Book of Revelation, what is it? Good, or bad? [Vote

URAVIP2ME · Feb 24, 2019

sooda said:
Some of the Psalms were lifted from the Poems of the North Coast Canaanites.

Whether one believes lifted from Canaanites etc, still Psalms 83:18 mentions God's personal name.
Abraham used God's personal name at Genesis 22:14
Moses wrote God's personal name at Exodus 6:3
Jesus taught us to pray that God's name be hallowed / held sacred.
Where the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH appears as in the Hebrew is where God's name stands.

sooda · Feb 24, 2019

URAVIP2ME said:
Whether one believes lifted from Canaanites etc, still Psalms 83:18 mentions God's personal name.
Abraham used God's personal name at Genesis 22:14
Moses wrote God's personal name at Exodus 6:3
Jesus taught us to pray that God's name be hallowed / held sacred.
Where the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH appears as in the Hebrew is where God's name stands.

Its NOT a belief.. They have been found at Ras Shamra.. and they are far older than the Pentateuch.

URAVIP2ME · Feb 24, 2019

sooda said:
Its NOT a belief.. They have been found at Ras Shamra.. and they are far older than the Pentateuch.

Could you please post Ras Shamra's Psalms 83:18; Genesis 22:14 and Exodus 6:3 from the Ras Shamra.

TransmutingSoul · Feb 24, 2019

URAVIP2ME said:
Whether one believes lifted from Canaanites etc, still Psalms 83:18 mentions God's personal name.
Abraham used God's personal name at Genesis 22:14
Moses wrote God's personal name at Exodus 6:3
Jesus taught us to pray that God's name be hallowed / held sacred.
Where the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH appears as in the Hebrew is where God's name stands.

I have found these are references to the Message of Baha'u'llah in the 'Day of Jehovah', where the 'Glory of God' will be known.

All Names are One in God.

Regards Tony

BilliardsBall · Feb 25, 2019

sooda said:
There probably won't be any third temple. When they tried to build on it was destroyed by fire and earthquake.

Jesus said to avoid the tribulation his followers should flee to the mountains .. They did.. Was Jesus lying?

Some people believe that the abomination of desolation was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes interrupted the temple sacrifices between 168 B.C. and 165 B.C. The abomination they point to is the pig Antiochus had offered on the altar in the temple complex.

Others think the abomination did come in Roman form in AD 70. The Roman armies were always an abomination because they carried with them idolatrous images of the emperor, whom they worshiped. And those armies brought desolation because their commander leveled the city and entered the holy of holies, defiling it.

I was at the Temple Institute in Jerusalem less than two weeks ago. They are not Messianic, but are towards Paul's statement that Jesus will in no way return until the second abomination of desolation comes--in the Temple.

Zealots fled to mountains, including Masada--I was just there also. What is your data that Christians fled to mountains in the 1st century? They seem rather to have gone worldwide to evangelize, often in cities, as in Acts.

The Daniel abomination is both the Chanukah-inducing Antiochus desecration and a second fulfillment. Again:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Antiochus did not sit on the Holy of Holies and say he is God.

BilliardsBall · Feb 25, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The 3rd Temple is not of brick and mortar. The promised Temple was Baha'u'llah and the Anti Christ was Bahau'llah's half brother who broke the Covernant.

This link is to the 'Tablet of the Temple', the Temple many wait to be built;

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 3-54

"...Thus have We built the Temple with the hands of power and might, could ye but know it. This is the Temple promised unto you in the Book. Draw ye nigh unto it. This is that which profiteth you, could ye but comprehend it. Be fair, O peoples of the earth! Which is preferable, this, or a temple which is built of clay? Set your faces towards it. Thus have ye been commanded by God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Follow ye His bidding, and praise ye God, your Lord, for that which He hath bestowed upon you. He, verily, is the Truth. No God is there but He. He revealeth what He pleaseth, through His words "Be and it is"."

Happy to discuss.

Regards Tony

Why then does Paul write:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

sooda · Feb 25, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
I was at the Temple Institute in Jerusalem less than two weeks ago. They are not Messianic, but are towards Paul's statement that Jesus will in no way return until the second abomination of desolation comes--in the Temple.

Zealots fled to mountains, including Masada--I was just there also. What is your data that Christians fled to mountains in the 1st century? They seem rather to have gone worldwide to evangelize, often in cities, as in Acts.

The Daniel abomination is both the Chanukah-inducing Antiochus desecration and a second fulfillment. Again:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Antiochus did not sit on the Holy of Holies and say he is God.

I am on my phone. Will post source information for you later or you can search for they fled to Pella.

sooda · Feb 25, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Why then does Paul write:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul died before the temple was destroyed and before the book of Revelation.

sooda · Feb 25, 2019

"The Christians in Jerusalem and the surrounding towns and villages, "in Judea ", availed themselves of the first opportunity for eluding the Roman armies, and fled to the mountain cityof Pella, in Perea, where they were preserved from the general destruction which overthrew the Jews.

Decapolis is derived from the Greek word meaning Ten Cities (deka meaning ten, and polis meaning a city). They were a group of cities generally located to the east of the The Sea Of Galilee and The Jordan River. Among them was Pella, the city to which many Christians fled just prior to the Fall of Jerusalem In 70 …

Matthew 24:16-21 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now-and never to be equaled again.

