israel from the clutches of the evil Egyptians!

Jesus prayed to God: “Father, glorify your name.” In response, God spoke from heaven, saying: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again.” (John 12:28)

Yes, there truly is no name, no God like Jehovah![/QUOTE]
The name was known to many before the Israelites.


To take the Lord's name in vain, or as exclusive goes against what God is.

Isaiah spoke the truth:

Hear the word of the Lord,
you who tremble at his word
“Your own people who hate you,
and exclude you because of my name, have said,
‘Let the Lord be glorified,
that we may see your joy!’
Yet they will be put to shame.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Trailblazer said:
I think you already know that JWs do not believe the same as Catholics or Mormons, yet all say that the Holy Spirit has revealed "the truth" to them. How is that possible, if they all believe something different?
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Good question. Maybe you just need to go with what God has revealed to you personally. That's what I do.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Maximilian said:
Obviously, then, they can't all be genuine Christians. So by what process could you determine with absolute certainty who the authentic Christians are?
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A "genuine, authentic Christian" is one who loves God, who looks to His Son, Jesus Christ for salvation and who demonstrates that love through service to His fellow men. At least that's what Jesus said. He said that people would be able to identify His disciples by the love they showed to one another. He never mentioned any other "qualifiers." He never said that a person had to have a 100% correct understanding concerning every point of "Christian doctrine" to be considered His.
 
Maximilian

Maximilian

Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.
Katzpur said:
He said that people would be able to identify His disciples by the love they showed to one another.
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Correct! (John 13:34, 35)

And given how Catholics, Protestants, Non-Denominationalists, Born-Agains, Evangelicals, Baptists, Adventists, Mormons, Baha'i, Orthodox, Pentecostals, etc., etc. have been more than happy to slaughter those of their same faith in war it's obvious they're not genuine disciples of Christ.

So where are all the Christians?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
ratiocinator said:
So, there is no reason at all to think a god exists.
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Only the Messengers of God.
ratiocinator said:
Is this even serious? People have believed in all sorts of gods - thousands of them: Godchecker. All of them must have started with some people who thought they knew (or thought it in there interest to pretend). They cannot all be about the same god, even if we stretch absurdly optimistic credulity to breaking point.
Click to expand...
Mythical gods are not real gods. That is why they are called mythical. People have believed all kinds of crazy things over time but what “people” have believed over time is irrelevant. There is only One True God. Why would we need more than one God if God is omnipotent and omniscient? Think about it.

It is only important what YOU believe, not what other people have believed. It is our job to parse the Messengers/Prophets out if we want to know if they are legit. There are ways to do that.

“What then is the mission of the divine prophets? Their mission is the education and advancement of the world of humanity. They are the real teachers and educators, the universal instructors of mankind. If we wish to discover whether any one of these great souls or messengers was in reality a prophet of God we must investigate the facts surrounding His life and history; and the first point of our investigation will be the education He bestowed upon mankind. If He has been an educator, if He has really trained a nation or people, causing it to rise from the lowest depths of ignorance to the highest station of knowledge, then we are sure that He was a prophet. This is a plain and clear method of procedure, proof that is irrefutable. We do not need to seek after other proofs.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 273

It is a bit of detective work and one thing leads to another. All the Messengers are connected to each other since they all come from the same God, so one religion leads to another and builds upon it.
ratiocinator said:
Your claim about your religion not having been corrupted would seem to suggest otherwise. But it's daft anyway. An omnipotent could have cast its message in solid diamond tablets, miles across. It could have had its message miraculously re-appear, uncorrupted in any form it chose.
Click to expand...
What indication do you have that my religion has been corrupted? Detractors and conspiracy theories abound, and it is that way with every new religion because those of older religions seek to discredit new religions so they won’t lose their ground.

God could have done anything He wanted to but that is a moot point, because God didn’t do it. There is no real difference between casting the Tablets in diamond and having them written on parchment, as long as they can be protected and never changed. That has been the case with the Writings of Baha’u’llah; the originals exist and they are in a vault where they cannot be tampered with.
ratiocinator said:
The free will argument is totally undermined by the random nature of the message delivery anyway. Most people just accept the faith they were brought up in.
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That is true about most people but not true of all people. The proof is that most Baha’is were raised in other religions and then they became Baha’is later. There are some Baha’is who were raised Baha’is but not many on the middle-aged and older generation. People can change if they want to. Look at all the atheists who were formerly Christians.
ratiocinator said:
“The greatest bestowal of God in the world of humanity is religion; for assuredly the divine teachings of religion are above all other sources of instruction and development to man. Religion confers upon man eternal life and guides his footsteps in the world of morality. It opens the doors of unending happiness and bestows everlasting honor upon the human kingdom. It has been the basis of all civilization and progress in the history of mankind.” Abdu’l-Bahá, Bahá’í World Faith, p. 270

I'm underwhelmed. The eternal life bit is an unsupported assertion and, as for the rest, well religion also confers upon people, prejudice, persecution, subjugation, conflict, war, barbarism, genocide, and death.
Click to expand...
You are looking at what people do with religion, not at the religion in its pristine form before it becomes corrupted by misinterpretation and made into false doctrines. That quote was referring to what religion has the potential to confer and what it has conferred upon many believers.

Eternal life does not refer to the afterlife, it refers to a quality of life if being close to God, but that is another subject.
ratiocinator said:
But you are using statements that start (explicitly or implicitly) with "if god exists..." in order to explain the apparent contradictions to somebody who is not convinced that a god exists and is asking why they should take the idea seriously. Do you not see the problem?
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I said If God exists to you because it is hypothetical to you since you do not believe that God exists. But from my perspective God exists.
ratiocinator said:
There you go again.
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I believe that God exists and there is only one God.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Maximilian said:
Quoting anything from that is as persuasive as quoting Dr. Seuss, you do understand that, yes?
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I have no interest in being persuasive.

However, Gleanings is the Word of God written by a Manifestation of God, unlike anything in the Bible, which is just the words of men who were purportedly inspired by the Holy Spirit, something that can never be proven.

By contrast, everyone knows who wrote Gleanings and it has been authenticated. There is no comparison between that and the Bible, which cannot ever be authenticated.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Maximilian said:
Correct! (John 13:34, 35)

And given how Catholics, Protestants, Non-Denominationalists, Born-Agains, Evangelicals, Baptists, Adventists, Mormons, Baha'i, Orthodox, Pentecostals, etc., etc. have been more than happy to slaughter those of their same faith in war it's obvious they're not genuine disciples of Christ.

So where are all the Christians?
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I believe that Christians are found among all of those groups of people. I don't believe we can stereotype entire groups of people because a few of them have done some truly bad things.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Maximilian said:
And so in spite of never, ever having actually studied the Bible you want to me to accept your belief as the truth. How am I supposed to do that?
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I do not want you to accept anything.

The fact that I have not studied the Bible is irrelevant. I did not need to study the Bible because I was never a Christian. You are the one who needs to study the Bible, but if you are unwilling to study the Baha'i Writings you will never understand why your interpretation is incorrect.
 
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