Luke 21:20-22 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written." RSV

Eusebius: "The members of the Jerusalem church by means of an oracle, given by revelation to acceptable persons there, were ordered to leave the city before the war began and settle in a town in Peraea called Pella." Book III, 5:4

sooda · Feb 25, 2019

In Matthew 24:21, Jesus says, "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." In this verse Jesus is referring to the event of Matthew 24:15, which describes the revealing of the abomination of desolation, the man also known as the Antichrist. Also, Jesus in Matthew 24:29-30 states, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory." In this passage, Jesus defines the Great Tribulation (v.21) as beginning with the revealing of the abomination of desolation (v.15) and ending with Christ's second coming (v.30).

TransmutingSoul · Feb 25, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Why then does Paul write:

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

It is in the way that passage is read.

That passage is the warning. This is what Baha'u'llahs half brother did. He claimed the station that was not his.

This event had to happen before we could know Baha'u'llah was truly Christ returned, note this;

"...for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs..."

The rebellion sparked the Declaration of Baha'u'llah in 1863, until then, only the close followers knew who Baha'u'llah was.

Regards Tony

TransmutingSoul · Feb 25, 2019

sooda said:
Luke 21:20-22 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it; for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written." RSV

General Allenby knew the importance of his battle to retake Jerusalem at the close of the first world war.

Jerusalem was taken in truly miraculous circumstances as General Allenby used biblical advice in that battle.

His orders when moving north to retake Haifa and Akka included the order to save Abdul'baha. Quite amazing how God works.

Regards Tony

URAVIP2ME · Feb 25, 2019

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
I have found these are references to the Message of Baha'u'llah in the 'Day of Jehovah', where the 'Glory of God' will be known.
All Names are One in God.
Regards Tony

Names in Scripture carry a meaning including God's personal name.
God's personal name is from the Tetragrammaton YHWH and the Tetragrammaton only applies to Yahweh/Jehovah.

URAVIP2ME · Feb 25, 2019

sooda said:
In Matthew 24:21, Jesus says, "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." In this verse Jesus is referring to the event of Matthew 24:15, which describes the revealing of the abomination of desolation, the man also known as the Antichrist. Also, Jesus in Matthew 24:29-30 states, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory." In this passage, Jesus defines the Great Tribulation (v.21) as beginning with the revealing of the abomination of desolation (v.15) and ending with Christ's second coming (v.30).

...and I find in the MAJOR fulfillment of Matthew 24:21 is the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9
In the 1st century's minor fulfillment the ' abomination of desolation ' proved to be the Roman armies in the year 70 when they destroyed un-faithtful Jerusalem.
The modern day ' abomination of desolation ' will also prove to be military.
There is No one person antichrist (why use a capital letter "A" when there is none in Scripture)
As John wrote any who are against Christ are antiChrist - 1 John 2:18, I John 2:22; 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7.
Just as un-faithful Jerusalem was the target in the year 70, un-faithful Christendom today will be the target.
Spiritual house cleaning will start with the House of God. Those 'professing to be Christian' but mostly in name only.
- 1 Peter 4:17
Thus, we are nearing the 'final signal', so to speak of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when the 'powers that be' will be saying, "Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

BilliardsBall · Feb 26, 2019

sooda said:
Paul died before the temple was destroyed and before the book of Revelation.

Before Paul died, he said "Do not be deceived, it will in NO WAY HAPPEN until the Antichrist sits in the Temple, declaring his godhood!"

He is:

1) referring to a future event
2) referring to something in the chapter that is yet (as of the time of writing) not revealed
3) a standing temple has to be abominated by the Antichrist, declaring his godhood

sooda · Feb 26, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Before Paul died, he said "Do not be deceived, it will in NO WAY HAPPEN until the Antichrist sits in the Temple, declaring his godhood!"

He is:

1) referring to a future event
2) referring to something in the chapter that is yet (as of the time of writing) not revealed
3) a standing temple has to be abominated by the Antichrist, declaring his godhood

There won't be another Temple according to Revelation

BilliardsBall · Feb 27, 2019

sooda said:
There won't be another Temple according to Revelation

1) There is a Temple, without which Jesus shall not Return
2) There is a 1,000 year reign, with a Temple
3) Revelation--The Heavenly City descends, God dwells with (only righteous) men, there is no need of a Temple as such

sooda · Feb 27, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
1) There is a Temple, without which Jesus shall not Return
2) There is a 1,000 year reign, with a Temple
3) Revelation--The Heavenly City descends, God dwells with (only righteous) men, there is no need of a Temple as such

The heavenly city is spiritual..

They tried building a third temple.. it was felled by fire and earthquake circa 300 AD.

sooda · Feb 27, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Before Paul died, he said "Do not be deceived, it will in NO WAY HAPPEN until the Antichrist sits in the Temple, declaring his godhood!"

He is:

1) referring to a future event
2) referring to something in the chapter that is yet (as of the time of writing) not revealed
3) a standing temple has to be abominated by the Antichrist, declaring his godhood

Paul died before the temple was destroyed.. Please post the verse where Paul talks about the "antichrist"... Over the centuries lots of crackpots have claimed St Paul was the antichrist.

The Abomination of Desolation was under Emperor IV Antiochus Epiphanes.. around 168 BC.. during the time of the Maccabean revolt.

BilliardsBall · Feb 28, 2019

sooda said:
The heavenly city is spiritual..

They tried building a third temple.. it was felled by fire and earthquake circa 300 AD.

Yes, I'm aware of the aborted attempt to rebuild the Temple. The Heavenly City is not a spiritual allegory, it is a real place, whose dimensions and shape (matching the rectangle of the Earthly Temple) are given in the scriptures.

Your interpretation issues have to do with taking literal scripture figuratively or allegorically. I adhere very closely to God's Word and Paul is specific, that Jesus will not return until Antichrist is seated on the Holy of Holies, blaspheming.

Book of Revelation, what is it? Good, or bad? [Vote

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